2022-23 Division IV Boys Basketball Poll Voting Discussion

[187xovr]

They are basically stepping on the other schools and they will get what they deserve when attendance at games and just interest in general goes down because of decisions like this.

Cornerstone Christian has been in the Norton district the last two years, but I'm pretty sure they have usually been in another district (Orwell?) for most of the last 10 years. When they won the state title and were state runners up, they were not in the district with the other Cleveland teams. Richmond Heights has usually been in the Cleveland area district (Strongsville, Garfield Heights, Norton), but they have been sent to the eastern districts many times before as well. Teams like Oberlin, Columbia, and Hillsdale are geographical outliers who can swing decisions like this when they are D4. Oberlin has been D3 for awhile until this year. The Norton district this year is very similar to the old Strongsville D4 district many years ago. Kidron Central Christian, Dalton, Oberlin, and Open Door were normally the top teams in that district.

For every school that this hurts, it helps another school. Look at a team like Independence. They have only made the district tournament once in recent memory. They were easily good enough to challenge for district championships in most D4 districts statewide the last 4 years. I am sure their attendance, success, etc would have been much better if they were not in the Norton district all of those years. Sometimes you cannot avoid the great divide in competition. For instance, Berlin Hiland makes it to the state tournament almost every year. They are usually overwhelmed once they get there. I think they lost 62-20 last year or something like that. Not much the OHSAA can do about that because of their geographic location. Here, they can do something about it and they did it. Is it perfect? No. But it is better than it was before. Making a super district with three brackets is probably a better idea than this, but you would still end up with the best three teams in different brackets if you did that.

 

[cantons78]

Cornerstone Christian has been in the Norton district the last two years, but I'm pretty sure they have usually been in another district (Orwell?) for most of the last 10 years. When they won the state title and were state runners up, they were not in the district with the other Cleveland teams. Richmond Heights has usually been in the Cleveland area district (Strongsville, Garfield Heights, Norton), but they have been sent to the eastern districts many times before as well. Teams like Oberlin, Columbia, and Hillsdale are geographical outliers who can swing decisions like this when they are D4. Oberlin has been D3 for awhile until this year. The Norton district this year is very similar to the old Strongsville D4 district many years ago. Kidron Central Christian, Dalton, Oberlin, and Open Door were normally the top teams in that district.

For every school that this hurts, it helps another school. Look at a team like Independence. They have only made the district tournament once in recent memory. They were easily good enough to challenge for district championships in most D4 districts statewide the last 4 years. I am sure their attendance, success, etc would have been much better if they were not in the Norton district all of those years. Sometimes you cannot avoid the great divide in competition. For instance, Berlin Hiland makes it to the state tournament almost every year. They are usually overwhelmed once they get there. I think they lost 62-20 last year or something like that. Not much the OHSAA can do about that because of their geographic location. Here, they can do something about it and they did it. Is it perfect? No. But it is better than it was before. Making a super district with three brackets is probably a better idea than this, but you would still end up with the best three teams in different brackets if you did that.

You mentioned geographic location. Independence is close to Richmond Heights, sorry. What are the determining factors for placing teams? Are one of the factors if you are a good team at basketball? It's called districts. They moved those 2 teams and no others. And now one has 28 teams and the other 11? What you are saying makes sense but come on now... I'm done, have nothing else to say...

 

[187xovr]

You mentioned geographic location. What are the determining factors for placing teams? Are one of the factors if you are a good team at basketball? It's called districts. They moved those 2 teams and no others. And now one has 28 teams and the other 11? What you are saying makes sense but come on now... I'm done, have nothing else to say...

Andrews Osborne and Fairport Harding moved from the Norton district to the super district as well.

 

[cantons78]

Andrews Osborne and Fairport Harding moved from the Norton district to the super district as well.

And why? 28 teams vs 11...

 

[187xovr]

And why? 28 teams vs 11...

I am guessing because of geography. All of the teams in NE 3 are within 45-50 minutes or less of each other. Loudonville dropping to D4 surely had something to do with this as well. Loudonville or Hillsdale to any of the schools that moved to the super district is excessive travel.

 

[187xovr]

I am guessing because of geography. All of the teams in NE 3 are within 45-50 minutes or less of each other. Loudonville dropping to D4 surely had something to do with this as well. Loudonville or Hillsdale to any of the schools that moved to the super district is excessive travel.

But I agree that an 11 team district is almost unheard of.

 

[187xovr]

But I agree that an 11 team district is almost unheard of.

I think this should have been a three bracket super district for the last 3 years. It made the most sense to me for the last three years and this year. It still has not happened.

 

[cantons78]

Richmond and Cornerstone are geographically closer to Norton than Grand Valley or Struthers so explain that with 28 teams vs 11.

