Crimsonblooded
Well-known member
As far dividing the three Divisions
1 or 2 Divisions?
- Thread starter One Division
- Start date
iamjacksuglythrowaway
Active member
You have yet to acknowledge multiple coaches from multiple schools who’ve coached in multiple school divisions telling you how naive and incorrect your little assumption that “school size doesn’t matter in individual sport’s”.. Your entire argument is based off incorrect and naive views
One Division
Member
My opinion is not naive or incorrect. It is my opinion.
D3 Dillon Campbell
D3 Max Shore
D3 Gavin Brown
D3 Logan Steiber
D3 Nathan Tomasello
And more
Can beat anyone at a bigger school.
They do not/did not care how small their school is.
They work just as hard, find outside opportunities, travel, have great coaches, lots of support, and are determined to win.
So I am entitled to my opinion and I stand by it.
Let me Repeat:
In My Humble Opinion:
In an Individual Sport and/or Individual Tournament (not team Duals)
The size of your school does not make you better.
It is man vs man on the mat.
The advantage goes to the one who worked the hardest.
if you can’t handle someone’s opinion and you think only you are right, then you shouldn’t be in an open discussion chat room.
I stand by my opinion and many intelligent people agree.
MPhillips
Well-known member
I hear ya. A man's opinion is his. To be fair though, many dumb people probably agree too? Right?
iamjacksuglythrowaway
Active member
I have addressed this on the other thread. It’s about depth and quality of competition.. no one is saying they don’t work hard..
Pretty much all of the “examples” you used were private school kids and/or kids with access to elite clubs from extremely young ages with parents who already knew about the sport. Also.. after those top 1-2 elite kids.. the drop off is immense.. there’s a reason there are literally quadruple (might be more actually) the amount of 3/4 timers in in D2/D3.. than there is in DI.. there’s a reason almost all of the small school 3/4 timers have much higher level of bonus wins at state...
It’s literally like someone I know from Tennessee who was like “we had Jorden Leen”. Umm the prep school athlete, son of a DI coach isn’t really a good example of the depth and overall quality of Tennessee wrestling.
Your response about it, “well those cherry picked generational athletes worked hard and traveled to national competitions too, so that means any kid who just works hard can do fine” either shows ignorance or naïveté.
I’m not sure if this really registers or not but you do realize that if even if one kid “works harder”, but is in a smaller room with less partners and coaches.. than a slightly “less hard working” kid comes from a Mason, Fairfield, Harrison, Western Brown, Lasalle , Elder, Moeller(i.e. bigger schools with large quality coaching staffs and partners).. way more than you’d think.. thekid who technically “worked less hard” wins more often than not.. same thing happens in college. I’ll be the first to say lower division teams work just as hard.. but again, outside 1-2 programs or athletes, they aren’t competing in practice and competition against the same level as a college DI team.. and the data bears that
Thinking that making the bracket a little bigger will give small school kids more exposure outside of a Tessari, Stieber level kid is ignoring data.
Oh and btw..I am giving informed data driven answers backed up by actual experience as an athlete and coach in the divisions in question.. as well as the input of multiple people who have coached in 2 or even 3 of the divisions. As well as a vested interest in doing things that don’t make the sport even more of an expensive club sport like it’s been trending.
I can “handle” your opinion.. you seem to be getting offended I’m not just agreeing with you and giving an honest appraisal of the realities involved
One Division
Member
One of the dumbest things I ever heard on Yappi, or maybe the dumbest in my life, was this quote from Ugly Jack above.
Ugly Jack says "the kid who technically worked less hard wins more often than not"
So all you kids out there, listen to Uncle Ugly Jack. Don't work hard, just transfer to a bigger school, and you will win more often than not.
iamjacksuglythrowaway
Active member
Oh look at you. Ignoring most of it to focus on the thing that made you emotional.
Apparently you find it difficult to understand that wrestling isn’t just about who runs a lot of hills and who does the most pushups.. Hard work is only one of many factors buddy.
I’m saying this as someone who’s success in wrestling and life has 90%+ come from hard work more than any other factor..
The fact that you don’t understand What I’m talking about makes my point for me. Don’t try talking about this being a complex argument if you can’t understand the way competitive sports actually work..
One division are you trying to get you
Cvca d2. Are you trying to get your kid to state???? And that's 5 guy's out of 500 great ones so what's your point. Opportunities equals development and recruitment. Look at us to California in the ncaa.
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???????
Guy that whines about people attacking him for his opinions takes something that another poster says, removes the entire context, and attacks it as the dumbest thing he has ever "heard" on Yappi (I'm assuming you mean read, unless you have a computer program reading you these posts, which would be really weird).
This is priceless. I love it - keep going. You have a ton of support here.
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
Tomasello went to CVCA which is, and was, D2.
iamjacksuglythrowaway
Active member
CVCA was D3 just double checked on baumspage
Boro Fan
Well-known member
Tomasello won it twice in D3 and twice in D2.
veryoldcoach
Active member
He was D3 at least his freshmen year....
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In Tomasello's freshman year he lost to the D2 champ Ryan Taylor at Top Gun if I'm not mistaken. Also that year, Dean Heil and George DiCamillo were the two best in D1 at that weight class.
