Club 2022-2023

Butters McSauce

New member
Vanguard 18 Gold roster according to AES

Parker Gantt
Cameron Hoying
Owen Huynh
Tochi Ibe
Brady Jones
Connor Kemp
Aidan Kolb
Daniel Latham
Owen Woolbert
 

Butters McSauce

New member
Not the best showings in Chicago for Ohio teams, outside of the 15s age group where both Attack and Phoenix did quite well.

18 Open - 47 teams
Attack - 27th (3-4 record)
Vanguard - 37th (6-3 record)

17 Open - 44 teams
Attack - 31st (1-6 record)
Vanguard - 41st (3-5 record)

16 Open - 47 teams
Attack - 27th (3-3 record)
Vanguard 33rd (2-4 record)
Phoenix - 43rd (2-6 record)

15 Open - 31 teams
Attack - 5th (4-3 record)
Phoenix - 5th (4-3 record)
Vanguard - 29th (0-7 record)
 

Hobie1Kanobie

New member
Solid reasoning for keeping the same boys on the same teams year after year like the girls...Attack 15 has had most of these boys together for the 3rd straight year. Just my opinion but I think it needs to be at least thought about instead of new boys every year...
 

Butters McSauce

New member
Solid reasoning for keeping the same boys on the same teams year after year like the girls...Attack 15 has had most of these boys together for the 3rd straight year. Just my opinion but I think it needs to be at least thought about instead of new boys every year...
Kids physically mature and improve at different rates especially during high school. I don't think what you are suggesting makes sense
 

Hobie1Kanobie

New member
Kids physically mature and improve at different rates especially during high school. I don't think what you are suggesting makes sense
True they do, but it works in the girls volleyball area. Plus it works in baseball and basketball around here as well. I am saying that you will lose some and pick some up, but the core of the team stays intact. Normally, when you are playing at this level you are better than just playing a rec sport.

So really don't think you are in the right as it works in other sports that have maturing issues as well. Clubs just need to keep more consistency in the teams and not have 8-10 new boys playing together each year or every 2 - 3 years.

I think if Cincy as a whole and for a bigger picture Ohio wants to try and compete with other states at nationals and the like consistency is key.
 

Butters McSauce

New member
Interesting thoughts. I'm not tuned in to the AAU basketball or travel baseball scene. It would seem that there is maybe 3-4 new players per team year over year for Attack and Vanguard. Maybe I'm off on that number? Not something I have really looked into.

Just at the 18s level for Attack and Vanguard

Bold are carryover players from the year before

Attack
Rings
Wheatley
Tombragel
Threm
Walsh

Monnin (Replaced Terrell, not playing)
Monnin (Replaced Stewart)
Samuels (Replaced Harvey)
Hagerty (Replaced Lanter)
Hill (No like for like)

Vanguard
Hoying
Gantt
Huynh
Jones
Kemp
Kolb
Latham

Woolbert - (Grover not playing)
Ibe - (Replaced Pung)

So when you don't include the switches for Terrell and Grover, only 4 players that were swapped out between both 18s teams. Doesn't seem like a lot to me. Feel free to show the other age groups, maybe it will prove your point better. I don't have that much free time!
 

Hobie1Kanobie

New member
Interesting thoughts. I'm not tuned in to the AAU basketball or travel baseball scene. It would seem that there is maybe 3-4 new players per team year over year for Attack and Vanguard. Maybe I'm off on that number? Not something I have really looked into.

