D1 Canton

Mackinbiner

Well-known member
1) For starters, Massillon's own head coach voted Hoover the 5th seed, so he must see something in them. Incidentally, Massillon's head coach also voted Jackson 9th and Dover 10th.

2) I don't see much difference from the 4th to 9th teams in this draw. Those teams could play each other as much they want, and I'm not sold any team in that grouping would dominate any of the others in that same grouping.

3) As a collection, the coaches didn't see much difference between Hoover, Wooster, and Massillon. Only 8 voting pts. separated the 5th and 7th seeds before dropping everyone's highest and lowest point value. Even the non-Fed coaches were split on which team they felt was the best of Hoover, Wooster, and Massillon. The pecking order by non-Fed coaches was:
Alliance - Massillon, Hoover, Wooster
Fitch - Wooster, Hoover, Massillon
Boardman - Wooster, Hoover, Massillon
Dover - Wooster, Massillon, Hoover
Massillon - Hoover, Massillon, Wooster
Wooster - Wooster, Massillon, Hoover
Among Fed coaches, all but GlenOak voted Hoover ahead of Massillon and Wooster. GlenOak voted Massillon, Wooster, Hoover. Of those 6 Feds that had Hoover ahead of Massillon, McKinley was the only one that voted Wooster ahead of Massillon.

4) Hoover's only losses in the last 10 games have come against McKinley 2x and Green, the top 2 seeds in this draw. The losses to McKinley were by 5 pts. and 2 pts. Green is the only team to defeat Hoover by double digits this season. Hoover has a bad loss to Louisville on the card, but it was by 2 pts. instead of by 22 pts. Hoover's loss to Perry was by 1pt. and not 12 pts. Hoover has a pair of losses to McKinley but neither was by 15 pts. Hoover has shown they can play with anybody in this draw but Green. That's worth something when so many teams look to be on the same level. Their 20+ point win over Alliance and 30+ point win over Perry within the last week before the votes were submitted likely resonated with the coaches.

5) There's not much basis for a comparison between Wooster and Hoover. The closest thing we have at the time of the voting is Hoover's 16 pt. win over Mansfield vs. Wooster's 3 pt. win and 2 win over the Tygers. Also, Wooster is dogged by the same scheduling situation that is dogging Dover and Alliance. Big surprise, people generally vote for what they've heard of, as long as what they don't have an unfavorable opinion of what they've heard of.

I don't know if the coaches got it right or not, but I can see what they might have been looking at when trying to decide who should be the 5th seed.
Excellent research and it's great to know that it's from a source that can be trusted.
Yappi at its finest.
 

bass10

Well-known member
Very good “analysis” Elpapil but get your facts straight. 1) Perry wouldnt re-up with Wooster after gettting beat 2 years in row 2) only date McKinley could make work was 2-15. 3) jackson didnt want to play cause they are “down” 4) hoover only wants to have Wooster play in their tourny against someone else...but not play Hoover. It take 2 to tango. Dont dodge them and then blame them for not playing Fed teams.
Farnsworth, not sure if this is fact or not but as you know in basketball everyone is in. So IF Perry didn't schedule Wooster again there may have been other reasons, losing 2 years in a row doesn't really mean much in basketball where you don't try to schedule wins and I highly doubt your AD was told Jackson wouldn't play you because they were down? At any rate when my son was playing they had some very good teams, coach knew it and scheduled up. One year they beat 5 league champions in Norton (PTC), Nordonia (SL), Falls (yes Falls, WRC), Lake (FL) and the fifth escapes me. My point is theres more than scheduling the FL, if you have a strong team you can put some effort in and schedule up, don't blame it on the FL.
 

Mr. General

Active member
Trust me, the people in Wooster knew a low seed was coming. The writing has been on the wall for years for non-fed teams. For the teams discussed above, I find the following amazing. Dover not only gets a very low seed, but also has to travel. Wooster, Alliance, Boardman all in the same Sectional Pod, so only one could make it to District play. Hoover steals the 5th Seed, and gets rewarded with 12 seed Lake (who should've been the 13th) in order to try and save face with that move. FL Coaches will look ridiculous if Lake pulls the upset, because Fitch probably would've for sure.
 

bass10

Well-known member
Trust me, the people in Wooster knew a low seed was coming. The writing has been on the wall for years for non-fed teams. For the teams discussed above, I find the following amazing. Dover not only gets a very low seed, but also has to travel. Wooster, Alliance, Boardman all in the same Sectional Pod, so only one could make it to District play. Hoover steals the 5th Seed, and gets rewarded with 12 seed Lake (who should've been the 13th) in order to try and save face with that move. FL Coaches will look ridiculous if Lake pulls the upset, because Fitch probably would've for sure.
Fitch historically doesn't do well come tourney time. Even when they are pretty good. Agree Hoover should not have been the 5th seed but highly doubt Fitch would've beat Hoover. Also would be very shocked if Lake beats anybody but one game and things can happen.
 

ohiopup

Well-known member
Not sure but I do know for a fact Green and Lake used to play at Alliance or in Copley. No reason they can't reasonably split the league up.
Others schools may complain to the District....

