CDA issues

Of course coachg feels that CUP going up and OE on a downswing. You and Bucky need your own thread for that one.

OE practices 2 teams at a time at 7 hills and River's edge. I can't imagine the number of goals being an issue for any club in the area as most drills involve technical and tactical elements that don't involve scoring.

Is anyone really questioning the quality of training at the CDA? In the end it's built around elite level girls (Affording better speed of play) going at it, with good coaching. The biggest advantage that allows those practices to be better than other clubs is the level of players practicing.

And in the, despite coachg's passive aggressive pleas, I'd argue that there's not much difference in the platforms of DA or ECNL. By U16 girls are interchanging clubs back and forth based on playing time and personal preference frequently.

Coachg you know that OE usually finishes in the top 25 ECNL Club standing because we have this conversation about every 6 months.
 

coachg

Active member
Of course coachg feels that CUP going up and OE on a downswing. You and Bucky need your own thread for that one.

OE practices 2 teams at a time at 7 hills and River's edge. I can't imagine the number of goals being an issue for any club in the area as most drills involve technical and tactical elements that don't involve scoring.

Is anyone really questioning the quality of training at the CDA? In the end it's built around elite level girls (Affording better speed of play) going at it, with good coaching. The biggest advantage that allows those practices to be better than other clubs is the level of players practicing.

And in the, despite coachg's passive aggressive pleas, I'd argue that there's not much difference in the platforms of DA or ECNL. By U16 girls are interchanging clubs back and forth based on playing time and personal preference frequently.

Coachg you know that OE usually finishes in the top 25 ECNL Club standing because we have this conversation about every 6 months.

It was not meant to be passive aggressive at all. I think enough people on here know I will just be aggressive and blunt when needed I don't need the passive part. If it came off as passive aggressive it was not meant to be. :blush:

I gave my opinion that OE is in a down swing based on many things that have been posted here along with the ECNL standing for 2018-2019 that are posted on the ECNL site and CUP getting stronger due to some changes they have made and many CDA players I believe will return to the CUP ranks. I also asked how do you or anyone expect OE to do better once the clubs that left the ECNL for the DA return to the ECNL making it even "stronger" than it was last year. Because many have mentioned that the DA is now weaker because clubs left it so that must mean by those saying that then the ECNL is stronger because those clubs have returned if you follow what they are saying. Across the conference OE is in they are finishing right at 4th place (4.14 to be exact) on average across all the age groups in the conference. Note also I have said that in some age groups OE is stronger but in other CUP is stronger. I still believe that OE is on a down swing as a club and CUP is moving forward. As I said I am sure that in a few years it may very well be the opposite way.

As for you asking if people on here are questioning the level of training at the DA or CDA - Yes, people here are questioning and even tried to get as petty as to say that DA only uses one goal and are limited to half a field which I corrected and so have you. I even said that like you did that a lot of training does and should happen without a goal.
 

Snooper

New member
In the end it's built around elite level girls (Affording better speed of play) going at it, with good coaching. The biggest advantage that allows those practices to be better than other clubs is the level of players practicing.
There is MUCH truth here ^^^. The only other way for girls to get the consistent speed of play that the DA kids are getting is to go train with the boys in their club.
 

coachg

Active member
There is MUCH truth here ^^^. The only other way for girls to get the consistent speed of play that the DA kids are getting is to go train with the boys in their club.
Or train / play with higher level girls or older girls. I disagree with your comment about training with boys.
 
OK, so we're back to OE vs DA/CUP. You're right about the 4.14th place, but in the last 4 or 5 years I've been watching OE they seems weaker in the U13/14/15 age groups and gets stronger for 16/17/18-19 age groups. I assume because that's when elite players start to gravitate to the ECNL platform. The older groups are 4 games into a 16 game conference schedule. Let's check in a couple months. The Cincy DA teams do seem to be doing better this year, I don't know if that coincides with the mass exodus of pillar clubs back to ECNL or not.

Overall the former DA clubs that affect OE seem to be struggling with this season in the ECNL. We haven't played Indy Fire yet, but I know the 01/00's beat the top Michigan Hawks team in Sanford. I assume that's the team that went 17-4-4 in DA last year but who knows how they handled teams when they came back.

You seem to be rationalizing that CUP is on the upswing because girls are coming back from the CDA which means national league. I'm sure NL is still a solid platform but after both DA (Especially as clubs leave) and ECNL are admittedly watered down with geographic battles, the NL is a distant third option. Sounds like it's not so much as their on the upswing as you've settled.

