The future of EdChoice

irish_buffalo said:
When it comes to tax dollars yes, there needs to be standards set.

And the ADA and Title IX are not arbitrary and set by some board with a union agenda. You are being just plain silly and of course ringer "liked" it as he has trouble understanding WHY EdChoice is flawed. Hint-hint: It is not because of anyone's "choice."
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Are you blaming failed test scores across the board on the Special needs Students. Then lets see a break down of the General School's Population minus those Students. You want to talk Apples to Apples then Compare SAT, ACT , Graduation Rates, and % of Kids going on to Higher Education. Public versus Private. That will give you the answer .
And when all you have to come back with is well the Publics have to accept every student , then thats what your answer to the question is. Some Parents just want a different environment for their child. You want to limit that Choice .? If so Why ? Because ? Have you ever once sat down with a Parent of a Child and asked them why do you or did you choose to send your child to a Private School.? I do it all the time at Freshman and Reserve Football games or at Fund Raisers. If you haven't you might start with your own parents ......
 
irish_buffalo said:
When it comes to tax dollars yes, there needs to be standards set.

And the ADA and Title IX are not arbitrary and set by some board with a union agenda. You are being just plain silly and of course ringer "liked" it as he has trouble understanding WHY EdChoice is flawed. Hint-hint: It is not because of anyone's "choice."
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So just to be clear. Parents should not get to decide how their own tax dollars should be allocated, for their own child's education?

I think we should do away with Title IX altogether. In the interest of "equality", have open tryouts and let the most qualified athletes make the team, regardless of gender. After all, gender isn't an absolute biological definition anymore, correct? Why discriminate against someone who identifies as a gender they weren't born into, it's just not fair.

The government school system is way more flawed than EdChoice could ever hope to be.
 
TCSoup said:
Are you blaming failed test scores across the board on the Special needs Students. Then lets see a break down of the General School's Population minus those Students. You want to talk Apples to Apples then Compare SAT, ACT , Graduation Rates, and % of Kids going on to Higher Education. Public versus Private. That will give you the answer .
And when all you have to come back with is well the Publics have to accept every student , then thats what your answer to the question is. Some Parents just want a different environment for their child. You want to limit that Choice .? If so Why ? Because ? Have you ever once sat down with a Parent of a Child and asked them why do you or did you choose to send your child to a Private School.? I do it all the time at Freshman and Reserve Football games or at Fund Raisers. If you haven't you might start with your own parents ......
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So, we have spoken at length on here how the public school MUST take everyone. The public school has zero choice in the matter. I know you want to focus on special needs kids but there are plenty of kids in many public districts who simply do not care about school. There are plenty of kids whose parents do not care (if they have parents). Many kids are raised by an aunt or grandparents. Many kids simply do not have the home life to drive education as a priority as Yappi hit on eons ago in this thread. This is why there is a direct correlation between wealth of district and test scores. Not to mention that every immigrant, whether it be Hmong or Somali or Syrian the public school district must accommodate that student on language. Further, many districts are very transient in that many kids come and go throughout the year. The public is forced to attempt to educate these kids and subsequently test them.

The private school does not have these kids. If they do, those students are usually not around for long. When I attended private school I was surrounded by many kids like me across racial divide. A bunch of young men whose parents, through whatever means, were willing to sacrifice in order to send their children to a private institution. I got a great education. However, anytime a problem child arose he was quickly tossed. We did not have kids whose family did not drive education as a priority. Period. It is easy to educate kids whose parents take a vested interest. Try educating the ones whose parents do not. It is easy to coach top tier athletes. Try coaching the kids with two left feet. You are advocating, from a F-ing Christian standpoint, in taking the better children and leaving the less desirable kids behind for the public and THEN accusing the public of failing because that is what they are left with.

Parents have ALWAYS had the choice to send their kids to private school. This is nothing new. However, they could not and should not be able to take their tax dollars to do so. Especially for a religious institution. I pay taxes for local public transportation that I do not use because I choose to pay for my own private vehicle. The state mandates the public takes everyone. Public transportation is a different story.

Regardless, once you begin taking public tax dollars several things should be triggered such as Separation of Church and State, ADA, and Title IX which has exhaustively been explained. As it stands now, with EdChoice anyone can take their kid to a private school that is not measured by the same BS testing, and does not comply with those things I mentioned above. Period. You CANNOT get around that fact. You do not even really know if the school you are using the voucher for is actually better than the school left behind. Maybe at some point this will all sink in with several of you as to how flawed this thing really is. That this is about telling the public's that they are "failing" based on arbitrary BS standards and allowing parents to use their public dollars to attend a school not even held to those same BS standards. I even said it twice in that paragraph for your benefit.
 
