2019 Pittsburgh Steelers

thavoice

Well-known member
True. But you can’t win on the NFL if your starting QB has no business being in the NFL.
True.
Back in the good ole days it was the steelers who were winning with their backups late in the season.
Fact of the matter is, it isn't college/hs where you can bring out your second-third string at every position.

I wasn't ashamed getting beat by the Ravens, as the steelers were working with a 4th string QB whom if he didn't have neat story and a "cool" nickname the fans woulda ran outta town already.

I knew the Ravens were good, but didn't realize they were record setting good on some aspects. Truly impressive, even though I hate them it is neat to see a team being able to win running the ball!
 

Red14

Well-known member
I don't feel sorry for the Steelers at all this season. They have done this to themselves. And it's not like they are the only team that does this. When you have a franchise QB who's not real warm to backups, you create a huge talent gap from the starter to the backup. All is ok...until the starter gets hurt, then you've got a problem.
The Steelers found out the hard way that Mason Rudolph isn't an NFL QB. They were actually good enough this year that if they even if they had an adequate backup, they would have made the playoffs. Look at the Saints. They lose Drew Brees, Teddy Bridgewater steps in and they don't miss a beat. Now could Bridgewater be a long term solution for a team to go deep into the playoffs? Probably not. But he's played alot of football in the NFL. Rudolph was thrown to the wolves. His playing time has consisted of a couple of years of preseason games against vanilla defenses.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
I don't feel sorry for the Steelers at all this season. They have done this to themselves. And it's not like they are the only team that does this. When you have a franchise QB who's not real warm to backups, you create a huge talent gap from the starter to the backup. All is ok...until the starter gets hurt, then you've got a problem.
The Steelers found out the hard way that Mason Rudolph isn't an NFL QB. They were actually good enough this year that if they even if they had an adequate backup, they would have made the playoffs. Look at the Saints. They lose Drew Brees, Teddy Bridgewater steps in and they don't miss a beat. Now could Bridgewater be a long term solution for a team to go deep into the playoffs? Probably not. But he's played alot of football in the NFL. Rudolph was thrown to the wolves. His playing time has consisted of a couple of years of preseason games against vanilla defenses.
Are you saying Roethlisburger ran off good back up QBs in Pittsburgh?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I don't feel sorry for the Steelers at all this season. They have done this to themselves. And it's not like they are the only team that does this. When you have a franchise QB who's not real warm to backups, you create a huge talent gap from the starter to the backup. All is ok...until the starter gets hurt, then you've got a problem.
The Steelers found out the hard way that Mason Rudolph isn't an NFL QB. They were actually good enough this year that if they even if they had an adequate backup, they would have made the playoffs. Look at the Saints. They lose Drew Brees, Teddy Bridgewater steps in and they don't miss a beat. Now could Bridgewater be a long term solution for a team to go deep into the playoffs? Probably not. But he's played alot of football in the NFL. Rudolph was thrown to the wolves. His playing time has consisted of a couple of years of preseason games against vanilla defenses.
Um. I dont think you can pin this on BR.

Cannot really compare the two.

Teddy Bridgewater was a starter in the NFL for a couple of seasons before his horrific injury. He had that experience.

Rudolph was a third round or something like that pick. Backups don't get many reps in practice across the whole NFL. That is just the way it is.
How often do you see backup QBs in the NFL get much PT in season except where there is an injury?

Rare.

Teddy excelled in NO for a couple of reasons: 1. He has great talent around him and 2. He had nearly 30 NFL starts under his belt (oh, and he was much better coming out of college in the first place).

Ya can call BR a drama queen, a rapist, or whatever, but Rudolf as a trainwreck really had nothing to do with BR
 

Red14

Well-known member
Um. I dont think you can pin this on BR.

Cannot really compare the two.

Teddy Bridgewater was a starter in the NFL for a couple of seasons before his horrific injury. He had that experience.

Rudolph was a third round or something like that pick. Backups don't get many reps in practice across the whole NFL. That is just the way it is.
How often do you see backup QBs in the NFL get much PT in season except where there is an injury?

Rare.

