Club Ruining HS Swimming?

zebrastripes

Active member
I swam competitively in high school and the reality is that high school swimming is not the pathway to college swimming. All potential college swimmers are on club teams.

Not much different than basketball - the summer circuit is where all the recruiting is done.
 

grange45

Active member
Almost all club swimming has programs for very young athletes to get involved. Most high school programs have zero programs for these little athletes.

High school coaches need to start promoting the sport like the clubs if they don’t want to be ruined. Most clubs are doing it right: spark the interest at an early age. That’s the reason the athletes choose their club over the hs program. These clubs are invested in the athlete a lot longer than the hs program.
 
I swam competitively in high school and the reality is that high school swimming is not the pathway to college swimming. All potential college swimmers are on club teams.

Not much different than basketball - the summer circuit is where all the recruiting is done.
Times are the pathway to college swimming. Does club basketball require players to train with the club for the first half of the HS season? A very high profile swim club started requiring that this year.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
So here it goes: Swimming is a very unique sport in Ohio. It is one of the few sports in Ohio which allow the participant to practice with their club during the actual season. One just cannot swim in high school meets and swim in club meets concurrently. For example, right now most exceptional high school swimmers are going to Junior nationals. Last week was the USA open swim in Atlanta. One could not have started swimming high school meets and then go to Junior Nats. A swimmer has to wait till his US or Y meets are done and then he/she can cut over to swim high school meets. However, during the whole swim season, a swimmer can practice with his/her club. Why is this? Because of resources. Many high schools in Ohio do not have functional pools and have to rent time from a local Y or community pool. The number of lanes allocated is often insufficient and the high school coaches would rather have that space allocated to their non-club swimmers and let their club swimmers use their club resources. Also, clubs have more and in general better credentialed coaches and many high school coaches are former club or current club coaches so they know their club coaches work out schedules. Finally, the difference in club and non-club swimmers is significant. It would be difficult to hold meaningful practices for all levels of swimmers at the same time. If a club is smart, it incorporates the high school season into its training schedule to help develop their swimmers for the state, regional and national meets that occur in late Feb, march and April. And yes, you are correct, times get scholarships but very few high schools in Ohio have the resources or inclination to train their swimmers to meet the time requirements for college teams that are awarding scholarship money.
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
I swam competitively in high school and the reality is that high school swimming is not the pathway to college swimming. All potential college swimmers are on club teams.

Not much different than basketball - the summer circuit is where all the recruiting is done.
False
 

Doconc

Member
I agree with hypothesis that over the top club swimming (mason) is a threat to hs swimming

the club teams now keep kids from hs practice and meets until the season is damn near over

club never has the team spirit and cohesion of a good hs circumstance

iThe two can coexist but rarely do
 
I agree with hypothesis that over the top club swimming (mason) is a threat to hs swimming

the club teams now keep kids from hs practice and meets until the season is damn near over

club never has the team spirit and cohesion of a good hs circumstance

iThe two can coexist but rarely do

If you had to guess, what is the percentage of Cincinnati hs programs that make their practice mandatory over a club practice?
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Read my above synopsis Doconc. Most Ohio high schools do not have the resources to train top level swimmers. Many high school teams have basic rec level swimmers that they try to get through 4 lane practices. If you are a top level swimmer and don't go X, you have to work out with your club if you hope to make state.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
X has the best swimmers in all of southwest Ohio go to its school. They start out with the most potential. X is not developing rec swimmers into state champions. They might develop them into 4 time GCL champions but not state and nationally recognized champions. Get out of the OHSAA and swim against Boles and Mission Viejo and Carmel. Do what Iggy's is doing for its hockey team.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
Do what Iggy's is doing for its hockey team.
Iggy's still plays their "A" team in the OHSAA postseason so they are out of the OHSSA completely. They along with St. X swimming teams should try to find another way to wrap up their seasons against teams that can compete against them.
 
