What’s with all the arm issues in MLB?

Irwin20

Well-known member
This isn’t new constant elbow, shoulder, forearm issues have been spiking for at least 15 years. Are teams just way more careful about these injuries then in the 60-70s? Fergie Jenkins, Catfish, Bob Gibson (and many others) would routinely pitch complete games with 30-35 starts. Where minor issues just ignored or is something else going on today?
 
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This isn’t new constant elbow, shoulder, forearm issues have been spiking for at least 15 years. Are teams just way more careful about these injuries then in the 60-70s? Fergie Jenkins, Catfish, Bob Gibson (any many others) would routinely pitch complete games with 30-35 starts. Where minor issues just ignored or is something else going on today?
Bob Feller used to always say they were babying arms too much in this era and that the only way to keep them strong is to use them.
 
Guys are throwing at greater velocity than ever before, and some of these guys throw nastier stuff than ever before.

Naturally, arms are breaking down at a continual higher rate because of that.

(It probably doesn’t help that a lot of guys are throwing breaking pitches as young kids, either.)
 
Guys are throwing at greater velocity than ever before, and some of these guys throw nastier stuff than ever before.

Naturally, arms are breaking down at a continual higher rate because of that.

(It probably doesn’t help that a lot of guys are throwing breaking pitches as young kids, either.)
May be the case. I wonder what Koufax or Gibson would have registered on the radar gun? You can find most anything on line these days…I’ll see what I discover.
 
This isn’t new constant elbow, shoulder, forearm issues have been spiking for at least 15 years. Are teams just way more careful about these injuries then in the 60-70s? Fergie Jenkins, Catfish, Bob Gibson (and many others) would routinely pitch complete games with 30-35 starts. Where minor issues just ignored or is something else going on today?
To start with, there is no more taxing or debilitating movement in all sports than throwing a baseball overhand. Shoulder, elbow, forearm are all put under tremendous strain with every max effort delivery. I remember the old pitcher Rick Sutcliffe's answer to why he took so long between pitches, he said "I was just waiting and hoping all that crap floating around in my elbow would quit throbbing before I made another pitch". The old guys had arm issues, but they didn't have agents and guaranteed contracts. Them girls softball pitchers can throw 125 pitches, and come back the next day and throw 125 more with no problem. That's the difference between underhand and overhand. Koufax has since stated his elbow killed him everytime he pitched, and the doctors were worried they might need to amputate his index finger on his left hand at one point. If those old guys didn't pitch, they didn't eat.
 
May be the case. I wonder what Koufax or Gibson would have registered on the radar gun? You can find most anything on line these days…I’ll see what I discover.
Here’s a few examples from a Goggle search. Radar guns are a fairly recent measurement tool so take this info for what it’s worth although I would think there should to some accurate data on Ryan and Johnson.

Bob Gibson- fastball 87-95 mph, source says he regularly topped 95.

Sandy Koufax- 100 mph

Nolan Ryan- unofficially as high as 108.1 (???)

Bob Feller- 104 mph

Randy Johnson-102 mph
 
To me it's very simple. Before about 1990, most baseball players were paid well, but not way over the top like today. These franchises are invested in their pitchers so much that they try to milk them through their careers to get max value from them. And this starts now from the time kids are in little league. Until guys get to the majors and sometimes even then, they are on pitch counts. To me, pitchers simply are not conditioned enough to throw. Once they get to a point where they really have to throw, they break down. Think about it, we supposedly have the best nutrition, training, stretching programs and we have more pitchers on the DL than ever. Take into account back before big money kicked in, if you didn't pitch, you risked being replaced and never getting a chance to play big league ball (see Wally Pipp). So I'm sure as Sutcliffe said, pitchers probably pitched "hurt" and was able to recover and keep a job.
I always use the example of marathon runners. You don't run a marathon by resting for days before or only running 5 miles. you train for months, running 60-80 miles a week, building up the body to do the race. We train pitchers for 4-5 innings today and that's what we get.
 
There is a certain amount of truth in the opinion that throwing more as a developing young pitcher helps build up the arm strength and ability to throw more once they make it to the MLB and avoid breakdowns. But I think it boils down to mechanics.

