Ask The Ref?

zebrastripes said:
If the line to gain is the goal line you’re never going to get a first down for an encroachment foul.

The only “automatic first downs” in NFHS are for roughing the passer, roughing the kicker/holder, and roughing the snapper.
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So what is the detriment for the defense to just keep committing encroachment?
 
zebrastripes said:
Rule 9-9, Unfair Acts

ART. 2 ... No team shall repeatedly commit fouls which halve the distance to the goal line.
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Similar question, I thought it had been asked a few years ago, but couldn't find it on here: What happens if the offense is having a long huddle, and gets flagged multiple times for delay of game? Is it allowable until they're backed up to their own 10-yard line?

Had a flashback to a Ritz Brothers college football movie from the 1930's, where the brothers spend a long time in the huddle drawing up a convoluted multiple-handoff/lateral play. They get moved back something like 50 yards or more on multiple DOG violations - and still score the winning touchdown. That always stuck in my mind as a potential strategy, no matter how ludicrous, unless there's a similar provision to prevent this - maybe?
 
AllSports12 said:
Encroachment (there is no off sides in High School Football) is never an automatic first down. It's either 5 yards from the previous dead ball spot or half the distance to the goal line from the previous dead ball spot.

Now, you stated "4th and less than a yard going into score"

Did you mean 4th and goal to go?
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Yes, 4th and goal. Encroachment correct.
 
Zunardo said:
Similar question, I thought it had been asked a few years ago, but couldn't find it on here: What happens if the offense is having a long huddle, and gets flagged multiple times for delay of game? Is it allowable until they're backed up to their own 10-yard line?

Had a flashback to a Ritz Brothers college football movie from the 1930's, where the brothers spend a long time in the huddle drawing up a convoluted multiple-handoff/lateral play. They get moved back something like 50 yards or more on multiple DOG violations - and still score the winning touchdown. That always stuck in my mind as a potential strategy, no matter how ludicrous, unless there's a similar provision to prevent this - maybe?
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I’m not able to look in the casebook right now but the unfair act rule allows the referee to enforce any penalty he feels is equitable. Also, generally the clock starts on the snap after a delay of game foul but Rule 3-4-6 allows the referee to start or stop the clock whenever an unfair advantage could be gained under the normal timing rules. In your situation I’m starting the clock on the snap after two delay of game fouls.
 
coltfan76 said:
So what is the detriment for the defense to just keep committing encroachment?
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As zebratstripes noted, this is a foul. The rule gives the Referee options on how to penalize this act, including the awarding of a score or forfeiture (drastic measure) of the game.

Once it becomes obvious to all what's happening, the Referee will inform the Head Coach that the next time it happens it is an Unsporting Conduct foul that will be charged to him. The second time that happens, he is ejected from the game...... that's the detriment.

If it gets to that point or further....... The Head Coach is going to have some serious consequences to deal with.
 
Zunardo said:
Similar question, I thought it had been asked a few years ago, but couldn't find it on here: What happens if the offense is having a long huddle, and gets flagged multiple times for delay of game? Is it allowable until they're backed up to their own 10-yard line?

Had a flashback to a Ritz Brothers college football movie from the 1930's, where the brothers spend a long time in the huddle drawing up a convoluted multiple-handoff/lateral play. They get moved back something like 50 yards or more on multiple DOG violations - and still score the winning touchdown. That always stuck in my mind as a potential strategy, no matter how ludicrous, unless there's a similar provision to prevent this - maybe?
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While there is not specific case book plays that address this, the provision in the Unfair Acts rule allows for the Referee to penalize for any act that in the opinion of the Referee, tends to make a travesty of the game.

Like the other situation just discussed, this would probably start with.... "coach, next time it's 15 and it's on you".
 
AllSports12 said:
As zebratstripes noted, this is a foul. The rule gives the Referee options on how to penalize this act, including the awarding of a score or forfeiture (drastic measure) of the game.