Just at the 18s level for Attack and Vanguard

Bold are carryover players from the year before

Attack
Rings
Wheatley
Tombragel
Threm
Walsh

Monnin (Replaced Terrell, not playing)
Monnin (Replaced Stewart)
Samuels (Replaced Harvey)
Hagerty (Replaced Lanter)
Hill (No like for like)

Vanguard
Hoying
Gantt
Huynh
Jones
Kemp
Kolb
Latham

Woolbert - (Grover not playing)
Ibe - (Replaced Pung)

So when you don't include the switches for Terrell and Grover, only 4 players that were swapped out between both 18s teams. Doesn't seem like a lot to me. Feel free to show the other age groups, maybe it will prove your point better. I don't have that much free time!
I am saying on the same team not just at the same club or same level. Yes those have been players that have played at the club in previous years, but not on the same team together. So last yeas black 17 is not the same players as this years as they all didn't move black to black. Yes playing in the same club does help but staying with the same group as you progress in years is more my point.

Therm was Red 17 last year that's the point I'm trying to make is team continuity not club (that is not as important to my point) but team to team is what I am saying. Just like the girls, they don't normally move teams as they all move up to the next age group together. Just like in baseball and basketball most boys play on the same team and in the same club and move up age groups.
 

Butters McSauce

New member
I am saying on the same team not just at the same club or same level. Yes those have been players that have played at the club in previous years, but not on the same team together. So last yeas black 17 is not the same players as this years as they all didn't move black to black. Yes playing in the same club does help but staying with the same group as you progress in years is more my point.

Therm was Red 17 last year that's the point I'm trying to make is team continuity not club (that is not as important to my point) but team to team is what I am saying. Just like the girls, they don't normally move teams as they all move up to the next age group together. Just like in baseball and basketball most boys play on the same team and in the same club and move up age groups.
That's just wrong... Threm specifically was on 17 Black. All the players I bolded played together on 17 Black or 17 Kelso last year.
 

Falcon11

Active member
I am saying on the same team not just at the same club or same level. Yes those have been players that have played at the club in previous years, but not on the same team together. So last yeas black 17 is not the same players as this years as they all didn't move black to black. Yes playing in the same club does help but staying with the same group as you progress in years is more my point.

Therm was Red 17 last year that's the point I'm trying to make is team continuity not club (that is not as important to my point) but team to team is what I am saying. Just like the girls, they don't normally move teams as they all move up to the next age group together. Just like in baseball and basketball most boys play on the same team and in the same club and move up age groups.
Threm was on 17 black last year.
You absolutely cannot compare girls club to boys. It's not a like for like comparison.
Just add this to the list of bad takes Hobie has had on this forum.

Wheatley, Tombragel and Walsh have been on every black team since 15s I believe. Other players I recall from that 15 black team were Parker Moyer at MB who is nowhere near the dynamic level of either Threm or Monnin as a MB. Carmosino was the setter, but he was replaced the next year by Tran who hasn't played club in a few years. Harvey may have been their libero at 15s and he stuck with that team until this year. Lanter and Threm had several years as well. But you cannot tell me that keeping the kids from that 15 black or even 16 black team would be better than the current 18 black team. It's so short-sighted to even suggest that its probably not worth arguing.
 

VBFAN24

Active member
Interesting thoughts. I'm not tuned in to the AAU basketball or travel baseball scene. It would seem that there is maybe 3-4 new players per team year over year for Attack and Vanguard. Maybe I'm off on that number? Not something I have really looked into.

Just at the 18s level for Attack and Vanguard

Bold are carryover players from the year before

Attack
Rings
Wheatley
Tombragel
Threm
Walsh

Monnin (Replaced Terrell, not playing)
Monnin (Replaced Stewart)
Samuels (Replaced Harvey)
Hagerty (Replaced Lanter)
Hill (No like for like)

Vanguard
Hoying
Gantt
Huynh
Jones
Kemp
Kolb
Latham

Woolbert - (Grover not playing)
Ibe - (Replaced Pung)

So when you don't include the switches for Terrell and Grover, only 4 players that were swapped out between both 18s teams. Doesn't seem like a lot to me. Feel free to show the other age groups, maybe it will prove your point better. I don't have that much free time!
Totally agree. The 15's will, in my opinion, have at least 5 new players on their 18s team. Some kids who have already stopped growing will be replaced by players with late growth spurts or kids picking up the sport in high school. Talent wins out. Also, Ohio is just not a strong state for volleyball yet. The number of players committing to D1 and high D2 teams is very low compared to all the big volleyball states: Cali, Florida, Illinois, etc.
 