Teddy excelled in NO for a couple of reasons: 1. He has great talent around him and 2. He had nearly 30 NFL starts under his belt (oh, and he was much better coming out of college in the first place).

Ya can call BR a drama queen, a rapist, or whatever, but Rudolf as a trainwreck really had nothing to do with BR
I do know he publically criticized the organization for wasting a 3rd round pick on a QB a few years ago. All I'm saying is if you are Pittsburgh and you have a pretty good team, why leave yourself exposed by not having a competent backup QB?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I do know he publically criticized the organization for wasting a 3rd round pick on a QB a few years ago. All I'm saying is if you are Pittsburgh and you have a pretty good team, why leave yourself exposed by not having a competent backup QB?
A competent backup.

Yes, that is correct. I always am an advocate of a veteran backup like a Batch, Vick, Leftwich etc that they have had in the past for teams whom believe they are in contention.

It gets tougher when the organization feels as if they need to draft the possible heir apparent and drafted Rudolph. It would be tough to do such a thing, keep a vet backup and relegate Rudolph to the practice squad where any team could pick him up.

The comparison you made to Teddy is just way off base though.
 

Red14

Well-known member
A competent backup.

Yes, that is correct. I always am an advocate of a veteran backup like a Batch, Vick, Leftwich etc that they have had in the past for teams whom believe they are in contention.

It gets tougher when the organization feels as if they need to draft the possible heir apparent and drafted Rudolph. It would be tough to do such a thing, keep a vet backup and relegate Rudolph to the practice squad where any team could pick him up.

The comparison you made to Teddy is just way off base though.
Way off base how? Ben wasn't comfortable with drafting a QB of the future, do you think he would be ok with a Teddy type backup? I say no. He was ok with Batch because it was clear he was beyond his career, he could come in and run the ship. Look, this isn't unprecedented. Heck, even last year with Aaron Rodgers and the Packers, he gets hurt, Kizer was the backup, season over. Same deal, Rodgers wasn't going to allow any competition for his spot.
 

Walt

Active member
I do know he publically criticized the organization for wasting a 3rd round pick on a QB a few years ago. All I'm saying is if you are Pittsburgh and you have a pretty good team, why leave yourself exposed by not having a competent backup QB?
First off... he criticized the use of a 3rd round pick on a QB because they are/were in “win now mode” as their window was closing and his point (along with a lot of fans and media) was that they could have used that pick to get a guy to help them win that season...not someone who might help a few years down the line. It was a logical position. They had a lot of holes or needs that should have been priority.

Second, they’ve had some decent back ups during Ben’s tenure - Charlie Batch, Byron Leftwich, Bruce Gradkowski, and Mike Vick were all guys who were former starters.

Third, a “good” back up is a luxury not many NFL teams have. There aren’t even enough “good” QBs to fill all 32 starting spots let alone back ups. A retread (a former starter who flamed out some where else like Batch, Leftwich, Etc) is about as good as most teams can get. A few, very few, get lucky with a young guy (like Garoppolo) but typically they are used as valuable trade bait or leave to try to land a starting gig as soon as their rookie contract is up.

Finally, the goal of every team is to win the Super Bowl. Other than maybe New Orleans, name one current NFL team that would be a Super Bowl contender if their franchise QB went down? Chiefs? Seahawks? Ravens? Patriots? Texans? 49ers? Packers? They’d all be screwed if their #1 was lost for the season. They might do better than the Steelers did this year but none of them would be a legit threat to win the Super Bowl.

Looking back through 50 some Super Bowls... how many teams won playing their backup? The Giants in ‘91 and Eagles in ‘17? And how many teams made the Super Bowl with the back up playing in more than 6 or 7games during the season?

As great as the Pats have been, the one year they missed the playoffs is the year Brady went down early.

Look at the Colts when Manning went down and then a few years later when Luck got hurt.

I agree that if the Steelers would have had a competent back-up (like Fitzmagic) they probably would have won 10+ games and made the playoffs but they’d get knocked out early....but the goal is to win the Super Bowl and most teams would rather invest their cap space on pass rushers, DBs, O-line, etc that can help them win now vs an expensive back-up QB insurance policy.
 