There are 32 wrestlers to have won four state titles in Ohio --
the following won all four of their titles in D1 - Weinberg, Lang, L. Palmer, Jameson, C. Palmer, Heil (D. Schlatter won 2 of 4, while Carr won 3 of 4)
these wrestlers won all four in D3 or A - Hanson, Opfer, Lester, Jaggers, L. Stieber, Phillips, H. Stieber, Tessari, Danishek, Romero, and D'Emillio (Ramsey won 2 of 4 in A, Tomasello won two in D3, Carr won one in D3)
There are 32 wrestlers to have won four state titles in Ohio --
the following won all four of their titles in D1 - Weinberg, Lang, L. Palmer, Jameson, C. Palmer, Heil (D. Schlatter won 2 of 4, while Carr won 3 of 4)
these wrestlers won all four in D3 or A - Hanson, Opfer, Lester, Jaggers, L. Stieber, Phillips, H. Stieber, Tessari, Danishek, Romero, and D'Emillio (Ramsey won 2 of 4 in A, Tomasello won two in D3, Carr won one in D3)
sidelineman
Active member
64 divisions 64 state champs, 512 state placers. I would of had a chance, well maybe
3 divisions are good
football 7 divisions, 7 team champs with average 60 per team, football has 420 kids that are state champs, we have 42. this isn't Utah this is one of the toughest states to win a state championship
3 divisions are good
football 7 divisions, 7 team champs with average 60 per team, football has 420 kids that are state champs, we have 42. this isn't Utah this is one of the toughest states to win a state championship
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Crimsonblooded
Well-known member
I don’t think so, maybe earlier but they were D2 when Nathan was there
Coach Root
Well-known member
16 placers??? I like 2 divisions and 8 placers. 16 is too many; there needs to be division in the state a school with multiple of the student body size of another has a distinct advantage.
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iamjacksuglythrowaway
Active member
2011 he was the D3 103 champ
“Braden Brown and Bryce Maynard and more. Both can defeat D2 and D1 State placers.”
I definitely don’t understand this point. The State tournament is a completely different animal and really doesn’t even matter who you beat last week. So to say “so and so could beat so and so “ does not mean they could place higher in another division... unless of course one of those kids is your son... then I understand. If you cruise through the State brackets from last week you will find many of what are called “upsets”. Kids placing 2nd at districts and the champ at that district placing lower. Your argument is flawed a bit. In order to beat a kid or the “dream match ups” you speak of ... the first obstacle is getting them to line up in the bracket!
My vote is 3 divisions,
Sectionals are what they are...
more kids won’t make them better... just longer.
Most Districts are very competitive (especially NE).
Making it to State shouldn’t be easy
State should be the “few elite”
Maybe allow a few NE teams In each Division the option to travel south for Districts... that would be fun!
Good day sir! (Willie Wonka)
would this theory Of man v man also play true in college? Should college get rid of the 3 Divisions?
Based on your argument... enrollment, funding resources don’t really make athletes better, faster or stronger right?
What is your real beef?
1. Did you wrestle?
2. Big, med or small school?
3. Did you lose your blood round match senior year?
4. Have you considered just moving to PA, or even CA (1 division). Seems easier for your argument.
Crimsonblooded
Well-known member
Three divisions are fine at this point. Obviously D 1 is better but the top guy from time to time has been in a smaller division. As enrollment numbers go down at some point the division may need to reduce. Participating Schools is one thing but kids actually wrestling at that school is another. Those enrollment numbers are going to be a lot lower in the future with the mRNA vaccine. So one division will probably be in the next 15-18 years.
Joe Daugherty
Well-known member
I think D1 should have the better wrestlers. They have more athletes to choose from.
Am I wrong in how I'm thinking about that?
Am I wrong in how I'm thinking about that?
I agree but also, D1 schools also may have more resources. Not every big school but especially the top end athletically focused schools.I think D1 should have the better wrestlers. They have more athletes to choose from.
Am I wrong in how I'm thinking about that?
maybe the OHSAA should follow the FDA’s lead
Certified Organic Division - no holdbacks, scholarships or move ins... +Vaccine records
Non Organic Division- well... all of that stuff (No vaccines).
???
I really think it’s fine the way it is!
TheStuff142
Active member
Or just accept that the majority of wrestling people like the 3 division system for a state like Ohio...I mean you ran a poll and those that cared enough to vote...voted keep it the same. The hardcore wrestling people in the state (who actually have a say in stuff) are also not going to vote to reduce # of divisions.
Does that mean they probably won’t like my Organic Division idea also?
MPhillips
Well-known member
If you called it, 'Organic, Free Range, Gluten Free' folks would be jumping on board...
iamjacksuglythrowaway
Active member
You mean my grandparents farm
We have one division, OHSAA. They have wrestling broken into three subdivisions.
Take the top four finishers from each division, run a 8 man bracket with two rat tails. 1st and 2nd place state finalists have a first round bye, draw balance of positions from the hat. Luck of the draw.
Call it King of the State.
Take the top four finishers from each division, run a 8 man bracket with two rat tails. 1st and 2nd place state finalists have a first round bye, draw balance of positions from the hat. Luck of the draw.
Call it King of the State.