Who will win D4?

Who wins D4?

  • Botkins (25-3)

    Votes: 16 19.8%
  • Richmond Heights (17-4)

    Votes: 43 53.1%
  • Columbus Grove (24-2)

    Votes: 22 27.2%
  • New Boston Glenwood (24-2)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    81

LetsGoBig

Active member
Richmond Hts. I think they are 10+ favorites of every game going in.

I think they beat Botkins by 15-20

I think Columbus Grove beats Glenwood by 8-12

Richmond Hts beats Grove by 10-15 in the finals
 

cknights

Well-known member
Richmond Heights was possibly Crestview's biggest challenge two years ago (albeit our boys lost a conference game). They were the most athletic team we faced, and could run.

However, Columbus Grove has athletes all over the floor. They should have/would have been in State last year, and have been in Regionals/State for three years in a row with alot of experience. They have an excellent group of seniors that play hard. They have navigated the toughest District and Regional in the State of Ohio by a long shot to get here. I'm taking Grove by a small margin in the state championship.
 

wf2112

Active member
Richmond Heights was possibly Crestview's biggest challenge two years ago (albeit our boys lost a conference game). They were the most athletic team we faced, and could run.

However, Columbus Grove has athletes all over the floor. They should have/would have been in State last year, and have been in Regionals/State for three years in a row with alot of experience. They have an excellent group of seniors that play hard. They have navigated the toughest District and Regional in the State of Ohio by a long shot to get here. I'm taking Grove by a small margin in the state championship.
Not going to happen
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Watched a couple of Columbus Grove's district and regional games. I know the district/region is tough, but they looked extremely vulnerable IMO and I didn't think they were any better than Botkins and Cedarville. I don't see anyone beating Richmond Heights and it would be a colossal upset if any of the other teams took them down.
 

cknights

Well-known member
Fair statement. No one ever comes out of this district/regional looking anything but vulnerable. Its brutal. It's NW Ohio...... the best small school basketball and football in the state. year in and year out. Without exception.

That stated, I personally wouldn't go as far as to say Botkins or Cedarville are on the same level. However, that's why we play the game.

I assume Richmond Heights has been considered the favorite for several years in a row. It's theirs to lose.

I've seen Grove making a push at state with these young men for three years in both football and basketball. I would say they are hungry to finally get over the hump.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Fair statement. No one ever comes out of this district/regional looking anything but vulnerable. Its brutal. It's NW Ohio...... the best small school basketball and football in the state. year in and year out. Without exception.

That stated, I personally wouldn't go as far as to say Botkins or Cedarville are on the same level. However, that's why we play the game.
Didn't Botkins beat New Bremen by 11 pts a team Grove def. by 2 pts ? The Trojans also def. Jackson Center twice a team that handed CG one of their 2 losses. Hopefully CG and Botkins face each other in the finals.
 
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LetsGoBig

Active member
ill take the move-in's with a title. none of the other 3 teams are athletic enough.

I would have to agree. Its not d4 basketball. The other teams have mostly homegrown kids (botkins best player is coaches son who moved in when his dad got the job). THey actually both still live in Lima.

Richmond Hts has a kid from Glen Oak, a kid from Elyria, and I am missing one other kid. Those are big time kids moving in to play at a small d4 school. Its not right, its not fair, I hope they get beat even though i know they will win handily.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
I would have to agree. Its not d4 basketball. The other teams have mostly homegrown kids (botkins best player is coaches son who moved in when his dad got the job). THey actually both still live in Lima.

Richmond Hts has a kid from Glen Oak, a kid from Elyria, and I am missing one other kid. Those are big time kids moving in to play at a small d4 school. Its not right, its not fair, I hope they get beat even though i know they will win handily.
Completely agree. But remember, some people on here think that is completely normal and fair. Other team's just have to "work hard" and "get better" to compete with them. Completely idiotic way of thinking and takes away from HS basketball but that's the age we live in. Also here's the transfer list from another thread:

Jaiden Cox-Holloway--6'5" transfer from Euclid (was D-1 All-District HM last year)
Priest Ryan--6'6" transfer from Vincentian Academy (PA)
Amarion Dickerson--6'7" transfer from Rhodes
Lorenzo Nettles--transfer from Glenville
 

Wcsfan

Member
I would have to agree. Its not d4 basketball. The other teams have mostly homegrown kids (botkins best player is coaches son who moved in when his dad got the job). THey actually both still live in Lima.

