The future of EdChoice

The Dock

Well-known member
The Ohio House has voted 88-7 to eliminate the EdChoice scholarship, the popular publicly-funded voucher that provided students who resided in “failing” school districts the covering of $4,600 their elementary tuition or $6,000 their high school.

If the bill becomes law, not only is the program dead but also the dramatic expansion of the voucher system awarded on the basis of school performance that was set to roughly triple the number of eligible students. The EdChoice program is expected to be supplanted by a new voucher program, the Buckeye Opportunity Scholarship, that would fully fund vouchers to attend private schools of students whose family incomes are at 250% the federal poverty level.

Source:https://www.thisweeknews.com/news/20200205/ohio-house-votes-to-replace-edchoice-school-vouchers-based-on-state-report-cards-with-program-based-only-on-family-income
 

BHSspartans13

Well-known member
I hope the Senate rejects this. The impact would be massive in favor of public schools (who are hypocritical because they don't mind when they "take money" via open enrollment). Catholic schools with lots of middle class families in working class suburbs and even more upper class suburbs/exurbs stand to lose a lot. Thinking of families who may send to parochial schools in places like Parma, Lyndhurst, Plain Township, etc
 

ideliver

Member
I may be wrong....but I think this was a measure that is not intended to pass....but to show the public schools what could be coming.

By making it purely income based (and I agree with this) every school district in the state will be affected. The doors to parochial schools will be opened even more. The lesson of the day for the public schools...be careful what you wish for, you may just get it....

They wanted the most recent changes defeated and EdChoice eliminated. Welp...here you go....and let's hear your argument against allowing poor families be denied a parochial education just because they can't afford it....
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
I may be wrong....but I think this was a measure that is not intended to pass....but to show the public schools what could be coming.

By making it purely income based (and I agree with this) every school district in the state will be affected. The doors to parochial schools will be opened even more. The lesson of the day for the public schools...be careful what you wish for, you may just get it....

They wanted the most recent changes defeated and EdChoice eliminated. Welp...here you go....and let's hear your argument against allowing poor families be denied a parochial education just because they can't afford it....
Because not all poor families can do it. How will they get there?

The part that really gets me is how the private schools can take all of this public money and still discriminate against students with disabilities. If they want the public money, then take all of the public students. You don't get the tax dollars to continue to exclude. Also, no more kicking kids out of school for extreme behavior. Public schools have to keep them so should you if you accept the public funds.

If they set the system up to be equal with public and private for everything, then I am 100% on board. Quit rigging the system to make struggling schools continue to struggle. Schools have been completely handcuffed by the lawmakers to do their job effectively.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
This will get shot down in the Senate. Then what?

EdChoice needs to be eliminated. My public tax dollars are not intended to prop up private schools, many of which IMO would close if not for EdChoice. Many of which, would not have such a dynamite football and basketball team, if not for EdChoice.

Agree with cincifbfan, they can accept public dollars and not have to play by the same rules.

So under EdChoice lets get this straight. The private schools...

Are not held to the same BS grading system that the publics are held which means we really do not know if what they offer is better?
Are not required to abide by public school teaching standards.
Are not required to abide by Title XI and ADA (lawsuits will certainly come from this).
And can pick and choose who comes into the school using the voucher. The public schools must attempt to educate all of God's children (the boogar eaters, the physically disabled, the mentally disabled, those that do not speak English, kids who run slow and cannot jump high, etc...).

This original measure of EdChoice and its subsequent expansion was a measure established to bankrupt public schools. Nothing more. Nothing less.
 

Smalls

Active member
My public tax dollars are not intended to prop up private schools
What are your thoughts on several public school systems rapeing another through open enrollment or your tax dollars being spent to educate students whose families don't live in or contribute to your community?

Stirring the pot here
 
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USA70PP

Well-known member
Sounds like DC to me. "This is the way it should be and you're an idiot". Got you, no two sides to the argument.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
What are your thoughts on several public school systems raping another through open enrollment or your tax dollars being spent to educate students whose families don't live in or contribute to your community?

Stirring the pot here
As I stated before, if the privates play by the same rules as everyone else then I have no issues other than my property taxes being used to leave my district to prop up ANY school. However, that is more a school funding issue and the question of how my tax dollars can be used for an entity outside of my district?