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gobluetom said:
So just to be clear. Parents should not get to decide how their own tax dollars should be allocated, for their own child's education?

I think we should do away with Title IX altogether. In the interest of "equality", have open tryouts and let the most qualified athletes make the team, regardless of gender. After all, gender isn't an absolute biological definition anymore, correct? Why discriminate against someone who identifies as a gender they weren't born into, it's just not fair.

The government school system is way more flawed than EdChoice could ever hope to be.
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Is all that Title IX says is if a school has a baseball and softball team that they have close to the same budget and facilities. Not too hard to understand.

I believe the state just ruled that transgender students can no longer compete in female sports. Seems right to me?


Nothing is perfect but the way the state funds public schools has been ruled unconstitutional (4 times). EdChoice is a pure disaster on so many levels that only a biased narrow-minded pinhead :D cannot see how flawed and detrimental the program really is towards public schools.

Sorry Tom, I'm sure you have a regular sized head.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Is all that Title IX says is if a school has a baseball and softball team that they have close to the same budget and facilities. Not too hard to understand.

I believe the state just ruled that transgender students can no longer compete in female sports. Seems right to me?


Nothing is perfect but the way the state funds public schools has been ruled unconstitutional (4 times). EdChoice is a pure disaster on so many levels that only a biased narrow-minded pinhead :D cannot see how flawed and detrimental the program really is towards public schools.

Sorry Tom, I'm sure you have a regular sized head.
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Don't care about government run schools, I care about children and their parent's right to choose what is best for them.

Title IX discriminates against females, because it implies that they are athletically inferior to men.
We all know men and women are equal, so let's have open tryouts(without all of this gender definition nonsense), and let the most qualified individuals make teams.

BTW, if you have to resort to name calling, you've already lost.
 
irish_buffalo said:
So, we have spoken at length on here how the public school MUST take everyone. The public school has zero choice in the matter. I know you want to focus on special needs kids but there are plenty of kids in many public districts who simply do not care about school. There are plenty of kids whose parents do not care (if they have parents). Many kids are raised by an aunt or grandparents. Many kids simply do not have the home life to drive education as a priority as Yappi hit on eons ago in this thread. This is why there is a direct correlation between wealth of district and test scores. Not to mention that every immigrant, whether it be Hmong or Somali or Syrian the public school district must accommodate that student on language. Further, many districts are very transient in that many kids come and go throughout the year. The public is forced to attempt to educate these kids and subsequently test them.

The private school does not have these kids. If they do, those students are usually not around for long. When I attended private school I was surrounded by many kids like me across racial divide. A bunch of young men whose parents, through whatever means, were willing to sacrifice in order to send their children to a private institution. I got a great education. However, anytime a problem child arose he was quickly tossed. We did not have kids whose family did not drive education as a priority. Period. It is easy to educate kids whose parents take a vested interest. Try educating the ones whose parents do not. It is easy to coach top tier athletes. Try coaching the kids with two left feet. You are advocating, from a F-ing Christian standpoint, in taking the better children and leaving the less desirable kids behind for the public and THEN accusing the public of failing because that is what they are left with.

Parents have ALWAYS had the choice to send their kids to private school. This is nothing new. However, they could not and should not be able to take their tax dollars to do so. Especially for a religious institution. I pay taxes for local public transportation that I do not use because I choose to pay for my own private vehicle. The state mandates the public takes everyone. Public transportation is a different story.

Regardless, once you begin taking public tax dollars several things should be triggered such as Separation of Church and State, ADA, and Title IX which has exhaustively been explained. As it stands now, with EdChoice anyone can take their kid to a private school that is not measured by the same BS testing, and does not comply with those things I mentioned above. Period. You CANNOT get around that fact. You do not even really know if the school you are using the voucher for is actually better than the school left behind. Maybe at some point this will all sink in with several of you as to how flawed this thing really is. That this is about telling the public's that they are "failing" based on arbitrary BS standards and allowing parents to use their public dollars to attend a school not even held to those same BS standards. I even said it twice in that paragraph for your benefit.
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We are not saying the Public Schools are failing the State is. we all understand that. Why should they not be able to take their own tax dollars with them. ? Those buses you speak of are part of the Taxes we pay. Its funny the 1st time a School Levy Fails they start strong arming the Private Schools Family. Accusing them of not voting for the Levies. And the very 1st thing they do is stop the Transportation to School . We had it happen to us twice.
You can't get around the fact and you know this the Privates are meeting or exceeding those BS standards and I speak only of the Catholic HS.
Every Feeder School into my HS except 2 Teach English as a 2nd language . So Immigrants of all Nations isn't exclusive to Public Schools my friend. The inner city and immigration affects everyone in Education.
 