You bring out the troll in me coach!
 

Snooper

New member
Or train / play with higher level girls or older girls. I disagree with your comment about training with boys.
Well, I have heard that before the CDA sends a kid off to National Team duty, they are often seen training with boys...
 

coachg

Active member
OK, so we're back to OE vs DA/CUP. You're right about the 4.14th place, but in the last 4 or 5 years I've been watching OE they seems weaker in the U13/14/15 age groups and gets stronger for 16/17/18-19 age groups. I assume because that's when elite players start to gravitate to the ECNL platform. The older groups are 4 games into a 16 game conference schedule. Let's check in a couple months. The Cincy DA teams do seem to be doing better this year, I don't know if that coincides with the mass exodus of pillar clubs back to ECNL or not.

Overall the former DA clubs that affect OE seem to be struggling with this season in the ECNL. We haven't played Indy Fire yet, but I know the 01/00's beat the top Michigan Hawks team in Sanford. I assume that's the team that went 17-4-4 in DA last year but who knows how they handled teams when they came back.

You seem to be rationalizing that CUP is on the upswing because girls are coming back from the CDA which means national league. I'm sure NL is still a solid platform but after both DA (Especially as clubs leave) and ECNL are admittedly watered down with geographic battles, the NL is a distant third option. Sounds like it's not so much as their on the upswing as you've settled.

You bring out the troll in me coach!
Yeah let's check back in a couple of months. I believe the DA and ECNL are comparable to each other in many aspects and I actually think the competition between the two organization is a great thing for soccer. I would though love to see DA teams play ECNL teams but that won't happen as neither wants to do that. Although I bet the kids do.

Be easy on yourself Hoosier you still are not at super troll level that Bucky and Empty are though I am still betting they are the same person using two names on here.
 

Empty CUP

Member
Oh Coach.....You almost always miss the point.

CUP is on anything but an upswing, OE is doing just fine, and the DA girls are doing well too, just not a proper level of competition across the board. I'm saying they are in most cases better than who they play in DA play because the league is so watered down, and honestly it just keeps getting worse. Major programs pulling out and replacing them with more programs like CSA Impact is making the league worse.

But this is about how the CDA is falling apart, and it is, it's about how CUP and Hammer are trying to save themselves and they are. If it wasn't, these changes would not be happening. 2 major leaders left, another one driven out by parents (or butt hurt Parent on a witch hunt, in this case) and replaced by a guy who was already fired from one of the clubs involved for being a liar, and It's not even been around 2 years yet....Dumpster Fire!!
 

Bucknut3

Member
Oh Coach.....You almost always miss the point.

CUP is on anything but an upswing, OE is doing just fine, and the DA girls are doing well too, just not a proper level of competition across the board. I'm saying they are in most cases better than who they play in DA play because the league is so watered down, and honestly it just keeps getting worse. Major programs pulling out and replacing them with more programs like CSA Impact is making the league worse.

But this is about how the CDA is falling apart, and it is, it's about how CUP and Hammer are trying to save themselves and they are. If it wasn't, these changes would not be happening. 2 major leaders left, another one driven out by parents (or butt hurt Parent on a witch hunt, in this case) and replaced by a guy who was already fired from one of the clubs involved for being a liar, and It's not even been around 2 years yet....Dumpster Fire!!



Agree with the above. My two cents is that the NATIONAL ECNL platform works and DA needs to mimic this model ( high school!) which would allow a larger more competitive pool to be amassed. The local ECNL team notwithstanding, most of the ECNL clubs do a great job with training as does the DA and CDA but egos, money and poor administration prevents any coherent player development from happening. If that were the case you could merge the two and form tiers to include full time ( DA) athletes along with multiple ECNL caliber teams here in southern Ohio.
 
ECNL coaches = ego. Bullying parents. Deep insecurity.
DA coaches = not so much at this point....

***Obviously a generalization but accurate as a whole
 

Bucknut3

Member
You do have to agree the ECNL platform works great but you are spot on with the characterization of the local head ECNL honcho! LOL!
 
This is always so tiring. I need to quit getting into these discussions.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. ECNL/HS works for some. Club/HS works for some. DA works for some.

It's up to each player and family to figure out what they want out of their careers. Simple as that.
 

Bucknut3

Member
This is always so tiring. I need to quit getting into these discussions.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. ECNL/HS works for some. Club/HS works for some. DA works for some.

