D1 schools that should have wrestling

Ohio we need more than 4 Akron and Toledo. Akron just reinstated baseball. Notre Dame Midwest how can they not have wrestling. South Clemson and Florida State would fit in great and make ACC a tough conference High school wrestling in Florida has gotten a lot better Auburn has wrestling history. Texas. Big 12 / Flowresting headquarters. West USC Oregon Arizona.
 
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MPhillips

Well-known member
I read an article from I believe 2018. The Iowa Hawkeyes after all was said and done lost $500,000. Penn State lost over $700,000.
There isn't an AD or 'school board' in all of college that wants to take on those sort of numbers.
There was talk of ND joining the B1G, they flat out said they would not add a wrestling team.
The ACC has become the second best wrestling conference in the country. It would make sense for the rest of the schools to pick up wrestling.
But it's Hard to sell a program to folks when the two best schools in the country consistently lose money.

Good post Redflag. Crimson had the correct answer. $

EDIT: I found the article, it was from 2017. Iowa had $577,719 in income vs. $1,570,460 in expenses. They lost a million dollars at the most popular wrestling school in the nation.
 
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bdhof

Well-known member
I read that many DII & DIII colleges are adding wrestling, men's and women's, b/c they don't give scholarships but gain student-athletes that pay tuition. Thus, the sport becomes a moneymaker, or at least it adds enrollment to small schools that are in need of numbers. A roster of 30 wrestlers who pay tuition ($20,000 or so per student x 30 = $600,000) might pay for a few coaches, equipment and some travel.

Top B10 schools are probably paying a million in coaches' salaries), whereas these small schools probably pay less than a hundred thousand for a head coach and less for assistants. Add in full rides for B10s and you get $30,000 or so per student (x 10 full rides) = another $300,000. So you might have $1.5 million or so in cost at the top B10 level (tOSU, IOWA, PSU).
 
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bdhof

Well-known member
Now a MAC school wouldn't be paying what a top B10 school would, w/ only 4 scholarships and smaller coaches' salaries. But they wouldn't get the attendance that these top programs get either. So revenue is very small and costs might still add up to half a million.
 

bdhof

Well-known member
And add Miami OH to your original list. Their program was at its peak in performance when they pulled the plug. But, as said above, money rules so they won't be adding wrestling.
 

darthmalice

Well-known member
I read that many DII & DIII colleges are adding wrestling, men's and women's, b/c they don't give scholarships but gain student-athletes that pay tuition. Thus, the sport becomes a moneymaker, or at least it adds enrollment to small schools that are in need of numbers. A roster of 30 wrestlers who pay tuition ($20,000 or so per student x 30 = $600,000) might pay for a few coaches, equipment and some travel.

Top B10 schools are probably paying a million in coaches' salaries), whereas these small schools probably pay less than a hundred thousand for a head coach and less for assistants. Add in full rides for B10s and you get $30,000 or so per student (x 10 full rides) = another $300,000. So you might have $1.5 million or so in cost at the top B10 level (tOSU, IOWA, PSU).
A lot of D3 programs are private and cost is north of $20k, some are $40k.
 
Here's an interesting link http://www.scholarshipstats.com/wrestling.html

Tell me if I have this right.. Say I'm a blue chip recruit...a 3x State champ / Fargo champ from Ohio... and say Penn State offers me their average scholarship award of $23k with no additional financial aid (academic or need-based) and I agree to 73 hours a week 11 month commitment to training and school (and we all know it's more than that at the D1 level), with out of state tuition at $33k + another $10k for room and board, I'm still leaving school after 5 years (hopefully with a degree) potentially $120k in student loan debt as a "scholarship athlete" ....

Yet, the 3rd string long snapper on the football team pays $0.
 
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chidy

Well-known member
Now a MAC school wouldn't be paying what a top B10 school would, w/ only 4 scholarships and smaller coaches' salaries. But they wouldn't get the attendance that these top programs get either. So revenue is very small and costs might still add up to half a million.
MAC schools only have 4 scholarships? I was under the impression that they had 9.9 just like most of the rest of D1 wrestling
 

falcons53

Active member
Here's an interesting link http://www.scholarshipstats.com/wrestling.html

Tell me if I have this right.. Say I'm a blue chip recruit...a 3x State champ / Fargo champ from Ohio... and say Penn State offers me their average scholarship award of $23k with no additional financial aid (academic or need-based) and I agree to 73 hours a week 11 month commitment to training and school (and we all know it's more than that at the D1 level), with out of state tuition at $33k + another $10k for room and board, I'm still leaving school after 5 years (hopefully with a degree) potentially $120k in student loan debt as a "scholarship athlete" ....

Yet, the 3rd string long snapper on the football team pays $0.
Yep. And the last place football team in the Big 10 still makes around $30 million per year in "profit" that gets spread to fund other sports. Like what was said above, $$$
 

falcons53

Active member
For example, Michigan profited $60 million in 2018 for football only. That money, plus the men's basketball profits funded the rest of their athletic programs which combined lost nearly $48 million. Still gave the school around $12 million to use on facility upgrades, general fund, etc.
 

