2020-2021 OHIO STATE BASKETBALL

bigkat

Well-known member
If fairness, none of these elite big men that OSU can’t land have pushed any other Big Ten teams to the Natty in over 20 years. Not saying an inside presence isn’t sorely needed. But to insist this is the primary reason that the Buckeyes collapsed in multiple late-game situations this season, or against ORU is disingenuous.
actuallly i think out NO discipline in their offense led to them losing in the closing moments of most of those games.. including the ORU game.... but with Young in the game against ORU, i think they win that game going away...
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
actuallly i think out NO discipline in their offense led to them losing in the closing moments of most of those games.. including the ORU game.... but with Young in the game against ORU, i think they win that game going away...
Can't be used as an excuse, but fatigue IMO was probably the biggest factor in the majority of their losses down the stretch. The majority of their starting five (Liddell, Seuing and Young) has been dinged up and limited outside of games for weeks.

Going forward, they need to get to a place where Washington is playing off the ball more in those situations. He's their best scorer and the guy they need taking the big shots, but his decision making is awful at times when left to create on his own.
 

y2h

Well-known member
I see all the Chicken Littles have predictably come out after the loss yesterday. Obviously an embarrassing performance, and it has made Holtmann's seat a bit hotter, but there is zero chance he is gone. Hopefully, this ensure Washington and Liddell's return and they make a heck of a run next year, ala Virginia.
Washington and Liddell are gone.
 

y2h

Well-known member
Of course the naysayers come out of the woodwork. Predictable as about 20% of Buckeye "fans" are not realistic.

Clearly the Buckeyes came out mentally unprepared; they looked like they expected to just win based on reputation. Holtmann accepted blame for that in the postgame presser. But the Bucks did play hard the 2nd half. As for the nitwits that want Holtmann fired, here are a couple of facts:

1) They do not hand out 2nd seeds to bad teams. They had a great year, and with the returning guys and a great recruiting class, the trajectory is up.
2) Holtmann was not 9-18 (50%) from the foul line, his team was. Been a strength all year (76%), had a bad day.
3) Holtmann was not 5-23 (21%) on 3-pointers, his team was. 36% all year, had a bad day.
4) Holtmann did not make the careless turnovers, his team did. 16 of them, averaged 10 per game all year.

A terrible game, and it hurts. Holtmann of course took the ownership in the post game, as you would expect from a quality man like him. Sure the preparation could have been different, but at the end of the day, a bunch of 20 year-olds who have been so mentally tough all year did not have the right frame of mind for the game. And it cost them.

My primary beef with Holtmann's plan was that he puts the ball in Duane's hands too much at clutch time. Duane is an electric scorer but yesterday he shot terribly. That ball had to be in CJ's hands and dumped in to EJ at the end of regulation. Should he be fired? only if you are an overly emotional child with ridiculous expectations. He is a solid coach, a quality man, and he recruits great kids. And he has the program moving up. Hope he is our coach for a long time.
Yeah how ridiculous your expectations have to be to expect to beat a 15 seed...

First round loss to a 15...clearly trending up.
 

y2h

Well-known member
Hopefully this is a quality learning experience for Holtmann.

One of the best coaches in college basketball, Tony Bennett, only got past the second round twice in his first eight years at UVA. In year nine they lost to a 16 seed before winning a championship the following year.
And then lost to a 13 seed...
 

y2h

Well-known member
they need a BIG dude underneath...... and I hope coach takes a serious look at the last 8 minutes of how he coached in their last 6 losses....chicken littles?really you think everything is good?
Losing streak going into the postseason, lose to a 15 seed....nothing to see here.
 

y2h

Well-known member
where are do you think those two guys are going, they are pretty good college players right now..... they aren't NBA players , right now
They are getting paid next year, theyd be fools to come back.
 

y2h

Well-known member
Maybe if they like the idea of being in the G-League or playing in Europe. Neither of those dudes are getting drafted, letting alone getting drafted high enough to safely make an NBA roster or get a guaranteed contract.
Of course they are. 2nd rounders get paid too.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Of course they are. 2nd rounders get paid too.
I don't know if either of these guys would be on very many top-100 boards. They aren't getting drafted. That's delusional.

Second round a large chunk of the picks are foreigners that teams intend to keep overseas or low ceiling guys that are expected to make an immediate impact off the bench. That's neither of these two.
 

