Africentric stays loaded

Spring

Member
What you bring up here is very interesting to me. Several years back I was put in charge of recruiting kids who then went through a tryout for a well known organization in Dayton. We wanted some kids (16U ) with varried skill sets to be able to play different methods based on what was needed for the opponet we faced.

The result was we picked 5 private school kids, used to playing fundamental skills ball, all good shooters and passers, and we selected 4 kids who were pure athletes and were not nearly as fundamental. These kids were great for stopping other more athletic teams. As a coach I noticed immediately each player relied on what got them there, to the team. It was difficult to teach the athletes to square up and shoot the three as they were used to using their speed to drive around and create on their own. They also were not good at ball reversal to break down a defense.
Opposite for the Catholic kids. They relied on (as you say) a system to get their looks for a shot.
Eventually, the athletic kids did learn to work within the system, but that was hard to get through their heads they were not always going to be able to simply out jump and out run an opponet.
When we including mysef growing up just playing anything , kickball dodge ball or anything it was all based on what same principal as basketball . When you looked at the pros or people making the pros you did not see system ball we seen the jumping, dunking and fancy dribbles. We are a by product of are inner city period and has a high school coach in the inner city every hard to get a good mix of both trust 4 years is not enough time. We must start from a young age on basics for any sport to be a skilled person but there are not enough good people , parents or rec leaders or coaches that are willing to that. They just want run fast , jump high . sad
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
They just do a great job of system ball and being were they should on defense most of the time, meaning 3rd grade on they are far above most teams and there coach is better. Star player they dont have a person on team your worried about at all, your worried about system period
Everyone has a "system". You might call it a "style of play" or the "fundamental values" of the program, or perhaps simply "this is what we are trying to do with what we have".

I think you are right in what I think you are trying to say, but perhaps just taking it a little too far. You are right in the sense that Hiland is not a program that puts talent at the center of their basketball philosophy. Talent, especially in a rural area where there isn't a huge pool of athletes to draw from and where it is difficult to relocate to, will ebb and flow. Many times those Hiland girls have beat the brains out of someone on the tourney trail and an opposing fan has said to me, "They are so talented", but usually they aren't really. What they are is skilled and coached. That can take you a long way in a sport where there aren't a lot of teams that are very skilled or well-coached. I would dare say that most girls coaches in Ohio hope they get a talented group every 10 years and have a magical season because teaching skills is hard.

That Hiland program is built around fundamental skill development, using depth as a weapon, and a few other things like weight training and some mental/motivational stuff that is pretty cutting edge. Coach Schlabach will say "We want to be the most skilled, deepest, and strongest team on the floor." That has won him a lot of games.

They have talent, but what kind of talent are we talking about? Girls that get recruited by major DI colleges are rare at Hiland. They produce quite a few DII players and virtually any girl who has gone through the entire program would qualify to play on the DIII level.

Africentric produces a challenge in that they often have 5-8 players who will eventually play DI college basketball. Usually, the most talented and better athletes will win a basketball game, but if the gap isn't too wide, a team that plays the right way and plays well can compete.

Coach Schlabach isn't usually too public about how he really feels about the quality of his team. I think he is usually trying to protect them or perhaps keep them from thinking too much of themselves. But on several occasions this year, he has been quoted as saying, "This is the most talented team I have ever had."

Africentric poses speed and quickness problems and often just a talent gap that makes it hard to counteract with with skills. Depth is hard to use as a weapon at state because of the number and length of timeouts. Hiland normally relies on pressure, turnovers, and wearing the other team out, but that's hard to do against superior athletes. Rebounding is harder when the other team is as strong or stronger.

Hiland is 4-5 against AC. In the 4 wins I think you have seen Hiland being able to leverage their advantages enough to overcome their disadvantages. Taking Coach Schlabach at his word, this would appear to be one of those years where he thinks they can make this great series 5-5.

If the game happens, it will be perhaps the most anticipated game at state. Great fun!
 

Spring

Member
Everyone has a "system". You might call it a "style of play" or the "fundamental values" of the program, or perhaps simply "this is what we are trying to do with what we have".

I think you are right in what I think you are trying to say, but perhaps just taking it a little too far. You are right in the sense that Hiland is not a program that puts talent at the center of their basketball philosophy. Talent, especially in a rural area where there isn't a huge pool of athletes to draw from and where it is difficult to relocate to, will ebb and flow. Many times those Hiland girls have beat the brains out of someone on the tourney trail and an opposing fan has said to me, "They are so talented", but usually they aren't really. What they are is skilled and coached. That can take you a long way in a sport where there aren't a lot of teams that are very skilled or well-coached. I would dare say that most girls coaches in Ohio hope they get a talented group every 10 years and have a magical season because teaching skills is hard.

