2020-2021 OHIO STATE BASKETBALL

Raymo

Well-known member
Well that was a rollercoaster ride today,very lucky to leave with a win.The good,bad and the ugly but was fun to watch anyway.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Third straight win pulls them into a tie for 4th place in the league with Illinois.

Towns was productive. Meechie Johnson gave high quality minutes off the bench. The more integrated those two become in the rotation, the better this team will be as the year goes along.

Have said it before, but this will be a really dangerous team come the postseason if they can get all of their guys healthy.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
OSU seems to have Illinois number, have won 8 out of 10 and I believe 19 of last 25 games. Lack of a true pt. guard will keep this team from making a deep run in the tourney. IMO they are a better team with Walker sidelined.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Tough sequence at the end. Ahrens got hammered on the three after the sideline out of bounds play; no foul, ruled Purdue ball after tipped by 3-4 guys out of bounds. Purdue's kid hits a dagger three at the end in what was basically an isolation play that was really well defended.

They shot it well from outside tonight, but it's not acceptable to jack up 35 threes (2/3rd of FG attempts) in a Big Ten game. That will probably get you beat just about every night.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Holtmann went 15 - 3 in BIG with Matta's recruits in his 1st year as coach, since than OSU is 24 - 25 in league play. I want Holtmann to succeed because I am a big OSU fan however if OSU is 500 or worse again next year it is time to move on and over pay someone else to be head coach.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Going to be a tough hill to get traction over .500 in the Big Ten this year. When all is said and done I'd expect to see a big glut of teams going 9-11 to 11-9 in league play.

Hopefully this year's team gets hot like last year's group did in the second half of the regular season, finishing the regular season winning 9 of 12 in league play. Otherwise, I do think the seat starts to get a little toasty if the results are average and they don't go anywhere in the tournament. Unfortunately for him, I think without COVID there's a good chance they would have been a second weekend team last year.
 
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nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Worth noting, I think it's pretty much guaranteed he's here for at least two more years unless the rest of this year and next year is a total disaster. They still have him under terms for four more years and owe him $12-13 million. When they brought him in, they owed Thad close to $9 million over the last three years.

They have big bucks, but that's a lot to pay guys to no longer do their jobs before getting into paying a third big contract in a relatively short time span. If this ends up being a dud, for both recruiting and financial purposes it will probably end going into the second to last year on his eight year deal.
 
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Orin Swift

Well-known member
Holtmann went 15 - 3 in BIG with Matta's recruits in his 1st year as coach, since than OSU is 24 - 25 in league play. I want Holtmann to succeed because I am a big OSU fan however if OSU is 500 or worse again next year it is time to move on and over pay someone else to be head coach.
He was left with damn near nothing outside his 1st year but he's had plenty of time to get his own guys in. I understand DJ Carton had his issues but the lack of PG recruiting the last few years has been worrisome and clearly hurting the team now. If not for the weird COVID eligibility rules and Meechie having the credits to graduate early, Holtmann was going to rely solely on 2 transfers, 1 being a desperate grad transfer who truly does not belong on an upper-half Big 10 team's roster. Seems the big man recruiting is going the same way.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
At this point when there's a full stable, I would prefer to see Meechie continue to get 10-15 minutes a game and cut into the Walker and Sotos minutes. At least there's long-term upside, and in the present he shoots it really well. Hopefully in the coming weeks he can be molded into at least a credible defender.

From what I've seen seeing some neighboring state major conference teams practice at clinics I'm starting to believe that at least every other year you have to use a scholarship on the tallest or most athletic credible post project you can find and "coach them up" over 3-4 years. I've seen guys on top-25 teams that can't commit a post move to memory in a 1-on-0 drill go on to play some form of professional ball 2-3 years later.

There haven't been any Kosta Koufos or B.J. Mullens 7'0 5 stars in Ohio in a longtime. Every other year they need to be bringing in the biggest dude they can get from Indiana or Wisconsin, or fueling up the jet to find someone in Eastern Europe or West Africa.
 
