Ask The Ref?

AllSports12 said:
Breaking the huddle with 12 players is not a foul. ( save that for a bar bet, you'll drink free all night ;) )

When a substitute(s) enters the field, the rule calls for the player(s) substituted for to begin to leave within three seconds.
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This rule was changed to what is quoted approximately 5-10 years ago.
 
AllSports12 said:
Breaking the huddle with 12 players is not a foul. ( save that for a bar bet, you'll drink free all night ;) )
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Our crew had two playoff games. In each a coach absolutely lost his mind when the opponent broke the huddle with twelve players. In the second game the coach wanted a conference and asked to be shown the rule book. I let him vent for a few minutes and then read him the 3 second rule. He was satisfied.
 
With so many playoff games being postponed until tomorrow, what happens with the officials?

for example, a guy I umpire baseball with drove from Akron to Columbus last wknd (2 hours) to work a playoff game, and then drove home bc he had to work at Fed Ex at 4am.

He wouldn’t be able to stay overnight for game moved to tomorrow if that was this wknd (unless he called off work).

do officials have to pay for their own hotel to stay overnight if they traveled for game? Drove home and back in AM? What if they can’t call off work, are there officials on standby? Or would crew work with fewer ppl ?

none of these impact me, just was curious bc I umpired a college game with him on Saturday last wknd (he drove to Columbus, came home and worked 4am at fed ex, then JV FB game at 10am, then college baseball game at 1pm)
 
CoachHoversten said:
With so many playoff games being postponed until tomorrow, what happens with the officials?

for example, a guy I umpire baseball with drove from Akron to Columbus last wknd (2 hours) to work a playoff game, and then drove home bc he had to work at Fed Ex at 4am.

He wouldn’t be able to stay overnight for game moved to tomorrow if that was this wknd (unless he called off work).

do officials have to pay for their own hotel to stay overnight if they traveled for game? Drove home and back in AM? What if they can’t call off work, are there officials on standby? Or would crew work with fewer ppl ?

none of these impact me, just was curious bc I umpired a college game with him on Saturday last wknd (he drove to Columbus, came home and worked 4am at fed ex, then JV FB game at 10am, then college baseball game at 1pm)
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When a game is PPD, the officials, whether it be a regular crew like there is this year to this point or assigned by the OHSAA as in normal tournament years, are given the opportunity to work the resumption of the game. They are on their own for travel. (tournament travel stipends are $1 per mile one way for any travel over 50 miles....... not happening this year, however as they are keeping officials close to home)

If an official cannot work, the OHSAA in normal years would assign a replacement. This year, since they are using regular crews, the crew chief is responsible for getting a replacement, subject to the approval of the regional coordinator.
 
Occasionally, I have to post a reminder that this thread is for serious questions about rules and mechanics. If you want to criticize officials, coaches, or players.......(just deleted a post) make your own thread in the Football forum.

Thanks..... AS12
 
AllSports12 said:
Occasionally, I have to post a reminder that this thread is for serious questions about rules and mechanics. If you want to criticize officials, coaches, or players.......(just deleted a post) make your own thread in the Football forum.

Thanks..... AS12
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Nelsonville vs Fairland?
 
kdogg said:
What is the rule for hurdling.



P.S. Go Bombers !!!
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Hurdling is an attempt by a player to jump (hurdle) with one or both feet or knees foremost over an opponent who is contacting the ground with no part of his body except one or both feet.

Hurdling is a personal foul and carries a 15 yard penalty enforced as a live ball foul.
 
kdogg said:
Also,......what is the rule for jumping into the end zone.


P.S. Go Bombers !!!
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Kind of vague because merely jumping into the EZ is not in and of itself a foul.

If it's done in an attempt to bring attention to one's self or in any other unsporting manner, the action results in an unsportsmanlike conduct foul against the player. (2 UNS fouls carries and automatic ejection) The touchdown or try counts and the offended team can have the penalty enforced either on the subsequent try or kickoff.
 
How do you enforce lineman downfield on an RPO? I was watching a clinic video(out of state but the state uses NFHS rules) and their RPO was zone blocking with a modified seam route where the QB reads the far outside back. The line fired out and was engaging linebackers downfield(some ended up >5 yards downfield) when the QB pulled the ball. The outside linebacker went to the bubble and the QB threw a 10-yard pass to the receiver who was absolutely wide open. Does a play like this rely on it just being too fast developing for the ref to call the linemen downfield? The QB put the ball in the mesh, pulled it and quickly threw it. Reading the rule book I would assume this should be a penalty but the coach was confident enough in the design to post a video of it.
 
BleedPurple13 said:
How do you enforce lineman downfield on an RPO? I was watching a clinic video(out of state but the state uses NFHS rules) and their RPO was zone blocking with a modified seam route where the QB reads the far outside back. The line fired out and was engaging linebackers downfield(some ended up >5 yards downfield) when the QB pulled the ball. The outside linebacker went to the bubble and the QB threw a 10-yard pass to the receiver who was absolutely wide open. Does a play like this rely on it just being too fast developing for the ref to call the linemen downfield? The QB put the ball in the mesh, pulled it and quickly threw it. Reading the rule book I would assume this should be a penalty but the coach was confident enough in the design to post a video of it.
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I think you meant to ask how do we detect ineligibles downfield on a play like this...... (enforcing the penalty is easy)

When the ball is snapped the wing officials and the umpire will read run/pass by the action of the linemen (Wing officials read Guard/Tackle on their respective sides of the ball. That action will trigger run or pass in the minds of the official.