I'm not a fan but if one district out performs the other, under the same rules, then so be it. We all understand competition is great but the rules have to be the same. Period.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
For the record, I was against EdChoice from day one. But I agree, once Huffman got greedy he awoke a sleeping giant. Once schools in districts like Solon and Perrysburg started getting dinged it awoke that bear.
 

Smalls

Active member
As I stated before, if the privates play by the same rules as everyone else then I have no issues other than my property taxes being used to leave my district to prop up ANY school. However, that is more a school funding issue and the question of how my tax dollars can be used for an entity outside of my district?

I'm not a fan but if one district out performs the other, under the same rules, then so be it. We all understand competition is great but the rules have to be the same. Period.
I would argue that open enrollment hurts an individual school district's bottom line more than EdChoice, because more students open enroll than take EdChoice. If a student leaves TPS and goes to Springfield (Open Enrollment) or St. Johns (EdChoice) both have the same impact on Rogers/TPS....lost $$$, test score averages, leadership, community involvement etc.

Reduce EdChoice and you will just see a rise in Open Enrollment where the suburban districts pull the best, brightest, most talented out of TPS and into the burbs.....with the end result being that student's future involvement in the local school and community a lot less likely to happen. A continued slow death by a million paper cuts for the large urban school districts.

Support for the numbers above;


Today, more than 72,000 students across the Buckeye State attend district run schools outside their districts of residence via open enrollment.


The EdChoice Scholarship Program provides up to 60,000 state-funded scholarships to students who attend EdChoice designated public school buildings. The scholarship must be used to attend private schools that meet requirements for program participation.
 

Smalls

Active member
^^^Point being if you are against EdChoice because of the harm it does to a school district you should also be against Open Enrollment.

I would love for it to go back to a time when working families could afford paying for private schools and the public schools all had strong community pride, support and involvement.........but I am afraid that is long gone and never to return.
 

ogealbhain

Active member
^^^Point being if you are against EdChoice because of the harm it does to a school district you should also be against Open Enrollment.

I would love for it to go back to a time when working families could afford paying for private schools and the public schools all had strong community pride, support and involvement.........but I am afraid that is long gone and never to return.
"Backpack" funding is where we should go.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
^^^Point being if you are against EdChoice because of the harm it does to a school district you should also be against Open Enrollment.

I would love for it to go back to a time when working families could afford paying for private schools and the public schools all had strong community pride, support and involvement.........but I am afraid that is long gone and never to return.
I am against both from a financial standpoint. I'm against the premise of EdChoice because of the whole playing by different rules PLUS what you point out.
 

TCSoup

Active member
Because not all poor families can do it. How will they get there?

The part that really gets me is how the private schools can take all of this public money and still discriminate against students with disabilities. If they want the public money, then take all of the public students. You don't get the tax dollars to continue to exclude. Also, no more kicking kids out of school for extreme behavior. Public schools have to keep them so should you if you accept the public funds.

If they set the system up to be equal with public and private for everything, then I am 100% on board. Quit rigging the system to make struggling schools continue to struggle. Schools have been completely handcuffed by the lawmakers to do their job effectively.
But it's okay for Private Schools families to fund the Public Schools.? They aren't taking your money , They are spending theirs where they want.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
But it's okay for Private Schools families to fund the Public Schools.? They aren't taking your money , They are spending theirs where they want.
Yes it is, it is their choice not to attend public schools. Public tax dollars go toward the public, not private companies.

If I get surgery at a private hospital, I can't take the amount of taxes I paid for the public hospital and use it for my private hospital bill. No other public entity works this way, but we think it's ok for education.
 

TCSoup

Active member
Worst argument ever.
But yet 20 years ago the Ohio Supreme Court ruled it Unconstitutional to fund schools with a Property tax and told the Schools to find a new remedy . Yet here we are 23 years later throwing money at failing school districts and using straw man arguments like worst argument ever. So keep fleecing that hard earned money from taxpayers and act like it is the righteous thing to do to keep kids/ families from being able to send their kids where it is best for them to receive a Education.
Educational Slavery is what it ought to be called.
 