Walt

Active member
Also...keep in mind that the Steelers probably had a false sense of security as Big Ben only missed 1 start due to injury the previous 3 seasons. Given his age they probably should have been more concerned but he had proven himself to be pretty durable.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Also...keep in mind that the Steelers probably had a false sense of security as Big Ben only missed 1 start due to injury the previous 3 seasons. Given his age they probably should have been more concerned but he had proven himself to be pretty durable.
Truths.
As I stated, steelers were in that position where the QB was getting older and thought maybe Rulolph could be a replacement when BR retires. Of course a vet backup is best when you are in win now mode and for a quite awhile the steelers did have a vet backup to fit that bill. It is either have a vet backup with no future plan, or have all three on the roster as you aren't putting a vet on the practice squad and likely not a third round pick.

Just the way things worked out this year, and again, 8 wins with that offense? Best ya could ask for but likely better if they went full Cincy and lost a lot!

Stepson wants Dalton in Pitts.....I see AD going to Oakland and compete with Carr…..
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
A competent backup.

Yes, that is correct. I always am an advocate of a veteran backup like a Batch, Vick, Leftwich etc that they have had in the past for teams whom believe they are in contention.

It gets tougher when the organization feels as if they need to draft the possible heir apparent and drafted Rudolph. It would be tough to do such a thing, keep a vet backup and relegate Rudolph to the practice squad where any team could pick him up.

The comparison you made to Teddy is just way off base though.
Still like that Minkah trade ? That pick might be nice for a QB.....
 

Red14

Well-known member
First off... he criticized the use of a 3rd round pick on a QB because they are/were in “win now mode” as their window was closing and his point (along with a lot of fans and media) was that they could have used that pick to get a guy to help them win that season...not someone who might help a few years down the line. It was a logical position. They had a lot of holes or needs that should have been priority.

Second, they’ve had some decent back ups during Ben’s tenure - Charlie Batch, Byron Leftwich, Bruce Gradkowski, and Mike Vick were all guys who were former starters.

Third, a “good” back up is a luxury not many NFL teams have. There aren’t even enough “good” QBs to fill all 32 starting spots let alone back ups. A retread (a former starter who flamed out some where else like Batch, Leftwich, Etc) is about as good as most teams can get. A few, very few, get lucky with a young guy (like Garoppolo) but typically they are used as valuable trade bait or leave to try to land a starting gig as soon as their rookie contract is up.

Finally, the goal of every team is to win the Super Bowl. Other than maybe New Orleans, name one current NFL team that would be a Super Bowl contender if their franchise QB went down? Chiefs? Seahawks? Ravens? Patriots? Texans? 49ers? Packers? They’d all be screwed if their #1 was lost for the season. They might do better than the Steelers did this year but none of them would be a legit threat to win the Super Bowl.

Looking back through 50 some Super Bowls... how many teams won playing their backup? The Giants in ‘91 and Eagles in ‘17? And how many teams made the Super Bowl with the back up playing in more than 6 or 7games during the season?

As great as the Pats have been, the one year they missed the playoffs is the year Brady went down early.

Look at the Colts when Manning went down and then a few years later when Luck got hurt.

I agree that if the Steelers would have had a competent back-up (like Fitzmagic) they probably would have won 10+ games and made the playoffs but they’d get knocked out early....but the goal is to win the Super Bowl and most teams would rather invest their cap space on pass rushers, DBs, O-line, etc that can help them win now vs an expensive back-up QB insurance policy.
All great points, my original point was Ben didn't want a backup that could push him. Heck Tom Brady is the same way. If NE loses Brady for a season, they are not making the playoffs. It's not new. I just made the point that IF...IF Pittsburgh had a backup like Teddy Bridgewater, they're getting ready to play next week. And that's two years removed from Leveon Bell, and Antonio Brown. Point...Steelers do as good of job as anyone on drafting and developing their team.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Still like that Minkah trade ? That pick might be nice for a QB.....
I don't hate the trade. Steelers defense has been the staple and I am glad it had a resurgence this year but with Dupress possibly gone in FA it could hurt.