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X has the best swimmers in all of southwest Ohio go to its school. They start out with the most potential. X is not developing rec swimmers into state champions. They might develop them into 4 time GCL champions but not state and nationally recognized champions. Get out of the OHSAA and swim against Boles and Mission Viejo and Carmel. Do what Iggy's is doing for its hockey team.
Two years ago, X had two kids score points at State who were GCL swimmers for the first three years of their high school careers. One ended up being a two-time All-American. Last year, they had a young man score in two events, one of which was an automatic All-American time. He too was a GCL swimmer the year before.
 
The swimmers would appreciate it.
Who are you to make a statement like this? How could you possibly know what the X swimmers would appreciate? I can say with 100% certainty what they do appreciate - having the finest people in the sport of swimming coach them, in swimming and if life.
Iggy's still plays their "A" team in the OHSAA postseason so they are out of the OHSSA completely. They along with St. X swimming teams should try to find another way to wrap up their seasons against teams that can compete against them.
Why's that?
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Two years ago, X had two kids score points at State who were GCL swimmers for the first three years of their high school careers. One ended up being a two-time All-American. Last year, they had a young man score in two events, one of which was an automatic All-American time. He too was a GCL swimmer the year before.
No kidding. X has guys not making their sectional team who would finish in the top 24 in the state. My son has finished in the top 24 in the state in the last 3 years. twice in the top 16. He would have never made the sectional team. They come to X with that potential from their club teams. What I am saying is that X's coaches are coaching 20 swimmers who are potential state qualifiers. Most public schools are lucky to have 4. Don't get me wrong, X's coaches are phenomenal, they just start with lot more advantages than most if not all public school teams in the state of Ohio.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Who are you to make a statement like this? How could you possibly know what the X swimmers would appreciate? I can say with 100% certainty what they do appreciate - having the finest people in the sport of swimming coach them, in swimming and if life.

Because my son used to swim with a bunch of X swimmers on his club team. I talk to them all the time. That is why I know the inside joke about being a "4 time GCL" champ. I can guarantee you that they would rather swim against better competition. X should find it and their fans should quit bragging about being state champions and shoot for bigger and things like Iggy's hickey program is doing
 

Doconc

Member
What an backward take

sycamores coach was coach of the year last year and from the smack talk you’d think sycamore was state champs last year - despite being beaten soundly

why should x apologize for excellence?

maybe it’s someone else’s turn to win, right?
 
What an backward take

sycamores coach was coach of the year last year and from the smack talk you’d think sycamore was state champs last year - despite being beaten soundly

why should x apologize for excellence?

maybe it’s someone else’s turn to win, right?
Not only state coach of the year, but I also believe he is repersenting Ohio for NFHS national coach of the year. I think this is awarded in April.
 

swimmer24

Member
Not only state coach of the year, but I also believe he is repersenting Ohio for NFHS national coach of the year. I think this is awarded in April.
on a side note to this conversation what programs are coached by the same coach year round, club, hs, etc? hudson, ua, st francis, firestone, am i missing any?
 
Because my son used to swim with a bunch of X swimmers on his club team. I talk to them all the time. That is why I know the inside joke about being a "4 time GCL" champ. I can guarantee you that they would rather swim against better competition. X should find it and their fans should quit bragging about being state champions and shoot for bigger and things like Iggy's hickey program is doing

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Now we know you're full of crap. You make it sound like the X kids treat GCL championships like a joke. You weren't there two years ago when a sophomore came out of nowhere to win two events. A PCY kid, who you claim to know, did the same thing last year. Another PCY kid dropped a 47 split on the 4free relay and the team went nuts. Why diminish what these boys are accomplishing through your ignorance? You can't guarantee squat because you don't know jack.

I want to make sure I understand your hate for X - you want to deny high school boys the opportunity to swim at the Ohio State Championship meet because their team has won 40 state championships? Is that correct?