Falcon11

Active member
I am saying on the same team not just at the same club or same level. Yes those have been players that have played at the club in previous years, but not on the same team together. So last yeas black 17 is not the same players as this years as they all didn't move black to black. Yes playing in the same club does help but staying with the same group as you progress in years is more my point.

Therm was Red 17 last year that's the point I'm trying to make is team continuity not club (that is not as important to my point) but team to team is what I am saying. Just like the girls, they don't normally move teams as they all move up to the next age group together. Just like in baseball and basketball most boys play on the same team and in the same club and move up age groups.
Also - I don't know about baseball. But in AAU basketball teams change EVERY YEAR. Coaches recruit new and better players all the time to join their teams.

There may be more continuity in girls vball, but girls also mature earlier and have typically been playing longer so the likelihood for such big jumps in ability is smaller year to year.
 

Hobie1Kanobie

New member
What a short sided comment you have, keeping the same boys together as they move up in age is the best way to get very competitive it's still a solid way to get better as a team matures. Yes you will lose some and add some, but overall the core of the team is there. And you have to compare boys to girls, they have great success at the girls levels because of keeping teams together, there are more opportunities right now in girls but the boys side will come, you just need to be more team oriented and not player to see it.
 

Hobie1Kanobie

New member
Threm was on 17 black last year.
You absolutely cannot compare girls club to boys. It's not a like for like comparison.
Just add this to the list of bad takes Hobie has had on this forum.

Wheatley, Tombragel and Walsh have been on every black team since 15s I believe. Other players I recall from that 15 black team were Parker Moyer at MB who is nowhere near the dynamic level of either Threm or Monnin as a MB. Carmosino was the setter, but he was replaced the next year by Tran who hasn't played club in a few years. Harvey may have been their libero at 15s and he stuck with that team until this year. Lanter and Threm had several years as well. But you cannot tell me that keeping the kids from that 15 black or even 16 black team would be better than the current 18 black team. It's so short-sighted to even suggest that its probably not worth arguing.
What ever you obviously are an arm chair spectator who needs to learn a bit about teams. Come to some club and high events and see what having the same players year after year really means.
 

Butters McSauce

New member
Didn't I literally just show you that there were 4 players swapped out between Vanguard and Attack 18s? It doesn't seem like it's a real thing when looking into the numbers

I think you probably just have a very personal connection to someone that was swapped from a 1st team to a 2nd team. There is no shame in that, just use it as added motivation to improve even more
 

VBFAN24

Active member
What ever you obviously are an arm chair spectator who needs to learn a bit about teams. Come to some club and high events and see what having the same players year after year really means.
Can u give examples of BOYS VOLLEYBALL teams who have been successful keeping the same players together for years. Pretty sure even the Cali and Florida teams switch out players, and they are the gold standard in boys club volleyball. Not sure u will come up with much.
 

Falcon11

Active member
Didn't I literally just show you that there were 4 players swapped out between Vanguard and Attack 18s? It doesn't seem like it's a real thing when looking into the numbers

I think you probably just have a very personal connection to someone that was swapped from a 1st team to a 2nd team. There is no shame in that, just use it as added motivation to improve even more
Nailed it. I did a little googling and it looks like this person (Hobie) uses this username other places.
 
Last edited:

Falcon11

Active member
What ever you obviously are an arm chair spectator who needs to learn a bit about teams. Come to some club and high events and see what having the same players year after year really means.
Also - I don't need to justify myself to anyone, but I have coached boys and mens volleyball from elementary school through college over the years. I've been to boys club tournaments in Southern California - is that a good enough "high event" for you? The Cali teams switch players every year as well. Your argument just sucks, sorry.
 