That Hiland program is built around fundamental skill development, using depth as a weapon, and a few other things like weight training and some mental/motivational stuff that is pretty cutting edge. Coach Schlabach will say "We want to be the most skilled, deepest, and strongest team on the floor." That has won him a lot of games.

They have talent, but what kind of talent are we talking about? Girls that get recruited by major DI colleges are rare at Hiland. They produce quite a few DII players and virtually any girl who has gone through the entire program would qualify to play on the DIII level.

Africentric produces a challenge in that they often have 5-8 players who will eventually play DI college basketball. Usually, the most talented and better athletes will win a basketball game, but if the gap isn't too wide, a team that plays the right way and plays well can compete.

Coach Schlabach isn't usually too public about how he really feels about the quality of his team. I think he is usually trying to protect them or perhaps keep them from thinking too much of themselves. But on several occasions this year, he has been quoted as saying, "This is the most talented team I have ever had."

Africentric poses speed and quickness problems and often just a talent gap that makes it hard to counteract with with skills. Depth is hard to use as a weapon at state because of the number and length of timeouts. Hiland normally relies on pressure, turnovers, and wearing the other team out, but that's hard to do against superior athletes. Rebounding is harder when the other team is as strong or stronger.

Hiland is 4-5 against AC. In the 4 wins I think you have seen Hiland being able to leverage their advantages enough to overcome their disadvantages. Taking Coach Schlabach at his word, this would appear to be one of those years where he thinks they can make this great series 5-5.

If the game happens, it will be perhaps the most anticipated game at state. Great fun!
I will say this both teams are in the top 4 in state period and would be playing for a state berth and chance to win d1 . I
 

Spring

Member
Funny that you call Ottawa, Hopewell overrated. This is coming from a person who supports a team that should be in d1 with all the recruiting they do. You may beat these Overrated teams. But, you will have to bring a team that is a mini nba to do it. And you should run the boards with that kind of team. That is why attendance is declining. No one wants to see a team like AC. No heart or community involvement. Look at the fans that attend. If AC plays Ottawa in the regional finals most of the fans will be there supporting Ottawa. Why!!! because it is a community that has supported these same girls all thru school. And support their community. Writing is on the wall.
Please dont give me the community thing da you will of course have more support for obvious reasons , da how many high schools in your community or in a 30 mile radius ? Were is your school population from ? Whats the economical status of your parents and community for your school ? So please quit with the bull you know what , hopefully this helps them keep it at 20 with all the support and are lack of
 

Spartan87

Active member
Spring:

Why not give you the community thing? Ottawa is the county seat of Putnam County. Population is around 32,000...for the county. 9 high schools in Putnam County. Also that 30 mile radius you speak of also includes the city of Lima and Allen County, 12 more high schools..Anyway, yes Africentric does have a distinct advantage over the rural districts. You can't compare the city of Ottawa and the village of Glandorf to metro Columbus, but yet those girls still compete. For you to call them overrated is a stretch. If anything they are underrated seeing as what they are up against. Ottawa is in the middle of a cornfield bordered by a river that floods the town occasionally. Not a bunch of rich folks there, but they play the hell out of some basketball. And when they don't play us (Lima Senior) I root for them! Good luck Titans!
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
Spring:

Why not give you the community thing? Ottawa is the county seat of Putnam County. Population is around 32,000...for the county. 9 high schools in Putnam County. Also that 30 mile radius you speak of also includes the city of Lima and Allen County, 12 more high schools..Anyway, yes Africentric does have a distinct advantage over the rural districts. You can't compare the city of Ottawa and the village of Glandorf to metro Columbus, but yet those girls still compete. For you to call them overrated is a stretch. If anything they are underrated seeing as what they are up against. Ottawa is in the middle of a cornfield bordered by a river that floods the town occasionally. Not a bunch of rich folks there, but they play the hell out of some basketball. And when they don't play us (Lima Senior) I root for them! Good luck Titans!
As an aside and completely off subject, how is the work around the football stadium coming? That was a goat-rope for parking at the playoff game I was there for last fall.
 

Spartan87

Active member
As an aside and completely off subject, how is the work around the football stadium coming? That was a goat-rope for parking at the playoff game I was there for last fall.
Not sure, I don't venture over that way often. Hopefully they have the improvements done by the start of the season!
 