Once it becomes obvious to all what's happening, the Referee will inform the Head Coach that the next time it happens it is an Unsporting Conduct foul that will be charged to him. The second time that happens, he is ejected from the game...... that's the detriment.

If it gets to that point or further....... The Head Coach is going to have some serious consequences to deal with.
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This is what I was looking for, thanks.
 
If there are offsetting Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties is there any reason to walk off the penalty in each direction?

If you are going to walk them off and it is goal to go, do you walk half the distance and then back to where you were or is it half the distance and then 15 yards?
 
CedarBuck92 said:
If there are offsetting Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties is there any reason to walk off the penalty in each direction?

If you are going to walk them off and it is goal to go, do you walk half the distance and then back to where you were or is it half the distance and then 15 yards?
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Offsetting fouls do not need to be walked off... (offset = cancel each other)

There are times however, when dead ball fouls committed by each team would/could require walking of the fouls as you describe.
 
AllSports12 said:
Need more information on this play.

When the the foul occur? (during the run, during the time when the ball was pitched, or passed (loose ball) etc...
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Shotgun snap, qb rolls out, defensive player grabs facemask 5 yards behind los, qb gets free runs for 5 yards back to los then tackled.
 
eagles73 said:
Shotgun snap, qb rolls out, defensive player grabs facemask 5 yards behind los, qb gets free runs for 5 yards back to los then tackled.
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The foul was committed during a running play so penalty for the foul would be enforced from the end of the run. (where the runner was downed)
 
Second scenario, bubble screen, side judge puts fist back indicating Pass behind los, receiver gets facemask grabbed at point behind los where he caught it. Called five yard incidental, where penalty get marked off?
 
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eagles73 said:
Second scenario, bubble screen, side judge puts fist back indicating Pass behind los, receiver gets facemask grabbed at point behind los where he caught it. Called five yard incidental, where penalty get marked off?
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The wing punching back indicates a backward pass, not a pass behind the LOS.

If the face mask foul occurred after the ball was caught the penalty is from the end of the run.
 
Ericles said:
Does the enforcement spot change if the pass was incomplete or if the foul occurred before the catch?
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Yes

Because that action was part of a loose ball play. Fouls that occur during a loose ball play are enforced from the previous spot. (with a few exceptions.... this isn't one of them)
 
AllSports12 said:
Yes

Because that action was part of a loose ball play. Fouls that occur during a loose ball play are enforced from the previous spot. (with a few exceptions.... this isn't one of them)
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What constitutes a loose ball play?

I have particular interest in enforcement spots because I sometimes fill in doing stats for our team and that sometimes matters for statistical purposes and whether or not a play "counts" or is nullified.

Thanks for the info.
 
Ericles said:
What constitutes a loose ball play?
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It is action during a scrimmage kick where there is no post scrimmage kick foul, a free kick, a legal forward pass, a backward pass (includes the snap), or an illegal kick or fumble by A in or behind the neutral zone before any change of possession.

A loose ball play includes the run or runs Which precede any legal or illegal kick, legal forward pass, fumble or backward pass.

Clear as mud, eh ? ?
 
I know that it is a penalty for a team breaking the huddle with 12 men ... but when is it a penalty for a no huddle team to have 12 men on the field?
 
joesports said:
I know that it is a penalty for a team breaking the huddle with 12 men ... but when is it a penalty for a no huddle team to have 12 men on the field?
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Breaking the huddle with 12 players is not a foul. ( save that for a bar bet, you'll drink free all night ;) )

When a substitute(s) enters the field, the rule calls for the player(s) substituted for to begin to leave within three seconds.
 
bb9 said:
A field goal is a punt essentially.

Regarding hurdling, the player being hurdled pretty much needs to have both feet on the ground for it to be a penalty. The ball carrier can jump over defenders that are already laying on the ground without penalty.

Regarding the clock starting at the referee's discretion, this is a point of emphasis this year and the referee has more flexibility to stop the clock if he feels the team is trying to do it to milk the clock like in your situation above.
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^^^^^^^^^^
Correct on both
 
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