 

[cantons78]

Richmond Heights lost four really good seniors, including two D1 players. They still have a major D1 prospect and another mid major D1 prospect playing guard for them. They will be really young but extremely talented. Cornerstone lost a couple of solid seniors, but their main scoring, defending, and rebounding threats are back. Cornerstone will be really hard to beat in March. Dalton lost their best ball handler and leading scorer in program history (same kid) and a scholarship football player, but they return everyone else. They will have 6-7 seniors in their rotation led by 2 returning All Ohio players, one which will go to college for free. I am not as familiar with the personnel at Warren JFK, but I do know they have had some really good teams in the past.

Goatman, do you have a breakdown of Warren JFK’s basketball squad?

What numbers did Cornerstone lose?

 

[kingpin2010]

Richmond and Cornerstone getting moved over is silly, but the whole Super District itself is stupid imo. But the draw will be super predictable, assuming Richmond is the 1, the next 4-5 schools will go to the other district until you get to one who feels they would rather have a decent shot at a district runner-up than battling it out in the sectional round, same for the 3rd team to jump into RH district. After that, I would not be surprised if the other district gets completely full or close to it before someone else jumps to be the 4 seed in RH district.

 

[cantons78]

Richmond and Cornerstone getting moved over is silly, but the whole Super District itself is stupid imo. But the draw will be super predictable, assuming Richmond is the 1, the next 4-5 schools will go to the other district until you get to one who feels they would rather have a decent shot at a district runner-up than battling it out in the sectional round, same for the 3rd team to jump into RH district. After that, I would not be surprised if the other district gets completely full or close to it before someone else jumps to be the 4 seed in RH district.

Agreed. Just go back to the individual districts or put them all together if going to pull this crap. Look at who is on the Northeast Athletic Board. Interesting. There is no reasonable explanation that 2 teams that are closer to Norton should be put into a superdistrict at Grand Valley and Struthers. Other teams closer in proximity were passed up and 28 teams vs 11. Those 2 teams go where they should, it would be 26 and 13, do the Math. It's wrong... If you want to give Mogadore and Dalton a shot then move them, not the other 2 teams...

 

[kingpin2010]

Agreed. Just go back to the individual districts or put them all together if going to pull this crap. Look at who is on the Northeast Athletic Board. Interesting. There is no reasonable explanation that 2 teams that are closer to Norton should be put into a superdistrict at Grand Valley and Struthers. Other teams closer in proximity were passed up and 28 teams vs 11. Those 2 teams go where they should, it would be 26 and 13, do the Math. It's wrong... If you want to give Mogadore and Dalton a shot then move them, not the other 2 teams...

Just go back to geographic, even if it means lopsided districts because that’s what’s going to happen anyway. Heck in 2020-21 the best 2 teams (JFK and McDonald) ended up in the same district to avoid a regional semi pairing with RH. Now the districts will be super lopsided with RH on one side and anyone else who thinks they can win the district on the other. Not to mention some of the ridiculous travel that may occur

 

[187xovr]

Richmond and Cornerstone are geographically closer to Norton than Grand Valley or Struthers so explain that with 28 teams vs 11.

Richmond and Cornerstone getting moved over is silly, but the whole Super District itself is stupid imo. But the draw will be super predictable, assuming Richmond is the 1, the next 4-5 schools will go to the other district until you get to one who feels they would rather have a decent shot at a district runner-up than battling it out in the sectional round, same for the 3rd team to jump into RH district. After that, I would not be surprised if the other district gets completely full or close to it before someone else jumps to be the 4 seed in RH district.

I think this has to do as much with who left D4 and who entered D4 as anything. NE 3 does not have any Cleveland area teams in it at all. Independence and Cuyahoga Heights both jumped to D3. Loudonville (the biggest geographic outlier) and Oberlin dropped from D3 to D4. NE 3 are 11 teams who are mostly far west or far south of Cleveland. Norton is a bizarre location to hold the district tournament. Going back to Strongsville or even going to Wooster would have made more sense, although you never know who is willing to host these tournaments.

What numbers did Cornerstone lose?

Richmond and Cornerstone getting moved over is silly, but the whole Super District itself is stupid imo. But the draw will be super predictable, assuming Richmond is the 1, the next 4-5 schools will go to the other district until you get to one who feels they would rather have a decent shot at a district runner-up than battling it out in the sectional round, same for the 3rd team to jump into RH district. After that, I would not be surprised if the other district gets completely full or close to it before someone else jumps to be the 4 seed in RH district.

Cornerstone lost 2 impact players, but they have kids who are just as talented moving into those positions. I think Cornerstone in March of 2023 will be much better than Cornerstone in March of 2022. I do not expect teams to pile into Cornerstone's district to avoid Richmond Heights. I view those teams as equally likely to win the state tournament this year. I would favor Richmond Heights by 5-10 points if the game happened right now. Richmond Heights did bring in a kid from Cleveland Heights this fall that will boost their roster significantly from a size and athleticism aspect. That game will be the most anticipated D4 tournament game if it materializes. Richmond Heights is the biggest D4 team in Ohio when you combine enrollment with competitive balance. One would think that they would be headed to D3 soon. Cornerstone Christian should be D4 for the foreseeable future.