ohioguy112
New member
Taking a look at the new class of ‘27 (freshman) rankings, and I’m blown away. How can state champ Bickerton not be in the top 10. Wild!
Boro Class Rankings
- Thread starter ohioguy112
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OaSgUr2013
Member
Probably because they are listed alphabetically…
pinmewithahalf
Active member
Probably because he won a state title using an illegal move.
The issue with the freshman is there are only 10 wrestlers ranked. Not saying he shouldn't be in the top 10 but it is a small sample. My only real gripe is listing kids that didn't compete or make varsity. Sanderfer has been ranked repeatedly yearly and didn't even start as a freshman. Driscoll wasn't healthy the first part of the year and when he was cleared couldn't crack the lineup. Hard to rank guys if they aren't even in the varsity lineup.
Huckleberry
Well-known member
Definitely yes on Bickerton. I think Eli Esguerra should be on there too.
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Boro Fan
Well-known member
As always, class rankings are very subjective. Trying to compare 106s to 285s and so on is nearly impossible. Also as mentioned, only 10 spots right now makes even tougher. Bickerton’s loss to fellow freshman L.Rohr is ultimately the reason he is just outside the Top 10.
Esguerra, Zmorowski and both Bickerton’s are the first few guys out and all have good cases to be in the Top 10. When I move to the 2024-25 season in mid-June and the 2027 class becomes Sophomores, everyone above will be ranked in the Top 20 for sure.
Esguerra, Zmorowski and both Bickerton’s are the first few guys out and all have good cases to be in the Top 10. When I move to the 2024-25 season in mid-June and the 2027 class becomes Sophomores, everyone above will be ranked in the Top 20 for sure.
Boro Fan
Well-known member
I show Driscoll with previous wins over Boyle and Aquila within the past year or two. It’s also hard to penalize someone that sat behind a state placer.
Huckleberry
Well-known member
Fair enough. Notice I didn’t offer to take anyone off the list.
CHTigerNation
Member
Boro Fan
Well-known member
Had a little trouble moving wrestlers around and getting it to save on my website. The Junior class appears to have finally saved correctly now.
Johnson’s loss to fellow junior Brencyn Evans (Monroeville) is ultimately what left him out of the rankings.
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Buckeye1st
Member
Here's a question... not meant to start a fight...
How many of the "freshmen" in the rankings are hold backs? I know Burnett, shawver, the bickerton bro's, aquila are all hold backs... I am sure I am missing a bunch more....
but how many ranked freshmen started the school year at 14 years old? Again, not trying to start a fight... just curious if holding back for an age advantage is the new normal...
I think holding back is the new normal. However, saying it is simply done so for athletics only is not fair to the many that were held back for other reasons. It's not fair to lump all hold backs together for the narrative one wants to fill. Sadly, covid was a very trying time for kids who have issues and things didn't get worked out. Passing kids along through grades after a year and a half off from school wasn't the right thing to do.
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Buckeye1st
Member
So, I guess the question is, are there any "true" freshman that are ranked? Freshmen that started the year at the normal age of 14...
when did Aquila holdback? just curious, He won 6th grade OAC, the next year, 2nd at OAC, 8th grade, 1st at OAC, and then 4th at OHSAA, where's the hold back part for him?
Buckeye1st
Member
I actually do not know... i was basing that more off of convos at ohsaa state tourney... he actually impressed me a ton mentally and physically and when I talked to someone from Brecksville and mentioned how impressed i was that a freshman hung with Ty Wilson they mentioned him being 16 already... insinuating he is very good... but not really a freshman... I did not fact check but this was from someone within the program.
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Boro Fan
Well-known member
I believe Welch, Driscoll and Van Gundy are also hold backs. It seems like every year when I put together Freshmen rankings in the summer, at least half of the kids are hold backs.
Based on the hold backs listed at the bottom of incoming freshman thread (https://yappi.com/forum/index.php?t...r-8th-grade-oac-jh-state-placers-2024.370594/), I think this will continue next year as well.
Buckeye1st
Member
This is super interesting...
What would be interesting to see is how the hold backs stay in the rankings as the kids get older... logically it makes sense that the best "freshman" is actually a sophomore aged kid getting compared to a freshman.... a 16 year old is usually wayyy different biologically than a 14 year old. Does that "advantage" dissipate as the kids get older and everyone has gone through puberty, etc.? It would seem to make sense to me... or, Like Borofan mentioned, are half the top rankings kids that have an age advantage all the way through high school?
side note - thanks for all the content Borofan
not sure why you are so obsessed with holdbacks, but if you look at Borofans returnee page, only 2 times are all placers returning, D 1 and D 3 106, then mostly over 1/2 of the weight classes after 132 are all graduating. Even if the majority of these holdbacks are a year older, they eventually have to wrestle juniors and seniors that are older than them
there's differences in the holdback ecosystem these days.