BR could still play for a couple of seasons, although I do think the SB window closed when AB and Bell left.

Fact of the matter is, and I know Clllllevellllland and Cincy fans find this concept tough to comprehend, but I trust the Steelers brain trust. I trust they know what they are doing and will have this franchise back up and running with legit shots.
Hell, they have them at .500 with the trainwrekcs the last two season.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
All great points, my original point was Ben didn't want a backup that could push him. Heck Tom Brady is the same way. If NE loses Brady for a season, they are not making the playoffs. It's not new. I just made the point that IF...IF Pittsburgh had a backup like Teddy Bridgewater, they're getting ready to play next week. And that's two years removed from Leveon Bell, and Antonio Brown. Point...Steelers do as good of job as anyone on drafting and developing their team.
Push him? Roethlisberger was never in danger of getting pushed by Randolph. Dumb.
 

Walt

Active member
Still like that Minkah trade ? That pick might be nice for a QB.....
Loved the trade when they made it and love it more now that it’s the 18th overall pick. They weren’t going to get a franchise QB with the 18th pick. They got an elite safety... one of the best in the league and a known quantity/proven player with the 18th pick in the 2020 draft. It’s unlikely they could have drafted a player of Minkah’s ability with that pick, and even then it’s a gamble. Given the Steelers track record of drafting 1st round DBs recently (Burns & Edmunds) the guy they could have/would have picked at 18 probably would have been a bust.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Loved the trade when they made it and love it more now that it’s the 18th overall pick. They weren’t going to get a franchise QB with the 18th pick. They got an elite safety... one of the best in the league and a known quantity/proven player with the 18th pick in the 2020 draft. It’s unlikely they could have drafted a player of Minkah’s ability with that pick, and even then it’s a gamble. Given the Steelers track record of drafting 1st round DBs recently (Burns & Edmunds) the guy they could have/would have picked at 18 probably would have been a bust.

Moving up from 18th is a thing. Or trading into 2020 with it.
 

Walt

Active member
Moving up from 18th is a thing. Or trading into 2020 with it.
Not a sure thing. It takes two to tango and that’s assuming another QB starved team doesn’t out bid you.

Steelers were going to need to draft a safety in 2020 regardless...so they got one of the best safeties in the league with their pick... and unlike Joe College Stud, they KNOW the safety they got can play at this level and play well.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Not a sure thing. It takes two to tango and that’s assuming another QB starved team doesn’t out bid you.

Steelers were going to need to draft a safety in 2020 regardless...so they got one of the best safeties in the league with their pick... and unlike Joe College Stud, they KNOW the safety they got can play at this level and play well.
You’re talking to a browns fan. They think the draft solves everything.
 

Walt

Active member
Sad thing is....

As much as most Steelers fans (myself included) were down on Landry Jones.... if they’d had him this season they probably are sitting 10-6 right now. They were at least competitive in the games he played in. Remember he almost beat the Patriots in 2016.
 

nupanther

Well-known member
Sad thing is....

As much as most Steelers fans (myself included) were down on Landry Jones.... if they’d had him this season they probably are sitting 10-6 right now. They were at least competitive in the games he played in. Remember he almost beat the Patriots in 2016.
But, as someone posted earlier Mason was serviceable until the Cleveland game and the 1st half of Cincy. If he plays the full three games at the end of the season we probably make the postseason. We held the Jets and Bill's in the teens. Baltimore scored 16 points off turnovers and special teams gaffes.
But enough of 19. What is the next direction at QB? Free agency? Cam? Jameis? Andy? Draft in 2021? Develop Mason? Blockbuster trade with Cincy for Joe or Tua?
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
But, as someone posted earlier Mason was serviceable until the Cleveland game and the 1st half of Cincy. If he plays the full three games at the end of the season we probably make the postseason. We held the Jets and Bill's in the teens. Baltimore scored 16 points off turnovers and special teams gaffes.
But enough of 19. What is the next direction at QB? Free agency? Cam? Jameis? Andy? Draft in 2021? Develop Mason? Blockbuster trade with Cincy for Joe or Tua?
I could see it now , Dalton taking Squealers to the Super Bowl.
 
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