It's up to each player and family to figure out what they want out of their careers. Simple as that.
Agree it works for some but it can be improved and should be.
 

Snooper

New member
Agree it works for some but it can be improved and should be.
Agree with you on the "to each his own" principle, especially to the general concept of ECNL/HS, Club/HS, and DA.

The local, Southwest Ohio reality, however, is that CUP and KHA have had the best success at both developing female players and successfully competing at the National level. Because of politics, the possibility for EITHER club to enter the most competitive league in the country (ECNL) was impossible... so now, the high quality kids from those clubs end up competing in a less competitive league (the regional DA).

Imagine a world where CUP and KHA could have been "promoted" into the ECNL... would Bobby or Tiff have even bothered with the CDA fiasco??
 

Empty CUP

Member
Snooper said:
The local, Southwest Ohio reality, however, is that CUP and KHA have had the best success at both developing female players and successfully competing at the National level. Because of politics, the possibility for EITHER club to enter the most competitive league in the country (ECNL) was impossible... so now, the high quality kids from those clubs end up competing in a less competitive league (the regional DA).

Imagine a world where CUP and KHA could have been "promoted" into the ECNL... would Bobby or Tiff have even bothered with the CDA fiasco??
That’s an interesting “reality”.

Just confirmed that a handful of the CDA girls just left this week rather than continue riding the CDA train wreck and go back to Hammer next year. And they were not alone with wanting to find a better environment. Hmmm....
 

Snooper

New member
That’s an interesting “reality”.

Just confirmed that a handful of the CDA girls just left this week rather than continue riding the CDA train wreck and go back to Hammer next year. And they were not alone with wanting to find a better environment. Hmmm....
Left for where? Other than OE, where else would have room at this point in the season?
 

Bucknut3

Member
Agree with you on the "to each his own" principle, especially to the general concept of ECNL/HS, Club/HS, and DA.

The local, Southwest Ohio reality, however, is that CUP and KHA have had the best success at both developing female players and successfully competing at the National level. Because of politics, the possibility for EITHER club to enter the most competitive league in the country (ECNL) was impossible... so now, the high quality kids from those clubs end up competing in a less competitive league (the regional DA).

Imagine a world where CUP and KHA could have been "promoted" into the ECNL... would Bobby or Tiff have even bothered with the CDA fiasco??
Agree wholeheartedly! :clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
The local, Southwest Ohio reality, however, is that CUP and KHA have had the best success at both developing female players and successfully competing at the National level. Because of politics, the possibility for EITHER club to enter the most competitive league in the country (ECNL) was impossible... so now, the high quality kids from those clubs end up competing in a less competitive league (the regional DA).
Or they switch to OE around U16.
 

Empty CUP

Member
That’s the crux of the matter, the wouldn’t if both those clubs had access to the ECNL platform. Especially the CUP program who seen very few players leave pre BP days.
Prior to OE and OP leaving state cup CUP really didn't do much. It was after they both took their ECNL teams out of state cup that a spot opened up for CUP to look better.

And nobody left BP?

Well except that whole group that went to Frisco with him before his announcement, came back and joined OE year 1 of the DA. Even before that, Brown and others from that 99 birth year played for BP, others from the 98's did too and went over. More would have but there wasn't room.

The CUP defection is happening earlier now.
 

Bucknut3

Member
Prior to OE and OP leaving state cup CUP really didn't do much. It was after they both took their ECNL teams out of state cup that a spot opened up for CUP to look better.

And nobody left BP?

Well except that whole group that went to Frisco with him before his announcement, came back and joined OE year 1 of the DA. Even before that, Brown and others from that 99 birth year played for BP, others from the 98's did too and went over. More would have but there wasn't room.

The CUP defection is happening earlier now.
I don’t remember many OE or OP teams winning State Cup, especially when my lil Mia played. KHA and CUP dominated the 00 and 01 ages.
 

coachg

Active member
Oh Coach.....You almost always miss the point.

CUP is on anything but an upswing, OE is doing just fine, and the DA girls are doing well too, just not a proper level of competition across the board. I'm saying they are in most cases better than who they play in DA play because the league is so watered down, and honestly it just keeps getting worse. Major programs pulling out and replacing them with more programs like CSA Impact is making the league worse.
Not true CUP despite the DA and CDA is still producing and doing great. Look at the results at Presidents CUP and State CUP and even the large tournaments they attend nationally.