For the record, one X swim at the GCL was fast enough to qualify for state. One. No other X GCL time was even in the ballpark.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
Because my son used to swim with a bunch of X swimmers on his club team. I talk to them all the time. That is why I know the inside joke about being a "4 time GCL" champ. I can guarantee you that they would rather swim against better competition. X should find it and their fans should quit bragging about being state champions and shoot for bigger and things like Iggy's hickey program is doing
Now we know you're full of crap. You make it sound like the X kids treat GCL championships like a joke. You weren't there two years ago when a sophomore came out of nowhere to win two events. A PCY kid, who you claim to know, did the same thing last year. Another PCY kid dropped a 47 split on the 4free relay and the team went nuts. Why diminish what these boys are accomplishing through your ignorance? You can't guarantee squat because you don't know jack.

I want to make sure I understand your hate for X - you want to deny high school boys the opportunity to swim at the Ohio State Championship meet because their team has won 40 state championships? Is that correct?

For the record, one X swim at the GCL was fast enough to qualify for state. One. No other X GCL time was even in the ballpark.
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I am not ignorant and I am not full of crap and I don't call people names on the boards even when they act like entitled little children behind their keyboards. So, quit calling people names and act like an adult. Look, I think that you have misunderstood me. I respect the ST. X Swimmers. I respect their development and I respect their coaches. I respect their times. But what I want you and all the other Saint X uber fans to understand is that X has a program that has resources that nobody in the state dedicates to their swim program. They have swimmers that drive a very long way to be a part of that program. They have an Olympic size pool on campus that they have access to whenever they want and if they don't then they either got strong armed by the Keating mafia or they negotiated a bad contract. They compete against rec swimmers in small public high school programs or against kids that have to swim with their clubs to stay competitive because they high school teams do no have enough room in their pools for all of their swimmers. X has at least 7 or 8 coaches when most boys and girls teams in a public school share 3. Heck, they win the GCL with their fourth string swimmers. That is not a critique of X that is a reality that explains my point.. X swimming should stop worrying about the state competition and start swimming against the national competition.
Do you really think X swimmers are better than the Foster boys and some of their friends? If so, you are delusional. Carson will probably make the Olympics. Jake may make it also. I think some other teammates of Carson did well in the Nationals this past fall. If Sycamore had sent a team to state the same size of X's then maybe Sycamore wins state with kids all living in the Sycamore school district. Instead, X wins state with kids from all over south west Ohio including and up to Xenia. It is apples and oranges. So I will spell it out for you. X swimming is at a different level than every public school in the state and almost every private school (looking at you Saint John's and Saint Charles). And yes, I do think X swimmers would rather swim against Mission Viejo, Irvine, Boles and whatever Texas powerhouse you name. They virtually swim against themselves at states.
Oh yea for the record. My kid made D1 states in the same event his freshman, sophomore and junior year. He finished in the top 24 his freshman year and in the top 16 his sophomore and junior year. Each year he had a faster time and a better place. He would not have made X's sectional team. Like I said, X is in a different world than the rest of Ohio when it comes to swimming.
 
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Doconc

Member
If your reasoning is followed, any successful team or business should either disband or move up

apple should break up. The patriots should have had to sit out the playoffs
The Dream team should have gotten one point instead of 2 for a basket etc

you are bitter about st x success
Salty and sour and jealous

but u love sycamores heroic run to second place with mercenary swimmers!
 
If your reasoning is followed, any successful team or business should either disband or move up

apple should break up. The patriots should have had to sit out the playoffs
The Dream team should have gotten one point instead of 2 for a basket etc

you are bitter about st x success
Salty and sour and jealous

but u love sycamores heroic run to second place with mercenary swimmers!

I’m not from the Cincy area, where did all the Sycamore swimmers come from last season?

Fosters both previously enrolled at X
 

Doconc

Member
I have one last question- if it is so unseemly and unsportsmanlike for st x to dominate, is ok for the fosters to swim at state and dominate? If Carson is going to Tokyo, why did he swim classic or Lyons or senior meet or state? Isn’t that just beating up on the poor schlubs who don’t have his advantages like on line classes and out by noon? Training camp in Colorado Springs vs crummy old sycamore??
 
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