2022-23 Division IV Boys Basketball Poll Voting Discussion

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Vote Here

We will have a basketball poll for the 2022-23 season. We will use this thread to discuss the top 10 teams for Division IV. The poll to vote in will come out much closer to the season. Use this thread to discuss the top teams in Division IV this year.

2022-23 Division IV Basketball Schools:
Academy For Urban Scholars Youngstown (Youngstown)
Ada (Ada)
Andrews Osborne Academy (Willoughby)
Ansonia (Ansonia)
Antwerp (Antwerp)
Arcadia (Arcadia)
Arlington (Arlington)
Ayersville (Defiance)
Badger (Kinsman)
Beallsville (Beallsville)
Berne Union (Sugar Grove)
Bishop Rosecrans (Zanesville)
Bloomfield (N Bloomfield)
Botkins (Botkins)
Bradford (Bradford)
Bridgeport (Bridgeport)
Bristol (Bristolville)
Buckeye Central (New Washington)
Caldwell (Caldwell)
Calvert (Tiffin)
Cardinal (Middlefield)
Cardinal Stritch Catholic (Oregon)
Catholic Central (Steubenville)
Catholic Central (Springfield)
Cedarville (Cedarville)
Central Christian (Kidron)
Chalker (Southington)
Cincinnati Christian (Fairfield)
Cincinnati College Preparatory Academy (Cincinnati)
Clay (Portsmouth)
Colonel Crawford (North Robinson)
Conotton Valley (Bowerston)
Continental (Continental)
Cornerstone Christian (Willoughby)
Cory-Rawson (Rawson)
Covington (Covington)
Crestline (Crestline)
Crestview (Convoy)
Dalton (Dalton)
Danbury (Lakeside)
Danville (Danville)
David Anderson (Lisbon)
Dayton Christian (Miamisburg)
Delaware Christian School (Delaware)
East Dayton Christian School (Dayton)
Eastern (Beaver)
Eastern (Reedsville)
Edgerton (Edgerton)
Edon (Edon)
Emmanuel Christian Academy (Springfield)
Fairfield (Leesburg)
Fairfield Christian Academy (Lancaster)
Fairlawn (Sidney)
Fairport Harding (Fairport Harbor)
Fayette (Fayette)
Fayetteville-Perry (Fayetteville)
Federal Hocking (Stewart)
Fisher Catholic (Lancaster)
Fort Jennings (Fort Jennings)
Fort Loramie (Fort Loramie)
Fort Recovery (Fort Recovery)
Franklin Monroe (Arcanum)
Frontier (New Matamoras)
Gibsonburg (Gibsonburg)
Glenwood (New Boston)
Grand Valley (Orwell)
Granville Christian Academy (Granville)
Green (Franklin Furnace)
Hardin Northern (Dola)
Heartland Christian School (Columbiana)
Hiland (Berlin)
Hillcrest Training School (Cincinnati)
Hillsdale (Jeromesville)
Hilltop (West Unity)
Holgate (Holgate)
Hopewell-Loudon (Bascom)
Jackson Center (Jackson Center)
Jackson-Milton (North Jackson)
Jefferson (Delphos)
Jefferson Twp (Dayton)
John F Kennedy (Warren)
Kalida (Kalida)
Lake Center Christian School (Hartville)
Lake Ridge Academy (North Ridgeville)
Leetonia (Leetonia)
Legacy Christian Academy (Xenia)
Lehman Catholic (Sidney)
Leipsic (Leipsic)
Liberty Christian Academy (Pataskala)
Lincolnview (Van Wert)
Lockland (Lockland)
Lordstown (Warren)
Loudonville (Loudonville)
Lowellville (Lowellville)
Lucas (Lucas)
Madison Christian (Groveport)
Manchester (Manchester)
Mansfield Christian (Mansfield)
Mapleton (Ashland)
Maplewood (Cortland)
Marion Local (Maria Stein)
Mathews (Vienna)
Maumee Valley Country Day (Toledo)
Mc Comb (Mc Comb)
Mcdonald (Mcdonald)
Mechanicsburg (Mechanicsburg)
Miami Valley Christian Academy (Cincinnati)
Miami Valley School (Dayton)
Middletown Christian (Franklin)
Miller (Corning)
Miller City (Miller City)
Millersport (Millersport)
Minster (Minster)
Mississinawa Valley (Union City)
Mogadore (Mogadore)
Mohawk (Sycamore)
Monroe Central (Woodsfield)
Monroeville (Monroeville)
Montpelier (Montpelier)
New Bremen (New Bremen)
New Knoxville (New Knoxville)
New London (New London)
New Miami (Hamilton)
New Riegel (New Riegel)
Newark Catholic (Newark)
Newcomerstown (Newcomerstown)
Newton Local (Pleasant Hill)
North Baltimore (North Baltimore)
North Central (Pioneer)
Northmor (Galion)
Northside Christian (Westerville)
Notre Dame (Portsmouth)
Oberlin (Oberlin)
Old Fort (Tiffin)
Open Door Christian (Elyria)
Ottoville (Ottoville)
Oyler (Cincinnati)
Paint Valley (Bainbridge)
Pandora-Gilboa (Pandora)
Patrick Henry (Hamler)
Patriot Preparatory Academy (Columbus)
Perry (Lima)
Pettisville (Pettisville)
Plymouth (Plymouth)
Richmond Heights (Richmond Hts)
Ridgedale (Morral)
Ridgemont (Mt. Victory)
Ripley-Union-Lewis-Huntington (Ripley)
Rittman (Rittman)
River (Hannibal)
Riverside (De Graff)
Riverview East Academy (Cincinnati)
Russia (Russia)
School For Creative Performing Arts (Cincinnati)
Sciotoville Community (Portsmouth)
Sebring Mc Kinley (Sebring)
Seneca East (Attica)
Shadyside (Shadyside)
Shekinah Christian (Plain City)
Shenandoah (Sarahsville)
South Central (Greenwich)
South Gallia (Crown City)
South Webster (South Webster)
Southeastern Local (South Charleston)
Southern (Racine)
Southern Local (Salineville)
Spencer Center (Cincinnati)
Springfield (New Middletown)
St Bernard-Elmwood Place (St Bernard)
St Henry (St Henry)
St John School (Ashtabula)
St John's (Delphos)
St Joseph Central (Ironton)
St Joseph Central Catholic (Fremont)
St Mary Central Catholic (Sandusky)
St Paul (Norwalk)
St Peter's (Mansfield)
Strasburg-Franklin (Strasburg)
Stryker (Stryker)
Symmes Valley (Willow Wood)
Temple Christian (Lima)
Toledo Christian (Toledo)
Toronto (Toronto)
Triad (North Lewisburg)
Tri-County North (Lewisburg)
Trimble (Glouster)
Troy Christian (Troy)
Tuscarawas Central Catholic (New Philadelphia)
Twin Valley South (West Alexandria)
Upper Scioto Valley (Mc Guffey)
Vanlue (Vanlue)
Waterford (Waterford)
Waynesfield-Goshen (Waynesfield)
Wellington School (Columbus)
Wellsville (Wellsville)
Western (Latham)
Western Reserve (Berlin Center)
Whiteoak (Mowrystown)
Windham (Windham)
Woodmore (Elmore)
Yellow Springs (Yellow Springs)
 