If you watch guys like Gibson, Koufax, Seaver and Ryan, they got their velocity, strength and durability via leg drive and lower body power. So it never looked like they were straining their arms or pitching with max effort. Seaver notably would leg drive so far that his right knee (his back/plant leg) would scrape the mound and get dirt/mud on it. They were the exceptions in my youth and most average pitchers at that time could not do what they did, or throw as hard.

Today's pitchers are emphasizing arm torque to get high spin rates and velocity. Literally everybody throws 95+. Every pitch seems like max effort from the pitcher, and you hear their grunts as they throw. Thus shoulders and elbows break down...
 
There is a certain amount of truth in the opinion that throwing more as a developing young pitcher helps build up the arm strength and ability to throw more once they make it to the MLB and avoid breakdowns. But I think it boils down to mechanics.

If you watch guys like Gibson, Koufax, Seaver and Ryan, they got their velocity, strength and durability via leg drive and lower body power. So it never looked like they were straining their arms or pitching with max effort. Seaver notably would leg drive so far that his right knee (his back/plant leg) would scrape the mound and get dirt/mud on it. They were the exceptions in my youth and most average pitchers at that time could not do what they did, or throw as hard.

Today's pitchers are emphasizing arm torque to get high spin rates and velocity. Literally everybody throws 95+. Every pitch seems like max effort from the pitcher, and you hear their grunts as they throw. Thus shoulders and elbows break down...
Athletes are bigger, stronger, so yes, there was going to be an increase in velocity. But I just feel we are way too cautious with kids and throwing these days. Yes, when I grew up there were kids who threw their arms out becuase their coach ran them into the ground and they didn't say anything. But that era also produced Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens....we CAN throw more innings. My issue is this is more about protection for financial gain. Maybe we need to rethink pitching. The Reds brought up kid a month ago named Andrew Abbott. He's had 6 starts, has a 4-1 record with a ERA under 2, goes 5-7 innings per start. He tops out at about 94-95, but he COMMANDS 3 other pitches. Instead of just focusing on velocity with young pitchers, let's teach guys to actually pitch. The Reds have another kid on their team Hunter Greene, #1 overall pick back in 2018, 105 MPH. He's never pitched a full season yet. He's been on innings limits his entire life. Abbott has done more in 6 starts than Greene has in a year and a half.
 
Athletes are bigger, stronger, so yes, there was going to be an increase in velocity. But I just feel we are way too cautious with kids and throwing these days. Yes, when I grew up there were kids who threw their arms out becuase their coach ran them into the ground and they didn't say anything. But that era also produced Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens....we CAN throw more innings. My issue is this is more about protection for financial gain. Maybe we need to rethink pitching. The Reds brought up kid a month ago named Andrew Abbott. He's had 6 starts, has a 4-1 record with a ERA under 2, goes 5-7 innings per start. He tops out at about 94-95, but he COMMANDS 3 other pitches. Instead of just focusing on velocity with young pitchers, let's teach guys to actually pitch. The Reds have another kid on their team Hunter Greene, #1 overall pick back in 2018, 105 MPH. He's never pitched a full season yet. He's been on innings limits his entire life. Abbott has done more in 6 starts than Greene has in a year and a half.
My entire post was about pitching mechanics, and why I (and many others) believe that is the cause of the arm issues.

Your response to me is the same thing you always say: "Stop babying the pitchers". Everyone knows that is your opinion, which is fine. No need to keep saying it. Do you give any credence to the mechanical things that I mentioned?
 
My entire post was about pitching mechanics, and why I (and many others) believe that is the cause of the arm issues.

Your response to me is the same thing you always say: "Stop babying the pitchers". Everyone knows that is your opinion, which is fine. No need to keep saying it. Do you give any credence to the mechanical things that I mentioned?
I would say mechanics are the same today as always. Some have better mechanics than others, but most pitchers these days have good mechanics. Now some relief pitchers get creative with trying to hide the ball and make their pitches seem more deceptive. When you've turned that corner to not being a 5-6-7 inning guy and you're just going in for a few batters, you do anything you can to stay in the league. I would say even a guy like Alexis Diaz's motion isn't great for a starter, but he only throws 10-30 pitches per outing. He's not throwing 100 pitches in a day with those mechanics. As far as mentioning it again, why not? I mean do you think the same 10 people are on here all the time? In fact since the Reds have been winning, I see some new folks on here.
 
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