cincifbfan said:
So you don't know that for a fact. Got it!?
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I do know for a fact that government schools have been failing children for decades.
No report card can offset what is so visible in society each day.
And I don't care about arbitrary standards, I care about school choice by the only people that matter in the equation, the parents and their child(ren)
 
cincifbfan said:
We don't know that at all. Where is your proof of such "fact?"
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6030
 
gobluetom said:
I do know for a fact that government schools have been failing children for decades.
No report card can offset what is so visible in society each day.
And I don't care about arbitrary standards, I care about school choice by the only people that matter in the equation, the parents and their child(ren)
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There you go again with your use of the word "fact."

You claim to not care about arbitrary standards in one sentence and talk about how public schools are failing by using the same arbitrarily applied standards. You are correct that no report card can offset what is so visible, that well over half of the Catholic schools in Cincy would be closed or consolidated if it wasn't for the arbitrary standards giving them free cash.
 
cincifbfan said:
There you go again with your use of the word "fact."

You claim to not care about arbitrary standards in one sentence and talk about how public schools are failing by using the same arbitrarily applied standards. You are correct that no report card can offset what is so visible, that well over half of the Catholic schools in Cincy would be closed or consolidated if it wasn't for the arbitrary standards giving them free cash.
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Free cash, what in the world are you talking about?

Why are you so opposed to parents deciding what is in their children's best interest? Again that is none of your business.

Do you really think that parents would be leaving government run schools in droves, if their children were receiving a good education?

The attachment gives an accurate assessment of the differences between private and government scores, and you still won't acknowledge the data, LOL
 
gobluetom said:
Free cash, what in the world are you talking about?

Why are you so opposed to parents deciding what is in their children's best interest? Again that is none of your business.

Do you really think that parents would be leaving government run schools in droves, if their children were receiving a good education?

The attachment gives an accurate assessment of the differences between private and government scores, and you still won't acknowledge the data, LOL
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You clearly don't know how to actually analyze data because the attachment is neither accurate or reliable. Data analysis is quite complex and it's pretty simple to pull out some "figures." Pull out the test scores of the voucher students and compare them to the public schools. As I have stated before, you will find a large number of them are worse than their failing public schools.

As I have mentioned numerous times that quite a few don't seem to comprehend, compare apples to apples. All facts you keep pulling out are more arbitrary than the arbitrary standards put on the public schools that privates don't have to follow.
 
ogealbhain said:
That test is administered in public and Catholic schools in every state by the U.S. Department of Education. You understand statistics, right?
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Sure do and as I stated, the statistics you posted are neither accurate nor reliable. Are those terms you understand with regards to educational statistics?
 
cincifbfan said:
Sure do and as I stated, the statistics you posted are neither accurate nor reliable. Are those terms you understand with regards to educational statistics?
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Seems unlikely a well funded national test like this would be inaccurate or unreliable. What is your proof it isn’t?
 
eastside_purple said:
Seems unlikely a well funded national test like this would be inaccurate or unreliable. What is your proof it isn’t?
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The first would be do you even know what the test measures? What does proficiency look like? Who is taking it? I worked in quite a few schools in Ohio, both private and public and don't know of any that take this test. That's the tip of the iceberg.

Just because it's well funded doesn't mean its results are valid or reliable. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the US Dept. Of Education, they have a track record of messing everything up.
 
cincifbfan said:
The first would be do you even know what the test measures? What does proficiency look like? Who is taking it? I worked in quite a few schools in Ohio, both private and public and don't know of any that take this test. That's the tip of the iceberg.

Just because it's well funded doesn't mean its results are valid or reliable. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the US Dept. Of Education, they have a track record of messing everything up.
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So no proof. You just don’t like the results. Got it. lol.
 
cincifbfan said:
It is when it takes money away from my kids' school.
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Your kids can go to school where they want, as can mine or anyone elses.

You are one arrogant SOB, to think you have the right to my tax dollars, to send
someone else's kids to the school of your choice, LOL
 
I mean there is a whole website that details the sample techniques used.....but maybe better to make up stuff and then say public educational entities have a bad track record....lololol.
 
eastside_purple said:
I mean there is a whole website that details the sample techniques used.....but maybe better to make up stuff and then say public educational entities have a bad track record....lololol.
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What did I make up? We are talking about Ohio and I said I don't know of any school locally that uses this test.

I know it's really easy to change the narrative however.

Play by the same rules and you get to have the same money, simple.
 
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