Spring

Member
Spring:

Why not give you the community thing? Ottawa is the county seat of Putnam County. Population is around 32,000...for the county. 9 high schools in Putnam County. Also that 30 mile radius you speak of also includes the city of Lima and Allen County, 12 more high schools..Anyway, yes Africentric does have a distinct advantage over the rural districts. You can't compare the city of Ottawa and the village of Glandorf to metro Columbus, but yet those girls still compete. For you to call them overrated is a stretch. If anything they are underrated seeing as what they are up against. Ottawa is in the middle of a cornfield bordered by a river that floods the town occasionally. Not a bunch of rich folks there, but they play the hell out of some basketball. And when they don't play us (Lima Senior) I root for them! Good luck Titans!
16 high schools in columbus 75 percent on free and reduced lunch , 67 percent on some form of welfare over 50 come from a single parent home by a mom. And also with open enrôllment in the district there are few city schools who have most students or familes come from that school area. I can give more so like i said dont go there
 

Spring

Member
16 high schools in columbus 75 percent on free and reduced lunch , 67 percent on some form of welfare over 50 come from a single parent home by a mom. And also with open enrôllment in the district there are few city schools who have most students or familes come from that school area. I can give more so like i said dont go there
Man i am talking about support going to the games
 

Spring

Member
16 high schools in columbus 75 percent on free and reduced lunch , 67 percent on some form of welfare over 50 come from a single parent home by a mom. And also with open enrôllment in the district there are few city schools who have most students or familes come from that school area. I can give more so like i said dont go there
They are overrated big time and are not very good i dont care if rural or city or suburbs there record is beating up on other teams that are no good
 

Spartan87

Active member
You can pull students from a metro area of almost 1 million. Again Putnam County has 32,000 residents. Ottawa and Glandorf combined isn't 10,000...Yet OG competes with what they have. If A High is so mighty, leave the OHSAA and play a true national schedule then get back to me. You say these schools you beat play no one, but yet you sing on here about beating them...Which is it?
 

Raider6309

Well-known member
You can pull students from a metro area of almost 1 million. Again Putnam County has 32,000 residents. Ottawa and Glandorf combined isn't 10,000...Yet OG competes with what they have. If A High is so mighty, leave the OHSAA and play a true national schedule then get back to me. You say these schools you beat play no one, but yet you sing on here about beating them...Which is it?
OG pulls in kids from multiple school districts. Basically you are complaining Africentric does it better. It’s what good programs do
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
OG pulls in kids from multiple school districts. Basically you are complaining Africentric does it better. It’s what good programs do
The massive gap in your logic is that if athletes are fish, and you are fishing for them, the Cbus metro area lake has more fish and more trophy fish than the rural pond. FWIW.

That can be interpreted as a shot at AC. It isnt. It's a shot at the ohsaa for creating a competitive balance system that doesnt address the cause of competitive imbalance - because it treats all fish the same and does not account for the difference between a huge lake stocked with trophy fish and a rural pond stocked with a lot of blue gills. 😉
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
I actually agree with Spring on the socio-economic point - because it is rooted in established research.

A coach who has a bunch of kids whose biological parents are married and living under the same roof and who are in the middle income range or higher, has some significant advantages outside of athletic factors. There are way less hurdles to coaching those kids. There are also urban vs rural differences in culture, lifestyle, opportunities, and challenges.

Where I probably disagree with Spring is that once teams step on the court to play, the most important factor in the outcome is going to be how big, fast, and talented the athletes are.

However, I think what he is saying is that all those socio-economic factors have a big impact on whether and how those athletes get to the floor to play that game.
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
It might help us to keep our eye on the ball here. If Hiland meets Africentric at state, someone will win and someone will lose. Almost all of those Hiland kids will go to college, marry well, be good parents and have good lives. If every girl on that AC team ends up doing the exact same things, and basketball is a tool that helps them get there, THAT is the real win - regardless of who won a ballgame.
 
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Spring

Member
You can pull students from a metro area of almost 1 million. Again Putnam County has 32,000 residents. Ottawa and Glandorf combined isn't 10,000...Yet OG competes with what they have. If A High is so mighty, leave the OHSAA and play a true national schedule then get back to me. You say these schools you beat play no one, but yet you sing on here about beating them...Which is it?
Us being good has nothing to do with them not playing anyone and not being good. Berlin would win by 25 plus if they played them , what would be the excuse for that ? Lol i guess i will troll on
 

Spring

Member
I actually agree with Spring on the socio-economic point - because it is rooted in established research.

A coach who has a bunch of kids whose biological parents are married and living under the same roof and who are in the middle income range or higher, has some significant advantages outside of athletic factors. There are way less hurdles to coaching those kids. There are also urban vs rural differences in culture, lifestyle, opportunities, and challenges.

Where I probably disagree with Spring is that once teams step on the court to play, the most important factor in the outcome is going to be how big, fast, and talented the athletes are.

However, I think what he is saying is that all those socio-economic factors have a big impact on whether and how those athletes get to the floor to play that game.
When i brought up the social part its strictly about fan support . someone said we wont have many , ottawa will have more and i gave reasons why we dont get fan support
 

Spring

Member
I actually agree with Spring on the socio-economic point - because it is rooted in established research.

