2023 St. Ignatius Football

Oil Filter said:
From an outsider's perspective: there are only so many of the traditional Catholic families that were the foundation of Ignatius' success. That's a diminishing number, and an increasing percentage of what remains are choosing St. Ed over Ignatius. Additionally, St. Ed appears to be a bit more "flexible" in their admissions standards. Taken together, that's a large part of the talent gap.
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I would also point out there are many recovering catholics. Then again, a friend's son who is currently a student there, family has never been catholic or any semblance of anything religious, whether catholic or anything else. Not that I particularly care, being a recovering catholic myself, but, my point is I'm not sure any standard is the answer
 
OTOH, about 25% of the students at any Catholic school are non-Catholic, so it's not clear how relevant that is.

It's also notable that higher socio-demographic groups are moving away from football. As Ignatius draws to a large degree from that group, that's another area of diminished participation.

Not saying that it won't come back, but other than bragging rights (or alumni donations from the reflected-glory crowd that football success excites) it's not an institutional concern.
 
There are 414 boys in the freshmen class this year. Ignatius is overflowing with applicants. Kids are not coming there for football.

The sports landscape has shipped and it’s not going back. Ignatius is still playing teams they have no business scheduling. Maybe that will change with these beatings.
 
Oil Filter said:
OTOH, about 25% of the students at any Catholic school are non-Catholic, so it's not clear how relevant that is.

It's also notable that higher socio-demographic groups are moving away from football. As Ignatius draws to a large degree from that group, that's another area of diminished participation.

Not saying that it won't come back, but other than bragging rights (or alumni donations from the reflected-glory crowd that football success excites) it's not an institutional concern.
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Again, you are provided a catholic education when enrolled. Meaning learning about God, establishing morals, principle and discipline. Pretty nice option for a family. Don’t try to read too far into it and let your imagination run wild.
 
All Jesuits are catholics but not all catholics are jesuits. Point being, from my experience, a jesuit education is different and better than a diocesan type catholic education. Just like back in the day a specific order catholic church was different and better than a standard diocesan money laundering mill, I mean church.

Many diocesan experiences I had, which I won't get into here, and happened both in cle and Florida, is what turned me into a recovering catholic.

I dont believe 25% of Ignatius is non-catholic. Unless the experience radically changed, you would have to really be good at faking it to not stick out.

I dont believe that percentage breakdown is relevant to the turn in football. Rather, it is kids are drawn to other sports (soccer, hockey, rugby) as well as the first pull to the school, mostly, is the education.

I have witnessed said current student and parents be shell-shocked freshman year when couldn't cut the mustard academically to be eligible for sports. It improved this year, but it reinforces my view that the perception of the Ignatius experience by those who haven't endured it is radically wrong when they think item A is first and foremost, and in truth is it is a few rungs down the hierarchy. Making boys into great students, men, and future leader is the true priority A.
 
Wildcat97 said:
I dont believe 25% of Ignatius is non-catholic.
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Dunno about Ignatius in particular, but that's not out of line with many other Catholic schools.

Wildcat97 said:
Unless the experience radically changed, you would have to really be good at faking it to not stick out.
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That sounds more like indoctrination than education.

Cross your arms during Mass; don't take Communion, etc., etc. It's not that big of a deal. Most of the Catholic kids go through the rituals out of habit rather than faith, anyway. No one is pointing at you because your indifference has tacit acceptance.
 
Oil Filter said:
From an outsider's perspective: there are only so many of the traditional Catholic families that were the foundation of Ignatius' success. That's a diminishing number, and an increasing percentage of what remains are choosing St. Ed over Ignatius. Additionally, St. Ed appears to be a bit more "flexible" in their admissions standards. Taken together, that's a large part of the talent gap.
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Appears from what? I’d love to know how you’re privy to any information about St. Edward’s admission.
 
Oil Filter said:
Dunno about Ignatius in particular, but that's not out of line with many other Catholic schools.


That sounds more like indoctrination than education.

Cross your arms during Mass; don't take Communion, etc., etc. It's not that big of a deal. Most of the Catholic kids go through the rituals out of habit rather than faith, anyway. No one is pointing at you because your indifference has tacit acceptance.
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I'm talking about school mass etc. It's really not any different than if a non Baptist goes to a Baptist service. Same point.

Also, not sure one would compare a catholic school as far and catholic enrollment percentage breakdown between a place like Ignatius compared to a another place that might not attract as many students from suburbs. Apples and oranges.

As far as catholic rituals, another discussion for another day and forum. In short, I dont disagree for many people.
 
Can St Eds really have a hold on all of the talent in Cleveland? Cleveland is a big city.

What else is holding them back? Is it deeper than just not getting enough talent?

Elder 4-5 years ago was on the verge of really having a sustained decline in enrollment (consolidation of Catholic schools), but vouchers has really sprung up their enrollment again - but they haven't expanded outside their feeders to get athletes. The talent gap is very evident, but Ramsey is a great coach that keeps them relevant.
 