TheDude

Well-known member
I'd like to add just a small addition to the conversation about keeping teams together and 'getting demoted' from top teams to second teams.

There has been MANY times where there was a player on the top team one year. Maybe the 9th or 10th player to fill that top team. A year passes and they were dropped down to the second team. I want to squash the stigma that its better for that player to be the 10th player on the top team vs the 1st player on the second team. Many times, that is what the player NEEDS. if he is on the second team, he will be THEE GUY. Volleyball is such a rep based sport and if you are getting more meaningful reps as the stud on a lower team, that will benefit the player in the long run.

Sure, it stinks for the parents and player, making them think they are 'not good enough'. That is absolutely not the case.

Believe me, I have seen it many times in the last few years. A few players I can think of recently were:

2019 - Nate Renneker (Moeller) Attack 15-Black to 16-Red
2020 - Ben Albers (Elder) from Attack 17-black to 18-red
2020 - David Maurer (Elder) from Attack 16-red to 17-gold

All three were the work horses for their respective 'lower' teams and improved tremendously because of it.

There are many more examples, but these just stick out in my memory.
 

Falcon11

Active member
I'd like to add just a small addition to the conversation about keeping teams together and 'getting demoted' from top teams to second teams.

There has been MANY times where there was a player on the top team one year. Maybe the 9th or 10th player to fill that top team. A year passes and they were dropped down to the second team. I want to squash the stigma that its better for that player to be the 10th player on the top team vs the 1st player on the second team. Many times, that is what the player NEEDS. if he is on the second team, he will be THEE GUY. Volleyball is such a rep based sport and if you are getting more meaningful reps as the stud on a lower team, that will benefit the player in the long run.

Sure, it stinks for the parents and player, making them think they are 'not good enough'. That is absolutely not the case.

Believe me, I have seen it many times in the last few years. A few players I can think of recently were:

2019 - Nate Renneker (Moeller) Attack 15-Black to 16-Red
2020 - Ben Albers (Elder) from Attack 17-black to 18-red
2020 - David Maurer (Elder) from Attack 16-red to 17-gold

All three were the work horses for their respective 'lower' teams and improved tremendously because of it.

There are many more examples, but these just stick out in my memory.
Great point!
 

VBFAN24

Active member
18 Black for Attack with a runner up finish in the power series yesterday, losing a tight match to Milwaukee Sting. Really strong finish for them after a disappointing showing in Chicago.
 

Outworker

Member
18 Black for Attack with a runner up finish in the power series yesterday, losing a tight match to Milwaukee Sting. Really strong finish for them after a disappointing showing in Chicago.
It's not where you finish, it's how you play for your teams level. Competition way better in Chicago, only thing comparable to that level will be nationals.
 

Coach #1

Active member
It's not where you finish, it's how you play for your teams level. Competition way better in Chicago, only thing comparable to that level will be nationals.
I somewhat agree/disagree when Academy who finished in the Gold in Chicago has now lost twice to Attack. I believe Fury went 3-0 day one as well and is 0-2 vs Attack. The draw can play a big part of finishes in larger tournaments.
 

Outworker

Member
I somewhat agree/disagree when Academy who finished in the Gold in Chicago has now lost twice to Attack. I believe Fury went 3-0 day one as well and is 0-2 vs Attack. The draw can play a big part of finishes in larger tournaments.
Academy got a great draw in Chicago. Those seeds will tighten up as the year progresses.
 

VBFAN24

Active member
I somewhat agree/disagree when Academy who finished in the Gold in Chicago has now lost twice to Attack. I believe Fury went 3-0 day one as well and is 0-2 vs Attack. The draw can play a big part of finishes in larger tournaments.
I also get what you are saying but I think anyone that watched the 18s play in Chicago would agree that they did not play well.
 
.
Top