This talk of Holtmann on the hot seat is overblown. Ohio State was not in a good place when he came in, and he has won a tournament game each year he has had the opportunity. This team will get better when everyone(hopefully) gets healthy, and depending on matchups, could easily get to the second weekend.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Holtmann went 15 - 3 in BIG with Matta's recruits in his 1st year as coach, since than OSU is 24 - 25 in league play. I want Holtmann to succeed because I am a big OSU fan however if OSU is 500 or worse again next year it is time to move on and over pay someone else to be head coach.
LOL. Holtmann has the program in a good place - great trajectory. Zero chance he gets fired, because Gene Smith is smarter than so-called fans. This is the deepest team I can remember at OSU, if we could stay healthy. They play a good brand of basketball; hard-nosed and team oriented. It just so happens that the league is brutally tough.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
LOL. Holtmann has the program in a good place - great trajectory. Zero chance he gets fired, because Gene Smith is smarter than so-called fans. This is the deepest team I can remember at OSU, if we could stay healthy. They play a good brand of basketball; hard-nosed and team oriented. It just so happens that the league is brutally tough.
LOL great trajectory another 500 BIG season yeah that is fantastic. CJ Walker was no big loss, I would rather have MJ at point, take his lumps this year and be ready to be the starting point guard next year.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
This talk of Holtmann on the hot seat is overblown. Ohio State was not in a good place when he came in, and he has won a tournament game each year he has had the opportunity. This team will get better when everyone(hopefully) gets healthy, and depending on matchups, could easily get to the second weekend.
Not a good place, what a laugh, Holtmann inherited KBD and frosh Kaleb Wesson. Matta's last 4 years he was 39 - 33 with 11 of those losses in his last season. How many more years does Holtmann get before he actually wins something ? Make it to the 2nd weekend in the tourney something Matta did on a regular basis, lets hope so.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
CJ Walker was no big loss
Pretty silly comment when the only healthy PG on the team is a kid who should still be in HS and has been with the team for all of 3 weeks.

Not a good place, what a laugh, Holtmann inherited KBD
For 1 year. And in that 1 year with KBD (and Tate) OSU finished 1st in the Big Ten. The year before Matta missed the NCAA and NIT tournaments. Now tell me who the 2 best players were in Holtmanns 2nd year. They must have been studs if OSU was in such a good place with Matta. They weren't, it was Wesson and Jackson who combined for 1 All Big Ten Honorable Mention. The reality, which you seemingly refuse to accept, is there wasn't much talent outside seniors on the roster when Holtmann took over in the summer after nearly every recruit had already signed and enrolled at other schools.

And why are you giving Matta get a pass for not making the 2nd weekend 4 years in a row and missing the tournament entirely his last 2 years? Meanwhile you want to fire Holtmann for going 2-2 in making the tournament? It's not like Holtmann has underachieved in the tournament. They lost by 6 as a 5 seed to a 4 seed in '18 and lost by 15 as an 11 seed to a 3 seed in 2019.
 
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Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Pretty silly comment when the only healthy PG on the team is a kid who should still be in HS and has been with the team for all of 3 weeks.



For 1 year. And in that 1 year with KBD (and Tate) OSU finished 1st in the Big Ten. The year before Matta missed the NCAA and NIT tournaments. Now tell me who the 2 best players were in Holtmanns 2nd year. They must have been studs if OSU was in such a good place with Matta. They weren't, it was Wesson and Jackson who combined for 1 All Big Ten Honorable Mention. The reality, which you seemingly refuse to accept, is there wasn't much talent outside seniors on the roster when Holtmann took over in the summer after nearly every recruit had already signed and enrolled at other schools.

And why are you giving Matta get a pass for not making the 2nd weekend 4 years in a row and missing the tournament entirely his last 2 years? Meanwhile you want to fire Holtmann for going 2-2 in making the tournament? It's not like Holtmann has underachieved in the tournament. They lost by 6 as a 5 seed to a 4 seed in '18 and lost by 15 as an 11 seed to a 3 seed in 2019.
Even though MJ should be in H.S. school, I would rather him at pg than Walker who is not a very good pg.
KBD was injured Matta's last season at OSU. Matta's 2nd last season OSU was 11 - 7 in the BIG why the Bucks were not in the NCAA tourney is beyond me. Matta had a good recruiting class coming in only to see it fall apart except for Ahrens who stuck with OSU plus Micah Potter was on the team only to transfer out.
 
Walker has been dealing with that injury all year, which I think was causing him problems and making him worse than last year. We will see when he comes back healthy. It would definitely help to have him back at the end of games, at the very least.