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Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Final AP Poll from 2021-22 Season:
DIVISION IV
1. Botkins (2) (20-2) 97
1. Tiffin Calvert (7) (22-0) 97
3. Antwerp (1) (21-1) 93
4. Richmond Hts. (1) (18-4) 66
5. New Madison Tri-Village (19-3) 61
6. Spring. Cath. Cent. (20-2) 45
7. Glouster Trimble (19-1) 44
8. New Bremen (17-4) 26
(tie). Lucasville Valley (17-4) 26
10. Castalia Margaretta (19-3) 17
(tie) Berlin Hiland (17-4) 17
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Top 15 from Martin RPI for the 2021-22 Season:
1 Richmond Heights [0.8541] (18-4)
2 Tiffin Calvert [0.8524] (22-0)
3 Berlin Hiland [0.8522] (17-4)
4 Margaretta [0.8476] (19-3)
5 Springfield Catholic Central [0.8425] (20-2)
6 Hannibal River [0.8356] (19-2)
7 Antwerp [0.8298] (21-1)
8 Dalton [0.8271] (18-4)
9 Tri-Village [0.8237] (19-3)
10 Marion Local [0.821] (18-4)
11 Botkins [0.8149] (20-2)
12 Lucasville Valley [0.8147] (17-4)
13 Mathews [0.8145] (21-1)
14 Trimble [0.8122] (19-1)
15 Cedarville [0.8118] (18-4)
 

187xovr

Active member
Really? Richmond Heights?
Not sure what was more impressive last year. Richmond Heights winning every game by double digits all the way through the tournament, or Richmond Heights blowing out Tri Village in the state title game with their best player and West Virginia commit sitting on the sidelines in street clothes. They were head and shoulders above everyone else in D4 last year.
 