TCSoup

Active member
Yes it is, it is their choice not to attend public schools. Public tax dollars go toward the public, not private companies.

If I get surgery at a private hospital, I can't take the amount of taxes I paid for the public hospital and use it for my private hospital bill. No other public entity works this way, but we think it's ok for education.
Dumb analogy
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
But yet 20 years ago the Ohio Supreme Court ruled it Unconstitutional to fund schools with a Property tax and told the Schools to find a new remedy . Yet here we are 23 years later throwing money at failing school districts and using straw man arguments like worst argument ever. So keep fleecing that hard earned money from taxpayers and act like it is the righteous thing to do to keep kids/ families from being able to send their kids where it is best for them to receive a Education.
Educational Slavery is what it ought to be called.
Give the public schools the same leeway as the private schools to get rid of kids and quit handicapping them and public schools will flourish. Quit making laws and regulations designed to do nothing but hurt them.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
First, I think they should fix the report cards to more accurately reflect a "failing" public school. Then they should take the other side of the equation and assign a letter grade to the failing private schools and prevent public money from being spent there. Seems crazy that you hold one side accountable but not the other.

Then we need to get away from blaming the schools altogether as failing the kids and start blaming the parents who aren't doing their job. (**stepping off my soapbox**)
 

Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
I would prefer religious private schools be treated more equally to public schools that accommodate religion classes for their students.
 
Dumb argument when people say “well I don’t have any kids that use public schools” or “my kids graduated years ago”. Guess what, I don’t use the senior center either. I don’t break the laws either so why am I paying for police dept? My house has never burned down either, why am I paying for that? I don’t drive in that side of town ever, why am I paying taxes for those roads or bridges? Guess what, it’s called public utilities for a reason. We chose to live in the community and are all responsible for its upkeep and well being. If you want to send your kids to private school, go ahead but that doesn’t remove your responsibility to the community. You chose to live in it, deal with it!!! Don’t expect my taxes to help you pay for your kid at a private non community school.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
But yet 20 years ago the Ohio Supreme Court ruled it Unconstitutional to fund schools with a Property tax and told the Schools to find a new remedy . Yet here we are 23 years later throwing money at failing school districts and using straw man arguments like worst argument ever. So keep fleecing that hard earned money from taxpayers and act like it is the righteous thing to do to keep kids/ families from being able to send their kids where it is best for them to receive a Education.
Educational Slavery is what it ought to be called.
You are combining a couple issues into one here.

First, we have the ruling that the current method of funding schools is unconstitutional. This needs fixed and I believe everyone agrees.

Second, the fact still remains that EdChoice takes public dollars and gives them to Private schools who do not have to abide to the same standards or BS grading system. It is flawed in a major way.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Then we need to get away from blaming the schools altogether as failing the kids and start blaming the parents who aren't doing their job. (**stepping off my soapbox**)
This is a whole other argument and one I happen to agree with. In NWOhio the top school is Ottawa Hills. One of the worst is Toledo Public. Take the staffs of Ottawa Hills and swap them out with Woodward HS and you would not see a difference in test scores. Yes some teachers are certainly better than others but it all comes down to the kids and their family life. Period.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
I find it amusing how this wasn't an issue until it started impacting the suburban schools, then all of a sudden it becomes a matter of great public interest.
Yes. And in other cases, the advocacy against the EdChoice expansion was driven big time by the political pressures of the school district back home. For instance, Speaker Householder had two districts in his constituency of rural, working-poor SE Ohio that stood to lose lots of students left and right to any of the four private high schools or any of the six private grade schools within the half-hour driving distance. And one of those districts is the same one that was the plaintiff in 1997’s DeRolph v. State, the case better known as the paramount decision rendering Ohio’s school funding practice unconditional. No choice but to full court press the changing of course.
 

ideliver

Member
Yes it is, it is their choice not to attend public schools. Public tax dollars go toward the public, not private companies.

If I get surgery at a private hospital, I can't take the amount of taxes I paid for the public hospital and use it for my private hospital bill. No other public entity works this way, but we think it's ok for education.
What's a public hospital? Are there hospitals you don't get bills from???
 
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