It was unfortunate that Matta's health hurt his ability, but there is no doubt the program was trending down, and I don't think there was much chance he was going to bring it back.

Holtmann has this program in a good place, and it's laughable to say he is on the hot seat.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Stirred is just one of those perpetual complainers, that thinks basketball should be like football where you have 3rd string talent that is better than most of the Big Ten starters.

Knowledgeable fans appreciate what a solid job Holtmann is doing, and know the program is heading the right direction. This team is far deeper and better prepared than the last several Matta teams. The league is just a lot tougher/deeper now too. Ask Izzo how it's going this year.

We could use a big man though. I like Zed Key but 6'8" isn;t cutting it this year with all the monsters in the Big Ten. And I love EJ Liddell but he is a power forward, not a Center.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Even though MJ should be in H.S. school, I would rather him at pg than Walker who is not a very good pg.
So you think having no backup PG is no big loss? Again, silly comment.

KBD was injured Matta's last season at OSU. Matta's 2nd last season OSU was 11 - 7 in the BIG why the Bucks were not in the NCAA tourney is beyond me. Matta had a good recruiting class coming in only to see it fall apart except for Ahrens who stuck with OSU plus Micah Potter was on the team only to transfer out.
KBD wasn't going to improve that team dramatically. In the 9 games he played that year he was scoring almost 10 ppg and bringing down 5 rpg. Did it hurt the team? Sure, but you don't go from missing the NIT to making the NCAA tournament just because you're missing a 10 and 5 guy. They didn't make the tournament the year before because they finished 7th in the Big 10 and lost to teams like Texas-Arlington, Louisana Tech, Memphis and a UConn team who only made the NCAA tournament because they won the AAC tournament for an automatic bid - they finished 6th in AAC play that year. More importantly, they only had wins over 2 ranked teams - Kentucky #4 at the time and #8 Iowa at the time, but by the time the tournament rolled around Kentucky was ranked #16 and Iowa #25. Not exactly a stellar resume. Thad also completely wiffed on the 2015 recruiting class and by the time Holtmann took over only Lyle was left and he was a headcase. Good recruiting class coming in? He had Wesson and Beverly committed in his final class going into Holtmann's first year. Beverly only left because OSU let him out of his LOI. He was already enrolled at the school. So instead Holtmann flipped Young (#80) and had Jallow to reclassify (#149). You're thinking of the 2018 recruiting class which had Bazley decommit well before Thad left. Goodwin (#100) and Watson (#112) decommitted after Thad left. Goodwin is average and would help the team this year because they are so thin at PG but Watson is averaging a whopping 6 minutes per game this year and a whole 1.2 ppg. Holtmann replaced them with Muhammed (#79), LeDee (#103), and Washington (#167). And don't take this as me absolving Holtmann either. He's in his 4th year now so he's had time to get his guys in. But the reality, which again you refuse to accept, is Thad left the program in not so great shape.

Also, I am curious why you seem to give Matta a pass for not making it past the 1st weekend in 4 consecutive years.
 
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nwwarrior09

Well-known member
No real personal complaints so far with Holtmann, although it's getting to the point where they need to start accomplishing something. Last year after hitting a big skid early in league play, they played very well the last 10-12 games to go from something like 2-6 in league play to 11-9. COVID may have ruined a prime opportunity last year for a good Big Ten tournament showing and a possible Sweet 16 appearance.

Two more years is a reasonable rope before some serious evaluation. Thad was great for a long time, but the program sucked and had some serious talent holes when he exited due to that dud of a recruiting class in 2015 where everyone transferred out within two years. His last four years the program slid one step further down the totem pole each year. The Big Ten is much deeper than it was for much of Matta's tenure, but it's a reasonable expectation IMO to consistently get 1-2 games over .500 in league play and to get to at least the second round pretty much every year. That should pretty much be the baseline of acceptable in the current Big Ten with expectations to make a push for a league regular season or tournament title with a Sweet 16 (or better) every few years. Basketball isn't going to be elite like football every year, but once a coach gets their footing you should be able to expect them to consistently have a top-20 team with some sporadic peaks.

College basketball is moving more towards 3-4 year players being critical for high-end success. Barring stacking 3-4 1st round picks into one class which isn't happening at Ohio State again, cycling your guys in and getting old (and staying old) is important. With all of the stop-gap guys like Towns, Walker, and Sotos that have been brought in Ohio State under Holtmann should be expected to be at that point from here on out with the recruiting mix getting back to being more Ohio and Midwest centric which should ease up the mass transfer problems Thad had in his final years when he was frequently bringing in national recruit types.
 