Once the linemen advance past the expanded neutral zone that should trigger "run" in the mind of the officials. When a forward pass then occurs that crosses the neutral zone (untouched in or behind the NZ by B), particularly when the ineligibles are >5 yds downfield, that flag for an ineligible man down field should be an easy one
 
The key to the RPO is that it is a quick decision. The pass needs to be thrown before the lineman are able to get out of the expanded neutral zone. And, correct me if I'm wrong, it's where the linemen are at the time the ball is thrown, not when it is caught.
 
AllSports12 said:
It's where the ineligibles are when the forward pass crosses the neutral zone.
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This is not the exact play I was thinking of but is very close. Unfortunately it is not very clear and I can not find the original video I watched. The left tackle looks like he is 4 yards downfield. What are your thoughts?
 
Along those same lines I have always wondered about a couple of times seeing ineligible down field when the LOS was the three yard line. Doesn't the "down field" end at the goal line?
 
AllSports12 said:
It's where the ineligibles are when the forward pass crosses the neutral zone.
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Just to clarify, according to 7-5-12 it's where the ineligibles are on a legal forward pass play when a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone is in flight. This means it's where they are when the ball is released not when it crosses the neutral zone.
 
SpecialK said:
Just to clarify, according to 7-5-12 it's where the ineligibles are on a legal forward pass play when a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone is in flight. This means it's where they are when the ball is released not when it crosses the neutral zone.
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While that's true, there's no way the U (primary responsibility for ineligibles) is going to know when the ball is released if he's doing his job. In 99% of pass plays it will take less than a half a second for the ball to leave the hand and cross the neutral zone. If a lineman is a step past the expanded neutral zone when a pass is released, then that will certainly fall into the "what if" category of "if in doubt, it's not a foul".

In the play shown, the ineligible is well past the expanded neutral zone (doesn't apply for the LT as he fired out and doesn't engage a B lineman in the neutral zone to start with) when the pass crosses the neutral zone making the foul obvious.
 
BleedPurple13 said:

This is not the exact play I was thinking of but is very close. Unfortunately it is not very clear and I can not find the original video I watched. The left tackle looks like he is 4 yards downfield. What are your thoughts?
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The lineman fires out and does not engage an opponent until well past the neutral zone. He's well past the neutral zone when the ball crosses it.

Foul for ineligible receiver down field.
 
AllSports12 said:
The lineman fires out and does not engage an opponent until well past the neutral zone. He's well past the neutral zone when the ball crosses it.

Foul for ineligible receiver down field.
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As a defensive coach, this is what makes these plays next to impossible to stop. Guys can’t use their keys and in a way rely on the offense to make a mistake.
I can’t imagine how hard the are to call live because they are so fast. They obviously rarely get called because multiple coaches use plays that should be flag as examples of how to run them.
 
USA70PP said:
Along those same lines I have always wondered about a couple of times seeing ineligible down field when the LOS was the three yard line. Doesn't the "down field" end at the goal line?
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The neutral zone can be expanded up to two yards behind the defensive line of scrimmage between the goal lines.

A lineman either in or blocking in the end zone when a legal forward pass crosses the neutral zone will always be a foul under NFHS rules.
 
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AllSports12 said:
The neutral zone can be expanded up to two yards behind the defensive line of scrimmage between the goal lines.

A lineman either in or blocking in the end zone when a legal forward pass crosses the neutral zone will always be a foul under NFHS rules.
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Do you think there will be an effort to enforce these rules more in the future or create a more strict rule now that RPO are becoming more common in HS?
 
Watching a replay of a game this past weekend. Player is ejected for a personal foul penalty. Infraction occurred off-screen.

In the OHSAA regulations:

Any player ejected or disqualified for unsporting conduct or flagrant foul shall be ineligible for all contests for the remainder of that day. In addition, the player shall be ineligible for all contests at all levels in that sport until two regular season/tournament contests (one in football) are played at the same level as the ejection or disqualification.

In the sport of football, a player disqualified for flagrant personal fouls other than fouls in Rule 9, Section 4 Articles 1, 2 and 3-j, shall be ineligible for all contests for the remainder of that day. Such fouls will not carry the automatic one game suspension. The disqualification for these fouls may be extended through the next scheduled game at the same level of the disqualification by the OHSAA Football Administrator or his/her designee. Video of these fouls is required to be sent (preferably via an email) to the OHSAA Football Administrator or his/her designee within 48 hours of the contest. The OHSAA Football Administrator may add a one game suspension upon review.

What is stated in Rule 9, Section 4 Articles 1, 2 and 3-j? When would an ejection in football warrant an additional suspension for a portion of the next game?

If the ejection occurred with 2:00 remaining in the 2nd quarter, and the player is deemed ineligible for the next game, is the player eligible when 2:00 remains in 2Q of the next game?
 
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The “such fouls” sentence is referring to fouls in 9-4 other than the ones shown below. Basically, fighting and contact with a game official are 2-game suspensions (new this year), but any other flagrant personal foul is not an automatic 1-game suspension; however, the OHSAA can impose a suspension if it deems necessary. Please note, disqualifications for unsporting conduct (most likely, two UNS fouls) are not the same as for flagrant personal fouls and are not subject to this policy – disqualification for unsporting conduct still carries an automatic suspension.

A suspension does not include the portion of the game from which the player was disqualified. If you receive a 1-game suspension, you are suspended from the entire game after the one in which you were disqualified.

9-4 ILLEGAL PERSONAL CONTACT

ART. 1 ... No player or nonplayer shall fight.

ART. 2 ... No player or nonplayer shall intentionally contact a game official.

ART. 3 ... No player or nonplayer shall:

j. Strike an opponent with his fist, locked hands, forearm or elbow, nor kick or knee him.
 
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