187xovr

Active member
Did any of these teams lose any key pieces from last year?
Richmond Heights lost four really good seniors, including two D1 players. They still have a major D1 prospect and another mid major D1 prospect playing guard for them. They will be really young but extremely talented. Cornerstone lost a couple of solid seniors, but their main scoring, defending, and rebounding threats are back. Cornerstone will be really hard to beat in March. Dalton lost their best ball handler and leading scorer in program history (same kid) and a scholarship football player, but they return everyone else. They will have 6-7 seniors in their rotation led by 2 returning All Ohio players, one which will go to college for free. I am not as familiar with the personnel at Warren JFK, but I do know they have had some really good teams in the past.

Goatman, do you have a breakdown of Warren JFK’s basketball squad?
 

LetsGoBig

Active member
I watched Richmond Heights beat Moeller this summer by about 12 or 14. I would say they will win d4 again this year handily.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Not sure what was more impressive last year. Richmond Heights winning every game by double digits all the way through the tournament, or Richmond Heights blowing out Tri Village in the state title game with their best player and West Virginia commit sitting on the sidelines in street clothes. They were head and shoulders above everyone else in D4 last year.
Last year was exactly that last year. Before last year how many state titles had RH won. Several years ago, very few posters gave Botkins any chance of beating RH, before that Cornerstone was supposed to run Marion Local off the court. Is it ok if the rest of the state play the season out or just stop after the regionals and hand RH's the crown?
 

LetsGoBig

Active member
Last year was exactly that last year. Before last year how many state titles had RH won. Several years ago, very few posters gave Botkins any chance of beating RH, before that Cornerstone was supposed to run Marion Local off the court. Is it ok if the rest of the state play the season out or just stop after the regionals and hand RH's the crown?
I would agree with this. Never know who can come out and give them a game. Not sure if there is anyone out there, but we will see what happens.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
Last year was exactly that last year. Before last year how many state titles had RH won. Several years ago, very few posters gave Botkins any chance of beating RH, before that Cornerstone was supposed to run Marion Local off the court. Is it ok if the rest of the state play the season out or just stop after the regionals and hand RH's the crown?
I have seen many a state championship game at the small school level, that Marion Local game vs Cornerstone is for me the all-time example of why we play the games out to determine the winner. Cornerstone was superior in every aspect of the game and had far greater talent, what they ran into was a tough group of kids who were mentally determined to give every bit of effort they could muster to upset a team that should have won by 20 points. Great example of grit over talent.
 
I have seen many a state championship game at the small school level, that Marion Local game vs Cornerstone is for me the all-time example of why we play the games out to determine the winner. Cornerstone was superior in every aspect of the game and had far greater talent, what they ran into was a tough group of kids who were mentally determined to give every bit of effort they could muster to upset a team that should have won by 20 points. Great example of grit over talent.
Agreed. Cornerstone Christian should have won that game by a lot. Marion local hung around and took it to them. Cornerstone had way better athletes by far and Michael Bothwell was an absolute menace for Cornerstone that year. Still not sure why Cornerstone played zone against Marion local and ran a full court press the game before in State Semis against Berlin Hiland.
 

Flyer_pride

New member
Agreed. Cornerstone Christian should have won that game by a lot. Marion local hung around and took it to them. Cornerstone had way better athletes by far and Michael Bothwell was an absolute menace for Cornerstone that year. Still not sure why Cornerstone played zone against Marion local and ran a full court press the game before in State Semis against Berlin Hiland.
Actually, Cornerstone Christian came out and full court pressed Marion Local that game and they tore it apart for about 6 to 8 quick points until Cornerstone took a time out and went to the zone. Marion's big men were excellent ball handlers and passers that year and they just backdoored or threw over the top of the shorter guards when they were doubled. I believe they zoned Marion Local because they had more skilled big men that could finish in the post and they took their chances on Marion Local not shooting the 3 as well (which it was the right move for that game). Another thing that helped out is that the officials let them play in the paint and Marion was way more physical in the paint that game (4 of the 5 starters were football players and super physical). If the game would have been called tight, Marion Local would have had a lot of foul trouble like they did in the state semi final game against Pandora Gilboa.
 
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Actually, Cornerstone Christian came out and full court pressed Marion Local that game and they tore it apart for about 6 to 8 quick points until Cornerstone took a time out and went to the zone. Marion's big men were excellent ball handlers and passers that year and they just backdoored or through over the top of the shorter guards when they were doubled. I believe they zoned Marion Local because they had more skilled big men that could finish in the post and they took their chances on Marion Local not shooting the 3 as well (which it was the right move for that game). Another thing that helped out is that the officials let them play in the paint and Marion was way more physical in the paint that game (4 of the 5 starters were football players and super physical). If the game would have been called tight, Marion Local would have had a lot of foul trouble like they did in the state semi final game against Pandora Gilboa.
I disagree. Marion Local’s point guard literally could not dribble with his left hand. Hiland had better ball handlers than Marion. Cornerstone played all D1 Cleveland schools that whole year so I don’t believe they couldn’t pressure Marion. Cornerstone’s coach made some real questionable decisions that game.
 