But this is about how the CDA is falling apart, and it is, it's about how CUP and Hammer are trying to save themselves and they are. If it wasn't, these changes would not be happening. 2 major leaders left, another one driven out by parents (or butt hurt Parent on a witch hunt, in this case) and replaced by a guy who was already fired from one of the clubs involved for being a liar, and It's not even been around 2 years yet....Dumpster Fire!!
One issue I see with what you are suggesting is that unless OE cuts players from their ECNL teams they have no room to absorb more players. If the do cut players I doubt those players would agree to play on OEs second team. So they are left with KHA or CUP. So then what? As I have stated before and will do again because it has not been answered in a "weakend" ECNL with clubs that left for the DA the local ECNL averaged 4th place in the their conference across all age groups and now that as you and others have pointed out these "strong" clubs are heading back to the ECNL do you expect OE to fair better or worse in their standings and what facts lead you to believe that way?

Some sort merger between DA and ECNL is not good. The DA merely mirror the ECNL may not be a good idea either. Each has something different to offer and gives players choices. Which is a good thing IMHO. Both leagues competing for "market" share aka players will drive each to improve more and more which again benefits the players. Due to egos, competing philosophies on how to best train players there will always be someone trying to make a better mouse trap. I believe the two groups we have now are best at driving growth of player development while offering differences that allow players a choice. Some of the choices I dont like much but it is what it is. I would like to see ECNL and DA allow their teams to compete in State Cup. Why not do it?

I have also recently heard that DB has or is leaving OE can anyone confirm or deny that?
 

Bucknut3

Member
Not true CUP despite the DA and CDA is still producing and doing great. Look at the results at Presidents CUP and State CUP and even the large tournaments they attend nationally.



One issue I see with what you are suggesting is that unless OE cuts players from their ECNL teams they have no room to absorb more players. If the do cut players I doubt those players would agree to play on OEs second team. So they are left with KHA or CUP. So then what? As I have stated before and will do again because it has not been answered in a "weakend" ECNL with clubs that left for the DA the local ECNL averaged 4th place in the their conference across all age groups and now that as you and others have pointed out these "strong" clubs are heading back to the ECNL do you expect OE to fair better or worse in their standings and what facts lead you to believe that way?

Some sort merger between DA and ECNL is not good. The DA merely mirror the ECNL may not be a good idea either. Each has something different to offer and gives players choices. Which is a good thing IMHO. Both leagues competing for "market" share aka players will drive each to improve more and more which again benefits the players. Due to egos, competing philosophies on how to best train players there will always be someone trying to make a better mouse trap. I believe the two groups we have now are best at driving growth of player development while offering differences that allow players a choice. Some of the choices I dont like much but it is what it is. I would like to see ECNL and DA allow their teams to compete in State Cup. Why not do it?

I have also recently heard that DB has or is leaving OE can anyone confirm or deny that?
Great insight. Agree both have something to offer. Haven’t heard anything about DB leaving. That would be huge since he is also VP of the ECNL.
 

5x26

Member
ECNL does allow them to compete in state cup, they don’t due to league game scheduling, and ECNL playoffs.

ECNL weakened? It’s always been strong and just going back to the strength it was before. Last year Eclipse finished ahead of the CDA in every age group, this year OE beat or tied each Eclipse team they played so far. Same with Indy Fire. Last year the 02’s went to the final 4 of the ECNL playoffs, others went and dropped out slightly earlier. If your talking about being 4th place on average this year put some context in it. They have only played 4 games other than the 06 and 05’s. 05’s are tied for 2nd and beat the number 1 team in a non league game and tied them in a league game. I can also promise you a league with OP, Internationals, FC Pride, TSC, Flash and Indy Fire (that finished ahead of each CDA DA team last year, but is winless in the same group of ECNL play) is tougher than anything the DA is seeing locally. The local DA conference lost Hawks and Eclipse that sent every age group to the playoffs, and Fire that sent 2 of 3. The replacements are unarguably not equal.

I will agree there are multiple ways to be successful, and many great kids come from multiple clubs in the area. OE, CDA (CUP and Hammer previously) TFA are and have been producing some awesome soccer players. For me I just prefer her playing tough competition more consistently and seeing such varied styles of play. Both I and my kids have many friends across all clubs and leagues. I wish all girls the best possible experience.

Doug isn’t going anywhere, been at practice all week as well.
 

coachg

Active member
ECNL does allow them to compete in state cup, they don’t due to league game scheduling, and ECNL playoffs.