Latman

Member
Now a MAC school wouldn't be paying what a top B10 school would, w/ only 4 scholarships and smaller coaches' salaries. But they wouldn't get the attendance that these top programs get either. So revenue is very small and costs might still add up to half a million.
I don't believe the 4 scholarships is correct for MAC schools. They receive the same 9.9 as other D1 schools. Some schools may choose not fully fund a program (Duke, Ivy League), but typical MAC schools do based on what I know.
 

bdhof

Well-known member
I don't believe the 4 scholarships is correct for MAC schools. They receive the same 9.9 as other D1 schools. Some schools may choose not fully fund a program (Duke, Ivy League), but typical MAC schools do based on what I know.
I'm likely wrong on this. Back in the good ol days all MAC schools had 4. Sounds like things changed for the better.
 
I would like to see two schools from the MAC add wrestling so the end of year tournament can be a nice even 16 teams (I'm just weird like that I guess). Maybe not Akron since they just added baseball and that is an expensive sport (so I hear). Miami Ohio would be a great add, and why not Western Michigan since Eastern Michigan closed their doors in a still mind boggling situation (Looking at you Scott Wetherbee). It also would give kids from those states more options to continue their wrestling careers in state and not have to travel as far just for school.
 

Crimsonblooded

Active member
I would like to see all D1 with wrestling obviously, I hate the SEC with exception of Missouri, Notre Dame (they suck) if you know that story they are swindlers, and Texas Longhorns. I don’t watch any of their other sports on t.v. Oregon and Nike as well! I will not contribute to any ratings for their football teams unless they are getting beat by a school with wrestling on the tube! We all need to go to a college wrestling dual! I hope all you that commented have been to a college wrestling dual. I like going to a sports bar and requesting it on the t.v. during a college covered wrestling dual. That’s what I know to do as a wrestling fan.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
Title IX also causes issues. For every schollie on the men's side, add one for the ladies. It was the reason EMU killed men's swimming (perennial MAC champion), wrestling, softball and women's LX. I think the women filed an injunction citing Title IX and kept their sports claiming that EMU was going to use the savings on capital improvements for the football program. OSU uses its football money to support all 36 varsity sports and kicks money back to the school but this is a big exception. I know wrestling has taken it on the chin for Title IX and so has Men's swimming. An unintended consequence of a good intention. My brother got caught in the Miami wrestling cut. Luckily he was just a freshman and did not have much time invested in it at the college level.
 

bucksman

Moderator
From what I've read, at schools not in NCAA D1, they have been adding sports as a way to attract students who otherwise would not consider attending their school. Bolstering enrollment for these schools is good for their operation (it's why Lake Erie College went coed, and why when they went coed they added a group of male sports).
 

jarhead2

Active member
Central Michigan University offers 9.9 scholarships = MAC School
Bowling Green State University ended wrestling I believe in 1983 and University of Toledo ended their program in 1994. One of these school should/need to offer wrestling in my opinion.
 

Carcellis

Member

[TR]
[TD]Wrestling is an equivalency sport for NCAA scholarship purposes, so partial scholarships can be awarded to meet the limit per school.
For example, an NCAA Division II school can award 18 wrestlers each a 1/2 scholarship and still meet the limit of 9 per team.

Women's wrestling is not an official sport of either the NCAA or NAIA, the governing body for women's teams is the Women's College Wrestling Association.

Do the Math! The average NCAA Division I men's team has a roster size of 32 wrestlers but only a maximum of 9.9 athletic scholarships per team are available.
This means the average award covers only about 1/3 of an athlete's annual college costs.

* Average Athletic Scholarship is the average award per athlete for ALL varsity sports sponsored by the specific school. Some athletes receive full awards, some receive partial and many receive none.
Additionally some sports within a school may be fully funded, some partially and some sports provide no athletic scholarships.
Private schools generally have higher tuition than public schools and the average award will reflect this.

% receiving school FA reported in the tables below is the percentage of ALL undergrads (athletes & non-athletes) who received financial assistance directly from the school.
Avr School FA is the average amount of the award received by those students who received financial assistance directly from the school.

SAT & ACT percentiles: The tables below report the mid-range for SAT Math and ACT composite scores of the school's entering students:
50% of incoming students scored within the range reported, 25% scored at or below the low end of the range (25th percentile) and 25% scored at or above the high end of the range (75th percentile).[/TD]
[/TR]
 

OCEagle

Active member
I'm not an expert on the accounting used for athletic programs, but I am fairly certain the "costs" for scholarships are charged out to the various athletic programs. In fact, there is very little actual incremental "costs" for the tuition portion of those charge-outs. It is students occupying a seat in a classroom that would otherwise not be filled, or filled at a later date on a schedule. I don't know the costs charged out each year for 9.9 scholarships and how much of that is for tuition, but I would imagine it is a fairly large amount. There may be other costs charged to the athletic budgets with similar costs that are not incremental - or better said - actual cash outlay costs. There are other athletic programs that bleed a lot more money than wrestling, but are sacred cows and never get challenged.

Toledo should have a wrestling program - because of their deep tradition in the sport that has been dying off slowly since the days of Joe Scalzo and many others. He established the Wrestling World Cup and it was held for many years in Toledo through to the late 80's.
 
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brianwr112

Active member
I would love to see Kentucky add wrestling. They have more money coming in than ever. The sport's really growing in the state. Maybe join the MAC?
 
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