Richmond Hts has a kid from Glen Oak, a kid from Elyria, and I am missing one other kid. Those are big time kids moving in to play at a small d4 school. Its not right, its not fair, I hope they get beat even though i know they will win handily.
So let me get this straight, it’s alright for a kid to move in a into a school district he doesn’t even live in just because his father is the new coach but not a kid who actually lives in the school district just because he came from a bigger school district? It’s not fair? Life isn’t fair. I’m sure that coach left his past situation for a better one and his son but it’s alright but not for the big city kid just because he happens to be more athletic. Get over this stuff.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
So let me get this straight, it’s alright for a kid to move in a into a school district he doesn’t even live in just because his father is the new coach but not a kid who actually lives in the school district just because he came from a bigger school district? It’s not fair? Life isn’t fair. I’m sure that coach left his past situation for a better one and his son but it’s alright but not for the big city kid just because he happens to be more athletic. Get over this stuff.
Were any of those transfers already living in the Richmond Heights district though? The Botkins kid has been at Botkins since his freshman year plus his father didn't leave a "better situation" he was coming off a state final 4 at Lima Perry as the asst. head coach there. Not moving in all of a sudden before his senior year plus it's his choice to play for his father or not since he lives with him. I love how people just say "get over it" seeing AAU teams coming together at random schools in big cities and those school all of a sudden dominating. If you don't see how that doesn't help HS sports I'm not sure what to tell you. Also nobody said anything about athleticism so not sure why you added that.
 

LetsGoBig

Active member
Botkins 1 transfer vs Richmond Hts 4 transfers.....yep equal playing field.

Botkins kid has been there for 3 years....Richmond Hts got 3 kids this offseason....

There is a right and wrong way to do it....Richmond Hts doesn't build anything....they just shop on the open market.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
Botkins 1 transfer vs Richmond Hts 4 transfers.....yep equal playing field.

Botkins kid has been there for 3 years....Richmond Hts got 3 kids this offseason....

There is a right and wrong way to do it....Richmond Hts doesn't build anything....they just shop on the open market.
Just like Deer Park, Lutheran East, Cornerstone Christian, North College Hill, etc. in the last decade bringing in transfers every year. Heck, even Berlin Hiland was under scrutiny when they won their titles because they had a couple transfers starting for them.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
Richmond Heights has kids move in every year from the greater Cleveland area. it’s just like what Deer Park did in Cincinnati. a bunch of kids from D1 schools “teaming up” at a D4 school is just weak. go play where you came from.

wtf, how can you even compare the Botkins situation? i’m sure almost any kid would move to a school to play where his dad coached. that’s normal.

anyone who knows the Shelby County/MAC area knows that kids don’t just “move in”. they win with home grown talent. there’s no argument to defend Richmond Heights. they’re pretty awful at most other sports, even dropped football for 2 years. these kids were clearly coming just to play basketball.
 

LetsGoBig

Active member
Richmond Heights has kids move in every year from the greater Cleveland area. it’s just like what Deer Park did in Cincinnati. a bunch of kids from D1 schools “teaming up” at a D4 school is just weak. go play where you came from.

wtf, how can you even compare the Botkins situation? i’m sure almost any kid would move to a school to play where his dad coached. that’s normal.

anyone who knows the Shelby County/MAC area knows that kids don’t just “move in”. they win with home grown talent. there’s no argument to defend Richmond Heights. they’re pretty awful at most other sports, even dropped football for 2 years. these kids were clearly coming just to play basketball.

That is a great point. I didn't even think about it. That is why when Marion Local played Cornerstone a couple years ago 95% of the coaches in the Schott were cheering for ML. No one wanted to see Cornerstone win.

Just like no one attended the Deer Park game the year they won it because they didn't want to see Deer Park win.
 

Insane92

Well-known member
That is a great point. I didn't even think about it. That is why when Marion Local played Cornerstone a couple years ago 95% of the coaches in the Schott were cheering for ML. No one wanted to see Cornerstone win.

Just like no one attended the Deer Park game the year they won it because they didn't want to see Deer Park win.
And when Crestview beat Richmond Heights in 2019 too.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Unfortunately, it didn't start with Richmond Heights or Lutheran East. Those two also aren't going to be the last schools to go about hoops this way.