I once went to an Ignatius-Massillon game and set next to a nice west side couple. They said their son loved Ignatius and were very happy they sent him there. The kicker was that they were Jewish (both doctors of course) and had no problems with their son attending weekly mass and other Catholic rituals, though their Jewish relatives were horrified at the idea.
 
Oil Filter said:
From an outsider's perspective: there are only so many of the traditional Catholic families that were the foundation of Ignatius' success. That's a diminishing number, and an increasing percentage of what remains are choosing St. Ed over Ignatius. Additionally, St. Ed appears to be a bit more "flexible" in their admissions standards. Taken together, that's a large part of the talent gap.
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I second this outsider perspective. The ‘flexible’ part is a critical element of this explanation
 
Myron said:
I second this outsider perspective. The ‘flexible’ part is a critical element of this explanation
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Your outside observation is very interesting . I wonder if the St. Edward posters would agree, but that would be a question posed on the St. Edward thread.
 
Wildcat97 said:
Your outside observation is very interesting . I wonder if the St. Edward posters would agree, but that would be a question posed on the St. Edward thread
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The flexible admission standards is comical. Iv also heard from iggy alumni we let a certain element in with the voucher system that they don’t because they don’t use it…… then they were shocked when they found out they have had the ed choice program longer then Ed’s.

At this point I’d be hard pressed do say academically any school is better then the other. No one is turning down applications by the boat load. Iv seen kids from all walks of life attend both schools and succeed. You gotta put the work in period.

the blue collar vs white collar stigma have been gone a long time. Both are excellent schools with the top athletic programs in the state.

No one will ever replace Chuck Kyle , the timing of Ed’s along with the constant run of state championships has kept the talent at Ed’s higher the last 15 yrs. Having Lombardo take over for Finotti and continue the success has also payd dividends.
 
Doublehelix said:
Can St Eds really have a hold on all of the talent in Cleveland? Cleveland is a big city.

What else is holding them back? Is it deeper than just not getting enough talent?

Elder 4-5 years ago was on the verge of really having a sustained decline in enrollment (consolidation of Catholic schools), but vouchers has really sprung up their enrollment again - but they haven't expanded outside their feeders to get athletes. The talent gap is very evident, but Ramsey is a great coach that keeps them relevant.
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No, and they don't. Lombardo has shown he can win with blue-chip players or with FCS/D2/D3 types (like 2018 for example). The strength of the program going back years now has been the trenches and a mobile QB that can execute the read-option at a high level. Offensive line coach Dan Scanlon has been the constant presence on the staff dating back to the Gibbons days. He does a great job developing the bigs and we have been a magnet for quality offensive lineman in his time as a coach here. Ditto with mobile, athletic QB's (often multi-sport athletes).

Edit: To add to this, I also think Ed's does a really good job with their summer clinics for youth players. A lot of former and current Ed's players come back to give instruction and work with the kids. I think that sells a lot of players and family on the program who may have had no prior affiliation with the school or with Catholic education. I can't speak to what Ignatius is currently doing (I know they run clinics as well), but the biggest thing I personally hear from families who choose St. Edward is that their kid was really sold on the brotherhood during the clinics or open houses. I just think we are doing far more in terms of promoting the football program than the Cats at the moment. As their alums will tell you, soccer, hockey, rubgy have priority at the moment.
 
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I'm curious what is different between St. X and St. Ignatius? Both are run by the Jesuits. Is St. X still good because of Coach Specht although they are having a tough year this year. But St. X is still one of the top schools in Region 4 every year while St. Ignatius seems to slipped a lot since Coach Kyle retired. WIth the Jezzie pride I'm surprised to see the slippage.
 
St. X was 4-6 with an early playoff exit last year and is 3-4 this year with similar prospects in a few weeks.

The reality (at least from an Eds guy who has just as many Ignatius alum friends as Eds) is Ignatius' player base from their glory days just doesn't exist in big numbers anymore, as others have pointed out. CYO football is practically dead in Cleveland. OLA (an Ignatius player factory up until 10 years ago) hasn't had their own team for years. Kyle followed the Ignatius Way religiously (CYO kids, legacy players, etc) and it worked wonders for the overwhelming majority of his career. But I think all of us saw something like this coming when he left, although I never thought it would be this bad for Ignatius.

I thought Ignatius would go through a rough transition period, but the reality is they are rebuilding the entire program with some familiar faces on the sidelines.
 
The glaring lack of talent and speed would have been apparent no matter what, but this schedule expedited it.

No pity should fall on the program. The school has more than enough resources to not be this bad. I just wonder how long parents will be patient if next season is the same.
 
If your an ignatius alumni does this stretch of horrible football and sub par coaching, make you send your sons to their home school or even consider St Ed’s ? If your son is passionate about football! Honest question. I asked same question to a ignatius dad, and he said as much as he hates St Ed’s . He would have sent him their! It would have crushed him. But he would have had very little joy the last few years.
 