The Ref

Active member
Free Throws .... Free Throws.........Free Throws ..... Make 'em and you win , Miss them and you get embarrassed !!! Looks like there is one team in Ohio that can make them.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I don't think there's any advantage to getting a jump start on a European career as the pro game over there tends to be very high I.Q. and extremely physical. Younger players, even those that have real NBA potential, usually seem to struggle to see the floor if they're playing in a good league.

You're better off being a 4-5 year college guy that continues to get experience and continues to get physically stronger before heading over there.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Both DW and Liddell are fringe 2nd rd picks, just on the outside. However you never know what is in the mind of a 20 or 21 year old, Maybe they don't like school or want to get paid to practice ( Europe or Japan ). If Liddell leaves it is a huge blow, no inside presence at all for OSU, if DW leaves also a big blow but not as serious as Liddell leaving. If both leave you can forget OSU bball being relevant for several years, once again Holtmann needs to up his game in recruiting, oh I forgot its Matta's fault. Hopefully both stay but it would not surprise me if one or both leave, one constant in OSU bball the last several years is nothing stays constant for a better lack of words.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Like I said Chris holtman can't coach.Team was totally unprepared.i saw this coming.
Dude you are not smart enough on a Sunday evening to see Monday coming.

Illinois, Texas, Purdue, North Carolina, Michigan State are all out of the tourney early also. Duke and Kentucky did not even get in. Should they fire their coaches also? Or should reasonable people realize that upsets happen, and sometimes 20 year old kids have bad days?
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I'm tired of hearing about Thad Matta. He was a great coach for a long time and a great guy, but he had to go. Having him coach from a stool in practice while the assistants run the show was not any viable short or long term strategy. There's a reason no one has hired him in the past four years, and if you don't understand it by now, you are beyond being helped.

This is Chris Holtmann's program now and he gets to own all of the good and bad that comes with it, including not having his marginally tournament experienced team prepared for a first round game against a low seed. It's his fault and he's been owning it. Overall I thought he did a good job this year given the talent on the roster, but in part that speaks to him needing to recruit better players. Offensively for spacing I don't think he cares much for having a true center, but in the Big Ten that's tough to get away with defensively. There has to be some balance there, and if he'd like to stay off the hot seat in the coming years, that's something he'll have to adjust strategy and recruiting around.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
m tired of hearing about Thad Matta. He was a great coach for a long time and a great guy, but he had to go. Having him coach from a stool in practice while the assistants run the show was not any viable short or long term strategy. There's a reason no one has hired him in the past four years, and if you don't understand it by now, you are beyond being helped.
LOL you and the other Holtmann apologist keep blaming Matta for Holtmann's shortcomings because he supposedly left the cupboard bare.
his is Chris Holtmann's program now and he gets to own all of the good and bad that comes with it, including not having his marginally tournament experienced team prepared for a first round game against a low seed. It's his fault and he's been owning it. Overall I thought he did a good job this year given the talent on the roster, but in part that speaks to him needing to recruit better players. Offensively for spacing I don't think he cares much for having a true center, but in the Big Ten that's tough to get away with defensively. There has to be some balance there, and if he'd like to stay off the hot seat in the coming years, that's something he'll have to adjust strategy and recruiting around.
This I agree 100 %, enough of the 4 year projects, recruit players like Oden, Conley, Turner, KBD, these are the type of players you win championships with, other than Liddell and maybe Washington Holtmann's recruiting has sucked and Etzler and Branham from what I saw of him yesterday ( maybe he just felt like he did not have to insert himself offensively yesterday ) are not going to make immediate impacts. Holtmann reminds me too much of another Eldon Miller.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
LOL you and the other Holtmann apologist keep blaming Matta for Holtmann's shortcomings because he supposedly left the cupboard bare.
It was pretty bare outside of Bates-Diop and Tate, and Bates-Diop wasn't a big time scorer until his last year with Holtmann. That doesn't matter at this point. It's all Holtmann's guys for better and worse now.

Regardless, my angle has always been that they pretty much had to get rid of Thad. He wasn't capable of doing the day-to-day job any more at the level he was elite at, and he didn't have anyone as good as Archie or Boals around him any more to make up for it. If health wasn't a legitimate problem, he would be coaching somewhere else by now as a number of Power 5 programs such as Georgia, Penn State and Wake Forest have reached out to him over the last few years.