There's the kids that are twice eligible to compete at 16U before high school, and those are 100% "holdback", as they would also be on the older end of the grade above them when looking at normal students. Then among those that are eligible to compete at 16U for the first time going into the 9th grade year (i.e. after 8th grade), some of them are athletic "holdbacks" (i.e. January to around June birthdays) while others fall into the range of what would happen when looking at a normal student (around June to December). Unless something has recently changed, 9/30 is the latest birthdate a kid can have to matriculate to kindergarten.
For hypothetical, a kid that was an October 2008 birthday would have been eligible for 16U in Fargo last summer, but is in the academic grade appropriate by standards of your ordinary student. On the other hand, an October 2007 birthday could be eligible for the March 2027 state tournament as a senior, which for most people reference point would clearly be a "holdback".
There's the kids that are twice eligible to compete at 16U before high school, and those are 100% "holdback", as they would also be on the older end of the grade above them when looking at normal students. Then among those that are eligible to compete at 16U for the first time going into the 9th grade year (i.e. after 8th grade), some of them are athletic "holdbacks" (i.e. January to around June birthdays) while others fall into the range of what would happen when looking at a normal student (around June to December). Unless something has recently changed, 9/30 is the latest birthdate a kid can have to matriculate to kindergarten.
For hypothetical, a kid that was an October 2008 birthday would have been eligible for 16U in Fargo last summer, but is in the academic grade appropriate by standards of your ordinary student. On the other hand, an October 2007 birthday could be eligible for the March 2027 state tournament as a senior, which for most people reference point would clearly be a "holdback".
Huckleberry
Well-known member
Ty is 17. He won his first title as a 14-year-old. Stud.
And smart, and mature…unlike most kids his age.
What exactly is the criteria for class rankings? Does national competition play a factor or is it Ohio state tournament results?
One of the rankings have guys that hasn’t even started this year. Or For example why is Sanderfer ranked at 18 when he took at 6th last year and didn’t go the other 2 years. How does placing one time in the junior class put you at 22 and 23 when a 3 time state finalist and a 2 time state finalist are at 28 and 29. Do Divsions play a significant role? Do certain programs get more of a favors because they have been historically good? I’m not trying to sound like a bad guy and understand that ranking 30 sum kids out of and entire class is extremely difficult. But there just seems to be holes in logic that’s are not completely consistent across the board.
One of the rankings have guys that hasn’t even started this year. Or For example why is Sanderfer ranked at 18 when he took at 6th last year and didn’t go the other 2 years. How does placing one time in the junior class put you at 22 and 23 when a 3 time state finalist and a 2 time state finalist are at 28 and 29. Do Divsions play a significant role? Do certain programs get more of a favors because they have been historically good? I’m not trying to sound like a bad guy and understand that ranking 30 sum kids out of and entire class is extremely difficult. But there just seems to be holes in logic that’s are not completely consistent across the board.
Boro Fan
Well-known member
Him coming back and finishing third twice shows tremendous character.
All results matter.
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some freshman should be juniors
Thanks for doing these rankings Borofan. So much great content.
I’m shocked Eugene Harney is 16. Any thoughts you can share behind that? 4 time placer in the meat grinder middle weights. 2 time champ. 157 was soft this year but last year he won the deepest weight class. Not many wins from a national perspective but I still felt like he had one of the best 4 year careers of any of the seniors.
Not poking just wanted to see if I missed something. Thanks!
I’m shocked Eugene Harney is 16. Any thoughts you can share behind that? 4 time placer in the meat grinder middle weights. 2 time champ. 157 was soft this year but last year he won the deepest weight class. Not many wins from a national perspective but I still felt like he had one of the best 4 year careers of any of the seniors.
Not poking just wanted to see if I missed something. Thanks!
I couldn't agree more with you, but lets remember this is one mans opinion on who should be ranked and for that it's not the bible. My son was part of the 157 last year Div 1 took 4th last year and this year at 175 4th, and by the way my son is still 17, he has over 140 wins in his tenure only to be honorable mention... Whatever, these rankings sure don't define Harney nor my son. Just bathroom reading material...
ohioguy112
New member
150 last year and 157 this year we’re some of the worst ohio weights I’ve seen.