Flyer_pride

New member
I disagree. Marion Local’s point guard literally could not dribble with his left hand. Hiland had better ball handlers than Marion. Cornerstone played all D1 Cleveland schools that whole year so I don’t believe they couldn’t pressure Marion. Cornerstone’s coach made some real questionable decisions that game.
Marion attacked the full court press by getting the ball to their big man just before half court on the side off the inbound pass. Their press offense then has a cutter sprint past the big man up the middle of the court for a quick pass to try and create a 2 on 1 fast break. If you watch the beginning of the game, Marion did that a few times in the 1st quarter and CC took the press off.
 
Marion attacked the full court press by getting the ball to their big man just before half court on the side off the inbound pass. Their press offense then has a cutter sprint past the big man up the middle of the court for a quick pass to try and create a 2 on 1 fast break. If you watch the beginning of the game, Marion did that a few times in the 1st quarter and CC took the press off.
I just don’t agree with that. I played against Cornerstone and watched them play against Marion. Marion did what they needed to do but I would say Cornerstone underperformed and the coaching was subpar. Marion had two kids that were real solid and the others were not very good ballhandlers.
 

187xovr

Active member
The Northeast district should be ashamed of what they did to the districts this year...
They moved Richmond Heights and Cornerstone (among others) to the super district with the teams to the east of them. These districts are never easy to figure out with such huge travel times involved. Hillsdale played an opening round game at Andrews Osborne last year. That is an incredible trip to have to make for a Tuesday night game. The travel in Hillsdale's district is much more reasonable now.

From a competition standpoint, this should have been done a few years ago. Many people think Richmond Heights, Cornerstone, and Dalton were the top 3 D4 teams in Ohio last year. No reason to have them all in the same district. That Norton district has been absolutely loaded for the last 3-4 years. Teams like Open Door in 2019 were a state final four level team who could not make it out of that district as well. St Thomas Aquinas made it to the regional finals last year out of the super district. They would have struggled to make it out of sectionals in the Norton district.
 

cantons78

Member
They moved Richmond Heights and Cornerstone (among others) to the super district with the teams to the east of them. These districts are never easy to figure out with such huge travel times involved. Hillsdale played an opening round game at Andrews Osborne last year. That is an incredible trip to have to make for a Tuesday night game. The travel in Hillsdale's district is much more reasonable now.

From a competition standpoint, this should have been done a few years ago. Many people think Richmond Heights, Cornerstone, and Dalton were the top 3 D4 teams in Ohio last year. No reason to have them all in the same district. That Norton district has been absolutely loaded for the last 3-4 years. Teams like Open Door in 2019 were a state final four level team who could not make it out of that district as well. St Thomas Aquinas made it to the regional finals last year out of the super district. They would have struggled to make it out of sectionals in the Norton district.
So we should just move teams out of districts based on competition? There is a reason they are called districts. To move 2 Cleveland teams to that district and leave the rest? The superdistrict now has 28 teams, the other 11. If anything they could have put all teams together and had 3 district winners. So we should reward those 3 schools and crap on the rest? It's bad sorry...
 

187xovr

Active member
So we should just move teams out of districts based on competition? There is a reason they are called districts. To move 2 Cleveland teams to that district and leave the rest? The superdistrict now has 28 teams, the other 11. If anything they could have put all teams together and had 3 district winners. So we should reward those 3 schools and crap on the rest? It's bad sorry...
I actually like the idea of moving all three together and making one super district with three brackets. That is what they did in other divisions the past few years in NE Ohio. The travel could be really bad if you did that in D4, but most teams would have some control over how far they travel for tournament games. I do like the idea of splitting up the best teams in tournament play whenever possible. Nobody wants to watch huge blowouts in the regional and/or state level games. If it is possible to get the best teams to match up later in the tournament, that is the way to go IMO.
 

cantons78

Member
I actually like the idea of moving all three together and making one super district with three brackets. That is what they did in other divisions the past few years in NE Ohio. The travel could be really bad if you did that in D4, but most teams would have some control over how far they travel for tournament games. I do like the idea of splitting up the best teams in tournament play whenever possible. Nobody wants to watch huge blowouts in the regional and/or state level games. If it is possible to get the best teams to match up later in the tournament, that is the way to go IMO.
They are basically stepping on the other schools and they will get what they deserve when attendance at games and just interest in general goes down because of decisions like this.
 
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