Think it gets overlooked how this transfer-a-rama is specifically a local geography "issue." There is a mass of publics and privates alike in the eastern Greater Cleveland area that either currently, or have a history of, doing recruiting in football and basketball. Many of the publics are inner-ring, lower-middle class districts with plenty of rentals and low barriers to entry (see: Euclid, Garfield, Maple, Brush, Warrensville, Richmond... even Beachwood!) -- AND THEY'RE ALL IN THE SAME GENERAL AREA!! Then you have privates like CCA, Lutheran East and the defunct Bedford Chanel, S. Euclid Regina who clearly nudged kids into enrolling for sports purposes... along with Benedictine, VASJ and Cleveland Central who yield lots of great student-athletes in part because they are superior educational settings compared to what CMSD has to offer, with EdChoice being a primary lifeline. What those three schools do to attract and sustain a student population, invariably, is recruiting... but its the permissible type that OHSAA says schools can do.

So, yeah, when there is a massive chunk of schools in a densely-packed part of Ohio and they all at some point or another have done the exact same things other schools in their neck of the woods are doing, it becomes the wild west with absolutely nothing to break the pattern.
 

Dr. Frasier Crane

Active member
Didn't Botkins beat New Bremen by 11 pts a team Grove def. by 2 pts ? The Trojans also def. Jackson Center twice a team that handed CG one of their 2 losses. Hopefully CG and Botkins face each other in the finals.

Grove lost to Jackson Center without their starting guard and most athletic player who was sitting out with an injury.
 

bbjunky81

New member
Richmond Heights is doing what’s allowed by the OHSAA.. I don’t like it, and I don’t agree with it... but it’s allowed

On the other side of the bracket New Boston will play 6 players in the rotation.... and not one of those 6 played junior high basketball there. So in some regards they’ve taken the same route as Richmond.....

In today’s day and age it might be the way to go.... seems to be working out well for RH and NB
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
Richmond Heights is doing what’s allowed by the OHSAA.. I don’t like it, and I don’t agree with it... but it’s allowed

On the other side of the bracket New Boston will play 6 players in the rotation.... and not one of those 6 played junior high basketball there. So in some regards they’ve taken the same route as Richmond.....

In today’s day and age it might be the way to go.... seems to be working out well for RH and NB
i think it 100% has to do with personnel. you’re starting to see less and less teams have multiple bigs in the rotation. it’s starting to be common for small ball teams to have a 6 man rotation.
 

RollingTrain

Well-known member
Richmond Heights is doing what’s allowed by the OHSAA.. I don’t like it, and I don’t agree with it... but it’s allowed

On the other side of the bracket New Boston will play 6 players in the rotation.... and not one of those 6 played junior high basketball there. So in some regards they’ve taken the same route as Richmond.....

In today’s day and age it might be the way to go.... seems to be working out well for RH and NB

that’s interesting with Glenwood. Where in the world are they kids from down there?

on another note - Glenwood doesn’t have football but has a very,very old Stadium beside their school. Pretty interesting place.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
that’s interesting with Glenwood. Where in the world are they kids from down there?

on another note - Glenwood doesn’t have football but has a very,very old Stadium beside their school. Pretty interesting place.
Glenwood’s CB # is actually higher than their EMIS #.

If you look at the school district map, and if you look at a highway map, they’re within spitting distance of 3-4 districts. http://webapp2.ode.state.oh.us/legislator/pdf/sdist_e.pdf

You referring to the legendary Spartan Stadium?! EDIT: huh... I see that you actually are not! They used to have football, however!
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Glenwood’s CB # is actually higher than their EMIS #.

If you look at the school district map, and if you look at a highway map, they’re within spitting distance of 3-4 districts. http://webapp2.ode.state.oh.us/legislator/pdf/sdist_e.pdf

You referring to the legendary Spartan Stadium?! EDIT: huh... I see that you actually are not! They used to have football, however!
The last year for which I could find NB Glenwood in the football computer rankings was 1976 (not to be confused w/ Canton Glenwood that merged w/ N. Canton Oakwood to form GlenOak in 1975).

IIRC, Glenwood was the school w/ the old gym that had part of a step that was on the court. I remember seeing pics on the other site many years ago.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
The last year for which I could find NB Glenwood in the football computer rankings was 1976 (not to be confused w/ Canton Glenwood that merged w/ N. Canton Oakwood to form GlenOak in 1975).

IIRC, Glenwood was the school w/ the old gym that had part of a step that was on the court. I remember seeing pics on the other site many years ago.
NBStepsm.jpg


There she' be!
 
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