Ask The Ref?

coltfan76

Active member
If the line to gain is the goal line you’re never going to get a first down for an encroachment foul.

The only “automatic first downs” in NFHS are for roughing the passer, roughing the kicker/holder, and roughing the snapper.
So what is the detriment for the defense to just keep committing encroachment?
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
Rule 9-9, Unfair Acts

ART. 2 ... No team shall repeatedly commit fouls which halve the distance to the goal line.
Similar question, I thought it had been asked a few years ago, but couldn't find it on here: What happens if the offense is having a long huddle, and gets flagged multiple times for delay of game? Is it allowable until they're backed up to their own 10-yard line?

Had a flashback to a Ritz Brothers college football movie from the 1930's, where the brothers spend a long time in the huddle drawing up a convoluted multiple-handoff/lateral play. They get moved back something like 50 yards or more on multiple DOG violations - and still score the winning touchdown. That always stuck in my mind as a potential strategy, no matter how ludicrous, unless there's a similar provision to prevent this - maybe?
 

Sting10

New member
Encroachment (there is no off sides in High School Football) is never an automatic first down. It's either 5 yards from the previous dead ball spot or half the distance to the goal line from the previous dead ball spot.

Now, you stated "4th and less than a yard going into score"

Did you mean 4th and goal to go?
Yes, 4th and goal. Encroachment correct.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Similar question, I thought it had been asked a few years ago, but couldn't find it on here: What happens if the offense is having a long huddle, and gets flagged multiple times for delay of game? Is it allowable until they're backed up to their own 10-yard line?

Had a flashback to a Ritz Brothers college football movie from the 1930's, where the brothers spend a long time in the huddle drawing up a convoluted multiple-handoff/lateral play. They get moved back something like 50 yards or more on multiple DOG violations - and still score the winning touchdown. That always stuck in my mind as a potential strategy, no matter how ludicrous, unless there's a similar provision to prevent this - maybe?
I’m not able to look in the casebook right now but the unfair act rule allows the referee to enforce any penalty he feels is equitable. Also, generally the clock starts on the snap after a delay of game foul but Rule 3-4-6 allows the referee to start or stop the clock whenever an unfair advantage could be gained under the normal timing rules. In your situation I’m starting the clock on the snap after two delay of game fouls.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
So what is the detriment for the defense to just keep committing encroachment?
As zebratstripes noted, this is a foul. The rule gives the Referee options on how to penalize this act, including the awarding of a score or forfeiture (drastic measure) of the game.

Once it becomes obvious to all what's happening, the Referee will inform the Head Coach that the next time it happens it is an Unsporting Conduct foul that will be charged to him. The second time that happens, he is ejected from the game...... that's the detriment.

If it gets to that point or further....... The Head Coach is going to have some serious consequences to deal with.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Similar question, I thought it had been asked a few years ago, but couldn't find it on here: What happens if the offense is having a long huddle, and gets flagged multiple times for delay of game? Is it allowable until they're backed up to their own 10-yard line?

Had a flashback to a Ritz Brothers college football movie from the 1930's, where the brothers spend a long time in the huddle drawing up a convoluted multiple-handoff/lateral play. They get moved back something like 50 yards or more on multiple DOG violations - and still score the winning touchdown. That always stuck in my mind as a potential strategy, no matter how ludicrous, unless there's a similar provision to prevent this - maybe?
While there is not specific case book plays that address this, the provision in the Unfair Acts rule allows for the Referee to penalize for any act that in the opinion of the Referee, tends to make a travesty of the game.

Like the other situation just discussed, this would probably start with.... "coach, next time it's 15 and it's on you".
 

coltfan76

Active member
As zebratstripes noted, this is a foul. The rule gives the Referee options on how to penalize this act, including the awarding of a score or forfeiture (drastic measure) of the game.

Once it becomes obvious to all what's happening, the Referee will inform the Head Coach that the next time it happens it is an Unsporting Conduct foul that will be charged to him. The second time that happens, he is ejected from the game...... that's the detriment.

If it gets to that point or further....... The Head Coach is going to have some serious consequences to deal with.
This is what I was looking for, thanks.
 

CedarBuck92

Active member
If there are offsetting Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties is there any reason to walk off the penalty in each direction?

If you are going to walk them off and it is goal to go, do you walk half the distance and then back to where you were or is it half the distance and then 15 yards?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
If there are offsetting Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties is there any reason to walk off the penalty in each direction?

If you are going to walk them off and it is goal to go, do you walk half the distance and then back to where you were or is it half the distance and then 15 yards?
Offsetting fouls do not need to be walked off... (offset = cancel each other)

There are times however, when dead ball fouls committed by each team would/could require walking of the fouls as you describe.
 

eagles73

Member
Second scenario, bubble screen, side judge puts fist back indicating Pass behind los, receiver gets facemask grabbed at point behind los where he caught it. Called five yard incidental, where penalty get marked off?
 
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chs1971

Well-known member
Second scenario, bubble screen, side judge puts fist back indicating Pass behind los, receiver gets facemask grabbed at point behind los where he caught it. Called five yard incidental, where penalty get marked off?
The wing punching back indicates a backward pass, not a pass behind the LOS.

If the face mask foul occurred after the ball was caught the penalty is from the end of the run.
 
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