---

They sort of tried that...

Remember in 2014 and 2015 the NEO Board went to 'Blended Districts'
Combining Canton and Copley and Euclid and Solon.

2014 District Title games
Canton = Jackson 54 / 49 Timken
Copley = Lake 58 / Medina 40

2015 District Title games
Copley = Medina 45 / 43 Jackson
Canton = Lake 54 / 41 Green

Not only that in previous years they have assigned on occasional
FL teams to other Districts

IE: 2013
Canton = Timken 38 / 36 Barberton
Alliance = Hoover 51 / Lake 49

----

On Dover: The Tornadoes are a border line school big D-2 or small D-1;
a lot of where they fall is dependent on other small D-1 schools dropping
and/or how many new D-4 (NEW) start-ups (private ~ charter) decide to start
basketball programs.

----


These are the people that decide ~ who, what, where, when, and why; when it comes to
NEO District events. (Remember HQ OHSAA~Columbus : runs the Regionals and Finals)

The NEO OHSAA District Board...

- Brian Banfield, Athletic Administrator / Poland Local Schools (Class AA Rep)
- Jeff Cassella, Athletic Administrator / Mentor High School (Class AAA Rep)
- Andy Jalwan, Athletic Director / Copley High School (Class AAA Rep)
- Rocco Nero, Superintendent / Southington Local Schools (Class A Rep)
- Dr. William R. Nye Jr., Superintendent / Grand Valley Local, Orwell (Class A Rep)
- Randy Tevepaugh, Athletic Administrator / Streetsboro High School (Class AA Rep)
- Sean Jackson, Athletic Director / Lakewood High School (Ethnic Minority Rep)
- Rhonda Rickelman, Director Aux.Programming / Gates Mills Gilmour Academy (Female Rep)
- Kerschbaum, Athletic Director / Brookside Middle School (7th- 8th Grade Rep)
- Larry Acker Secretary
- Mark McGuire, Athletic Director / Solon High School (Treasurer)

:>---

SF
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Who should seed the teams?
That is a darned fine question. No appointed committee is going to be able to see every team play every game, so they'll be forced to search for minute details that separate a gaggle of teams that appear very similar, much like the coaches are doing now. BTW, I'm sure this appointed committee is willing to evaluate all of these HS teams out of the goodness of their hearts and not require any monetary compensation. There's only one way to pay for that - raise ticket prices at the sectional/district tourney games for a bunch of fans who are already displaying significantly less interest in attending HS sporting events at the current prices.

There are too many moving parts to be 100% sure the teams are seeded in the correct order. In the event that it does happen, people are still going to complain about the process and claim that the fix is in.
 

Massillon#82

Well-known member
Who should seed the teams?
A committee should be made up of 5-7 that are heavily involved in Hs basketball in this district. At the beginning of the year make up a schedule where each member has to see each team at least 5 times live, preferably 2-3 times before the new year and 2-3 times after. During the 3rd week of January that committee should start to meet weekly to discuss seeding and where each team is at that point.
 

thePITman

Well-known member
While I think the voting in this district was bogus, I, personally, think a committee is a dumb idea. People's lives are already busy enough. And I don't think the possibility of moving teams 2-3 seeds in a district tournament justifies the time that would go into selecting the committee and then the committee's time watching all the teams, etc. And even then, there's no guarantee that the committee either isn't biased or comes to a different end result than the coaches would have.

Ultimately, IMO, coaches' polls are usually the most accurate, assuming they vote honestly. I think the buddy-buddy voting system is just something that has always been and always will be, and there's very little we can do to avoid it. But given the alternatives (there aren't any viable ones), we'll just have to live with it.
 

Massillon#82

Well-known member
When there are 13 teams in a district and 7 of those are from 1 league it doesn’t matter what the other 6 vote because the league members control where teams go on the brackets. It isn’t important as to what seed you are but where you are on the bracket and who you play or might play is.
 