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Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Stirred is just one of those perpetual complainers, that thinks basketball should be like football where you have 3rd string talent that is better than most of the Big Ten starters.

Knowledgeable fans appreciate what a solid job Holtmann is doing, and know the program is heading the right direction. This team is far deeper and better prepared than the last several Matta teams. The league is just a lot tougher/deeper now too. Ask Izzo how it's going this year.

We could use a big man though. I like Zed Key but 6'8" isn;t cutting it this year with all the monsters in the Big Ten. And I love EJ Liddell but he is a power forward, not a Center.
Yeah your view point and anyone who agrees with it is a knowledgeable bball fan. That is funny. Do I expect OSU to be better than a 500 bball club, yes, esp. since the coach is one of the top paid coaches in the league.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
So you think having no backup PG is no big loss? Again, silly comment.



KBD wasn't going to improve that team dramatically. In the 9 games he played that year he was scoring almost 10 ppg and bringing down 5 rpg. Did it hurt the team? Sure, but you don't go from missing the NIT to making the NCAA tournament just because you're missing a 10 and 5 guy. They didn't make the tournament the year before because they finished 7th in the Big 10 and lost to teams like Texas-Arlington, Louisana Tech, Memphis and a UConn team who only made the NCAA tournament because they won the AAC tournament for an automatic bid - they finished 6th in AAC play that year. More importantly, they only had wins over 2 ranked teams - Kentucky #4 at the time and #8 Iowa at the time, but by the time the tournament rolled around Kentucky was ranked #16 and Iowa #25. Not exactly a stellar resume. Thad also completely wiffed on the 2015 recruiting class and by the time Holtmann took over only Lyle was left and he was a headcase. Good recruiting class coming in? He had Wesson and Beverly committed in his final class going into Holtmann's first year. Beverly only left because OSU let him out of his LOI. He was already enrolled at the school. So instead Holtmann flipped Young (#80) and had Jallow to reclassify (#149). You're thinking of the 2018 recruiting class which had Bazley decommit well before Thad left. Goodwin (#100) and Watson (#112) decommitted after Thad left. Goodwin is average and would help the team this year because they are so thin at PG but Watson is averaging a whopping 6 minutes per game this year and a whole 1.2 ppg. Holtmann replaced them with Muhammed (#79), LeDee (#103), and Washington (#167). And don't take this as me absolving Holtmann either. He's in his 4th year now so he's had time to get his guys in. But the reality, which again you refuse to accept, is Thad left the program in not so great shape.

Also, I am curious why you seem to give Matta a pass for not making it past the 1st weekend in 4 consecutive years.
Your whole post is silly.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Eh, I don't think salary matters a whole lot in the context of the league. After Izzo at the top there are a half dozen coaches that are pretty close in salary and total compensation. Nationally, Holtmann is a borderline top-25 paid coach and there's seven Big Ten programs that have coaches that are paid in the 20th-40th range nationally. Izzo is just inside the top-10. This doesn't count Juwan Howard who IMO is giving Michigan a pretty sweet discount on his first deal there since he earned about $150 million as a pro player and it's his first HC job.

Unless they want to break the bank and spend another $1-1.5 million (30-50% more than Holtmann's deal) to bring in a top 6-7 paid coach say like a Bob Huggins (who I believe 100% would come to Ohio State for a big paycheck and will probably coach for another 7-8 years barring having a heart attack), then winning 50-60% of the time in league play is about what you should expect with how much of the league is credibly putting the resources into playing very competitive basketball.
 
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DB135

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Live Stats:

 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
This is the type of game where you have to have guys like C.J. Walker and Seth Towns in the rotation.

Wisconsin is a great example of the get old, stay old principle. Five of the seven guys they've played are fourth or fifth year players. Average age of their top-5 scorers is over 23 years and they have a pair of 24 year old starters. D'Mitrik Trice should be playing somewhere in Europe.

Pretty good start, but this is going to be a classic physical grind it out football on hardwood Big Ten matchup.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
32-25 at the half. If they can hit 60, this is going to be a great road win. Wins are always tough to come by at the Kohl Center, let alone when the Badgers are in the top-10.
 
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