World breaker hulk 282 said:
If your an ignatius alumni does this stretch of horrible football and sub par coaching, make you send your sons to their home school or even consider St Ed’s ? If your son is passionate about football! Honest question. I asked same question to a ignatius dad, and he said as much as he hates St Ed’s . He would have sent him their! It would have crushed him. But he would have had very little joy the last few years.
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Simple answer.....no. I reap the benefits of my Ignatius education and experience almost every day. It is bigger than a sport
 
Wildcat97 said:
Simple answer.....no. I reap the benefits of my Ignatius education and experience almost every day. It is bigger than a sport
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My question wasn’t for your thoughts ,it was if you had a football player or an incredible wrestler. Would you allow them to choose St Ed’s?
Your an ignatius hawk. I know it wouldn’t change your views of returning. But if you had a son coming up that was incredible wrestler or football player. Would you consider it?
If he was incredible soccer or baseball or rugby player no need to consider. Ignatius is the right school for that. I never thought my son would go to St Ed’s but he loved football. And he wanted to try and see if he could compete at the highest level. I gave him other schools to choose from .
He chose Ed’s. And we are both happy he did.
I was willing to move districts to get him into a better football school. With better opportunities to win and compete. But it was easier to just pay then to move. So making that highschool decision is not easy. We do things for our children to give them the best opportunities. And right now St Ed’s is the best Catholic ,football ,wrestling program in northeast Ohio.
 
PDC said:
The glaring lack of talent and speed would have been apparent no matter what, but this schedule expedited it.

No pity should fall on the program. The school has more than enough resources to not be this bad. I just wonder how long parents will be patient if next season is the same.
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I agree with this completely. The school is one of the largest boys schools in the state with talent seemingly in all their other athletic programs. The football problem is a program problem. Great weight room, a fieldhouse right? plenty of athletic fields, with more plans to add onto their Athletic infrastructure. I mean I feel like most coaches would love to have all of that. Don't get me wrong, contending with Ed's current hold on things is no small feat and that's something Ed's has worked on for 25 years since they hired Gibbons I think, but Ignatius should never be a 1 win regular season team.
 
World breaker hulk 282 said:
My question wasn’t for your thoughts ,it was if you had a football player or an incredible wrestler. Would you allow them to choose St Ed’s?
Your an ignatius hawk. I know it wouldn’t change your views of returning. But if you had a son coming up that was incredible wrestler or football player. Would you consider it?
If he was incredible soccer or baseball or rugby player no need to consider. Ignatius is the right school for that. I never thought my son would go to St Ed’s but he loved football. And he wanted to try and see if he could compete at the highest level. I gave him other schools to choose from .
He chose Ed’s. And we are both happy he did.
I was willing to move districts to get him into a better football school. With better opportunities to win and compete. But it was easier to just pay then to move. So making that highschool decision is not easy. We do things for our children to give them the best opportunities. And right now St Ed’s is the best Catholic ,football ,wrestling program in northeast Ohio.
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Of course. If football/wrestling is important in his life, then, by all means, he made the right choice. St. Edward is a fine institution. If I lived in Solon, I would seriously consider sending my son to Solon Public Schools rather than Ignatius, depending on what his interests were. No one, except maybe the most hardened supporters, believes that Ignatius is the "Be all and end all" for everyone. Go with your head and your heart; whatever is best for your children.
 
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In the same vain as much as I absolutely hate Ignatius with everything in me….. if my son when he gets to that age shadows both and picks the wildcats over my eagles then it is what it is…. There both great programs and I also have just as many wildcat alum friends as I do eagle ones. The education is equal , it’s what the student puts in period.

Personally when I made my choice yrs ago Gibbons style of coaching along with Gregg urbus made it an easy decision over coach Kyle. First one in my family to attend a private school so I had no skin the game either way.

Both are incredible powerhouses in education, athletics and humans in general.
 
EagleFan said:
No sons, but yeah my wife and I were both given opportunity to choose our high school in 8th grade, so my daughter gets that option too.
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Same, my Dad was Ignatius grad but I was allowed to choose. I took exams for Padua and Ignatius. My heart was always Ignatius, and actually tested better (got personal call in 8th grade from Karl Ertle because of score), and rest is history. I imagine my heart helped the better score.

But wherever I would have chosen I would have been supported in that decision
 
edsfootball10 said:
In the same vain as much as I absolutely hate Ignatius with everything in me….. if my son when he gets to that age shadows both and picks the wildcats over my eagles then it is what it is…. There both great programs and I also have just as many wildcat alum friends as I do eagle ones. The education is equal , it’s what the student puts in period.

Personally when I made my choice yrs ago Gibbons style of coaching along with Gregg urbus made it an easy decision over coach Kyle. First one in my family to attend a private school so I had no skin the game either way.

Both are incredible powerhouses in education, athletics and humans in general.
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I know you're using sports talk and not being serious, but I really wish we could get rid of the word " Hate" when it comes to a sports opponent, or just about anyone in general.
 
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