Mackinbiner

Well-known member
A committee should be made up of 5-7 that are heavily involved in Hs basketball in this district. At the beginning of the year make up a schedule where each member has to see each team at least 5 times live, preferably 2-3 times before the new year and 2-3 times after. During the 3rd week of January that committee should start to meet weekly to discuss seeding and where each team is at that point.
You can't be serious.
 

Mackinbiner

Well-known member
When there are 13 teams in a district and 7 of those are from 1 league it doesn’t matter what the other 6 vote because the league members control where teams go on the brackets. It isn’t important as to what seed you are but where you are on the bracket and who you play or might play is.
That is assuming EVERYONE is dishonest. That's ludicrous.

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
 

afwpatfire

Well-known member
A committee should be made up of 5-7 that are heavily involved in Hs basketball in this district. At the beginning of the year make up a schedule where each member has to see each team at least 5 times live, preferably 2-3 times before the new year and 2-3 times after. During the 3rd week of January that committee should start to meet weekly to discuss seeding and where each team is at that point.
While I do think this is a great idea, it’s laughable. It’s just not going to happen in 2020. Maybe video? Even then you are not going to be able to see all the teams 5 times.

I would do it, but I’m not seeing each team in person 5 times.
 

Massillon#82

Well-known member
That is assuming EVERYONE is dishonest. That's ludicrous.

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
Let’s see...up above we have already read 5 different people who say your wrong and that’s just on this site alone. This is a very small fraction of people.
 

Mackinbiner

Well-known member
Give us your opinions on how to improve something that’s been flawed for 3 decades at least. It’s ignorant to criticize someone’s option when you clearly don’t have one of your own.
Nothing is broken that needs fixed. Get over the butthurt.

Have you spoken with Coach Hose yet about his seed voting?
 

Massillon#82

Well-known member
While I do think this is a great idea, it’s laughable. It’s just not going to happen in 2020. Maybe video? Even then you are not going to be able to see all the teams 5 times.
The people in this committee aren’t going to be “forced” to do it, clearly these would be people involved in HS basketball that already go to many games to begin with. The thing to remember is for 7 of the teams you already are watching 2 teams at once for league games. This district is small it’s not like the teams are spread out from Columbus to Cleveland.
It appears as if people need to R E L A X
of course this will never happen because the “good ol boys” aren’t going to give up the right to control the brackets.
My point is how much longer do we have to sit back and watch the Canton D1 sect/dist ... fed league tournament.
 

krs1

Well-known member
That is a darned fine question. No appointed committee is going to be able to see every team play every game, so they'll be forced to search for minute details that separate a gaggle of teams that appear very similar, much like the coaches are doing now. BTW, I'm sure this appointed committee is willing to evaluate all of these HS teams out of the goodness of their hearts and not require any monetary compensation. There's only one way to pay for that - raise ticket prices at the sectional/district tourney games for a bunch of fans who are already displaying significantly less interest in attending HS sporting events at the current prices.

There are too many moving parts to be 100% sure the teams are seeded in the correct order. In the event that it does happen, people are still going to complain about the process and claim that the fix is in.
A committee should be made up of 5-7 that are heavily involved in Hs basketball in this district. At the beginning of the year make up a schedule where each member has to see each team at least 5 times live, preferably 2-3 times before the new year and 2-3 times after. During the 3rd week of January that committee should start to meet weekly to discuss seeding and where each team is at that point.
Starting just this year Florida started seeding their district tournaments using a computer ranking, such as the Harbins used in Ohio for football, don’t know how well it would work but it could be a different process.
 

Mackinbiner

Well-known member
My point is how much longer do we have to sit back and watch the Canton D1 sect/dist ... fed league tournament.
It will take as long as it takes to come up with a team that's better than the best team in that League. That's all that's needed. Maybe this will be the year.

I think your disdain for the Federal League is shining through.
 

Massillon#82

Well-known member
Nothing is broken that needs fixed. Get over the butthurt.

Have you spoken with Coach Hose yet about his seed voting?
That’s what funny is please show me in this thread where I once said that Massillon got ripped off ???
I actually love where Massillon got put on the bracket, they can rip Jacksin apart and then are able to play mck at mck.
Coach Hose is only 1 Coach he doesn’t have the control over where to put teams on the bracket like 7 together do.
 

Massillon#82

Well-known member
Yet his votes mimic those of the teams you're complaining about. Sounds like he's working with them in this great conspiracy. :)
Again when did I bring Massillon up at all ? Keep trying to turn it into a Massillon thing though, everyone else can see through your ignorance.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Well, I've already posted in this thread more than I should've. I see a ramp and a shark up ahead, so I'm gone. 2 wrongs may eventually make a right, so keep trying.

Good luck to everybody's team in the tournament. Later.
 
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