This I agree 100 %, enough of the 4 year projects, recruit players like Oden, Conley, Turner, KBD, these are the type of players you win championships with, other than Liddell and maybe Washington Holtmann's recruiting has sucked and Etzler and Branham from what I saw of him yesterday ( maybe he just felt like he did not have to insert himself offensively yesterday ) are not going to make immediate impacts. Holtmann reminds me too much of another Eldon Miller.
Recruiting needs to be better, but between G-League and overseas I think it's getting to the point it will be nearly impossible to get somebody like Oden or Conley again that's a top 5-10 national prospect. In-state talent has been way down since the 2016 class, but starting with Branham there are a few higher rated recruits on the horizon. They've been taking too many lower rated guys the last few years. Even if there's only one top-60 or top-80 kid to be had in Ohio, you should be able to raid Indiana, Michigan and Illinois for a couple top-100 four star players to fill out a class. They shouldn't be leaving that footprint to get a lower rated kid like Eugene Brown or Zed Key from outside the region.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
As an aside, the biggest recruiting pain and probably the only transfer that has hurt in the Holtmann era has been losing Carton. In the era we seem to be entering where there are legit pro options after high school that's the type of multi-year kid you need to get, somebody that's a top 30-40 recruit that will probably be a 3-4 year college player. Evan Turner and Bates-Diop were also in that top 30-40 sweet spot.

Carton would have helped a ton this year and would have kept Washington playing off the ball in key situations.
 
Last edited:

y2h

Well-known member
Only fools think Washington and Liddell are getting drafted by the NBA. I love these kids as Buckeyes, but they aren't ready.
Do you see the garbage that gets drafted every year? To suggest some team wouldn't draft these guys is foolish. The argument isn't if they are ready, it's why would they waste another year in college when they can get paid. Guys come out who arent ready all the time.
 

y2h

Well-known member
The
I'm tired of hearing about Thad Matta. He was a great coach for a long time and a great guy, but he had to go. Having him coach from a stool in practice while the assistants run the show was not any viable short or long term strategy. There's a reason no one has hired him in the past four years, and if you don't understand it by now, you are beyond being helped.

This is Chris Holtmann's program now and he gets to own all of the good and bad that comes with it, including not having his marginally tournament experienced team prepared for a first round game against a low seed. It's his fault and he's been owning it. Overall I thought he did a good job this year given the talent on the roster, but in part that speaks to him needing to recruit better players. Offensively for spacing I don't think he cares much for having a true center, but in the Big Ten that's tough to get away with defensively. There has to be some balance there, and if he'd like to stay off the hot seat in the coming years, that's something he'll have to adjust strategy and recruiting around.
The talent on the roster is a direct reflection on him. No GM to blame.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The

The talent on the roster is a direct reflection on him. No GM to blame.
I'd actually agree with this. I think talent development has been pretty good, but they've been bringing in a few too many lower rated guys that are probably on par with what you'd be happy with getting at Butler or a similar non-Power 5 basketball school. You can get good recruits that will predictably be multi-year players, and this staff needs to do a better job of finding them in the core Big Ten midwestern footprint.

The incoming class is a little bit better between Branham and Johnson who enrolled early. Next year has a couple kids in the top 50-60. That trend needs to stick and there needs to be fewer guys in the 120-160 range going forward, although I'm glad they identified Duane Washington in that range.
 
Last edited:

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Looking back, hopefully there is another In-state class like 2016 soon. Four guys were top-50 in that group. Towns was ranked 125th nationally and he was only the 9th highest rated guy in-state. The last four classes he would have been one of the top-3 recruits in Ohio.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Do you see the garbage that gets drafted every year? To suggest some team wouldn't draft these guys is foolish. The argument isn't if they are ready, it's why would they waste another year in college when they can get paid. Guys come out who arent ready all the time.
Bates-Diop was a 2nd rounder. Duane and E.J are definitely not on the level KBD was when he left OSU. There are only 2 rounds. Will Buford, Jon Diebler and Kaleb Wesson were not draft worthy. You can do the math.

Both could get there. But as a 6'7" power player, E.J. has an uphill road. I love the kid, would have him on my college team every day of the week. But he will need to improve his outside shot to have a chance in the NBA.

As for Duane, he is not good enough in the ball handling/passing department to be a point guard in the NBA, and he isn't big enough to be anything else. He could get there with work.
 
.
Top