ECNL weakened? It’s always been strong and just going back to the strength it was before. Last year Eclipse finished ahead of the CDA in every age group, this year OE beat or tied each Eclipse team they played so far. Same with Indy Fire. Last year the 02’s went to the final 4 of the ECNL playoffs, others went and dropped out slightly earlier. If your talking about being 4th place on average this year put some context in it. They have only played 4 games other than the 06 and 05’s. 05’s are tied for 2nd and beat the number 1 team in a non league game and tied them in a league game. I can also promise you a league with OP, Internationals, FC Pride, TSC, Flash and Indy Fire (that finished ahead of each CDA DA team last year, but is winless in the same group of ECNL play) is tougher than anything the DA is seeing locally. The local DA conference lost Hawks and Eclipse that sent every age group to the playoffs, and Fire that sent 2 of 3. The replacements are unarguably not equal.

I will agree there are multiple ways to be successful, and many great kids come from multiple clubs in the area. OE, CDA (CUP and Hammer previously) TFA are and have been producing some awesome soccer players. For me I just prefer her playing tough competition more consistently and seeing such varied styles of play. Both I and my kids have many friends across all clubs and leagues. I wish all girls the best possible experience.

Doug isn’t going anywhere, been at practice all week as well.
Good for OE that Doug isn't going anywhere that would be a huge loss and hurt OE.

The 13s and 14s have each played 9 games according to the standings on ECNL's page. I love watching the 05s play from OE great kids and parents blessed to know a few of them. Kind of an odd statement he wrote "It’s always been strong and just going back to the strength it was before." So to say it another way- The ECNL is stronger now then when they the clubs left for the DA. So when those clubs left it weakened the ECNL which is what I said. I also find it very hard to believe that for every single ECNL age group OE has that none of them can compete in the State Cup. If any league or club wants to claim they are the best then play the other leagues / clubs and beat them just like the Big10 and SEC does. Hard to do it any other way. Want to end this and prove it so all the players and families know it then play them. If they are truly allowed to play in State Cup then use it as a marketing tool every few years and win the majority of the titles not doing so either shows that they are scared to play or they don't care about really showing players and families they are the best. I cant think of a reason to not play in State Cup every 2 or 3 years even if its a marketing tool can you?
 

5x26

Member
Coach they play league games around early and mid May every year it’s planned by all clubs including their travel, and they rightfully should assume that they will make the league playoffs. Why would you want to play down in the national league series of competition for something like state cup and US youth nationals when you should be focused on the ECNL playoffs. The ECNL playoffs are the best.

Makes no sense and certainly not because they are scared.
 

coachg

Active member
Coach they play league games around early and mid May every year it’s planned by all clubs including their travel, and they rightfully should assume that they will make the league playoffs. Why would you want to play down in the national league series of competition for something like state cup and US youth nationals when you should be focused on the ECNL playoffs. The ECNL playoffs are the best.

Makes no sense and certainly not because they are scared.
From a marketing / recruiting standpoint if they are as successful as some think it will help the ECNL clubs in cities with a lot of competition for high level players. Moving a few of their league games so that they can play in State Cup every couple of years may benefit the local ECNL clubs. Looking at many HS and college sports they play teams in other leagues. There is a benefit to playing what you call playing down by experimenting with new formations, using backup players, and giving second team players an opportunity. UC plays Murray State and OSU plays Florida Atlantic Owls and the low level Team from Up North :) so I cant imagine that playing in the State Cup would hurt any team.
 
If ya'll get out of the Ohio bubble, you would see how obviously watered down the ECNL is as a whole. With so many new teams added, plus DA being a direct competitor (or so they want to think) and all of those added teams, how could it not be anything BUT watered down? The real issue is- now that the incredibly high talent level ECNL used to OWN is not all there, a lot of deeply insecure ECNL coaches and their lack of actual coaching skill is getting exposed, so their normal backlash against ANYONE disagreeing with them on strategy or common sense logical player decisions is ramped up 10000%, which is also causing a lot of players/families to 'try' the DA route instead of the mental abuse these freaks are causing if they stay at ECNL. Sad really and happening all over the place.

Yes, another generalization and yes there ARE some great coaches at ECNL clubs, but if you as a family/player find the mental abuse being ramped up a billion % recently by YOUR ECNL coach, now you most likely know the reason why.
 
Jed, where are there several families trying the DA route? Is this outside Ohio? Is there more abuse with ECNL coaches rather than DA? Do you think more so in Ohio? Are ECNL coaches more insecure than DA or National League coaches?
 
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