A coach who has a bunch of kids whose biological parents are married and living under the same roof and who are in the middle income range or higher, has some significant advantages outside of athletic factors. There are way less hurdles to coaching those kids. There are also urban vs rural differences in culture, lifestyle, opportunities, and challenges.

Where I probably disagree with Spring is that once teams step on the court to play, the most important factor in the outcome is going to be how big, fast, and talented the athletes are.

However, I think what he is saying is that all those socio-economic factors have a big impact on whether and how those athletes get to the floor to play that game.
Look if your talking about us having better talent we do and tough cookies we play who they say we have to play and are non league games are tough, the respect we and i have for berlin is they dont cry to much. They do whats necessary to prepare for a title run and to beat us, you never heard me say they dont play a great non conference games they do , and they have a system from i assume 3 grade through 8 that all should copy to become a great program in any divison. Now i hope we win by 30 tonight so you haters can cry
 

redfox90

New member
OG pulls in kids from multiple school districts. Basically you are complaining Africentric does it better. It’s what good programs do
As an Ottawa-Glandorf fan, Graduate, and resident of the village of Ottawa. I would love to know who these kids are we PULLED IN and from where???
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
Look if your talking about us having better talent we do and tough cookies we play who they say we have to play and are non league games are tough, the respect we and i have for berlin is they dont cry to much. They do whats necessary to prepare for a title run and to beat us, you never heard me say they dont play a great non conference games they do , and they have a system from i assume 3 grade through 8 that all should copy to become a great program in any divison. Now i hope we win by 30 tonight so you haters can cry
I see your point on the fan support.

The issue isnt really with how talented AC is or how they acquired it. It's more with how the ohsaa slots them for tournament play. If they are slotted for - or would volunteer- to compete in Division I, then no one can say anything. But because they are slotted for D III play, but they have D I quality talent, it creates a competitive imbalance because the fish, and how they are caught, are completely different.

Hiland doesn't whine about it. It is what it is. If that's the way it is, then you do what you can to win anyway. But that doesnt mean it should be what it is. 😁
 

Raider6309

Well-known member
The massive gap in your logic is that if athletes are fish, and you are fishing for them, the Cbus metro area lake has more fish and more trophy fish than the rural pond. FWIW.

That can be interpreted as a shot at AC. It isnt. It's a shot at the ohsaa for creating a competitive balance system that doesnt address the cause of competitive imbalance - because it treats all fish the same and does not account for the difference between a huge lake stocked with trophy fish and a rural pond stocked with a lot of blue gills. 😉
Both schools cheat compared to most schools in their division
 

AHS90

New member
True.

But they’ll probably roll through everyone outside of the city league as well.
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They are definitely the top girls program in Ohio
You never heard of Fort Loramie then. They play 13 girls at any time of any game with very little drop off. The entire program, 7th, 8th, JV and Varsity, all undefeated this year. All from a rural school and home grown. That is a program!
 

IVCguy

Well-known member
Both schools cheat compared to most schools in their division
Explain how because that is a very serious accusation which should be reported to the OHSAA. I have no information that either of those schools "cheat", and I know one of them doesn't. Perhaps I just need the info you have. I will wait for it.
 
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Raider6309

Well-known member
Explain how because that is a very serious accusation which should be reported to the OHSAA. I have no information that either of those schools "cheat", and I know one of them doesn't. Perhaps I just need the info you have. I will wait for it.
Ohsaa let’s you cheat. Most schools play with what is in their district. Good programs are able to pull in from multiple areas. Both OG and Africentric play within the rules. Africentric just does it better but they have a better coach
 
I doubt it if OG has any players from outside the OG District boundaries. I would have no problem with Afric. if all their players came from an area right around the school with a total population of 10,000 or less. The issue is and always has been being able to attract players from a very large population base while keeping the total enrollment at the school low. Until that issue is addressed this is never going to change. Competive Balance formula only kicks a school 1 division at the most. That isn't enough for the big city privates. Afric. should be renamed "The Greater Columbus Area All Star Team".
 

AHS90

New member
I doubt it if OG has any players from outside the OG District boundaries. I would have no problem with Afric. if all their players came from an area right around the school with a total population of 10,000 or less. The issue is and always has been being able to attract players from a very large population base while keeping the total enrollment at the school low. Until that issue is addressed this is never going to change. Competive Balance formula only kicks a school 1 division at the most. That isn't enough for the big city privates. Afric. should be renamed "The Greater Columbus Area All Star Team".
Just another Prep School disguised as a public school. Another Akron Stv-Stm. Both have a great coach and both limit who goes to their school.
 
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