Week 5: Elder(2-2) vs. Louisville St. Xavier(2-1)

[cincifbfan]

Bc he’s just not good enough. It’s a pretty simple answer. You can do everything right in the weight room, but if you’re 5’6’’ 150 lbs, you’re not playing unless you have some kind of ridiculous 4.3 40 type of speed.

You really have a strange obsession with size.

 

[Omar]

You really have a strange obsession with size.

Those things matter, especially in football. I don’t know what world you’re living in when you think just being a savage in the weight room is enough to be a solid football player.

 

[cincifbfan]

Those things matter, especially in football. I don’t know what world you’re living in when you think just being a savage in the weight room is enough to be a solid football player.

The real world. My best players were always way undersized, not elite speed, but gym rats and extremely well coaches. My guys that got the most post season accolades and performed the best in college were all considerably undersized.

Size isn't that important, it's the other things that matter most. Work ethic being top priority.

 

[Omar]

The real world. My best players were always way undersized, not elite speed, but gym rats and extremely well coaches. My guys that got the most post season accolades and performed the best in college were all considerably undersized.

Size isn't that important, it's the other things that matter most. Work ethic being top priority.

If your players played in college, then they clearly weren’t that undersized for HS. To be an elite player you need size and work ethic.

 

[UCArch]

I’m not even saying they played poorly or railing in their performance in the game. The kids played hard a decent game but they just don’t have the horses their competition has. To me, that’s relatively obvious.

Against the top teams they play, the athleticism and talent difference is glaring.

I can’t see how anyone watching these games could come to any other conclusions.

 

[UCArch]

Well if you're one of the few who feel this way, I'd say you're the one not living in reality world. You seem to just like trolling, you seem to dislike elder and everything they stand for, why be a hater on here? Why not just go support a team who thinks as liberal and dumbfounded as you? Because if most of the guys on here went to elder, like myself, they're not ever going to agree with your philosophies and quite frankly I can't blame them one bit.

That’s my whole point - they disagree with me BECAUSE I’m asking them to look at thinks that aren’t the tried and true Elder way. You all act like at Elder, it HAS to be this way - this is exactly what I’m talking about.

The world view will never change in a landscape that is changing all around them.

 

[Omar]

And despite how much things suck now, I refuse to accept that Elder will fall into some kind of permanent mediocrity they’ll never escape from (like Nebraska). This sucks and next week will probably suck a lot more, but there should always be some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[cincifbfan]

If your players played in college, then they clearly weren’t that undersized for HS. To be an elite player you need size and work ethic.

I didn't say they were D1 players in college . Most of them were D2 or NAIA.

 

[UCArch]

If Elder was playing West, Hi, Boone Co., Withrow, Oak Hills, a GCL North team, and a down Lasalle program like the '90s and 2000s would you be saying this? How would some of those teams do with this schedule?

Elder would be 4-1 or 5-0 heading into GCL play and finishing 8-2 probably on some of those old school schedules.

Give the team a break. They are high school KIDS working and playing very hard. There is room for improvement, but stop criticizing the kids.

I’m not criticizing the kids, the kids play super hard. I’m criticizing the adults.

I have never once criticized the Play of a player, nor will I ever.

my beef is with their Antiquated approach to attracting talent and developing talent.Always has been.

 

[Omar]

I didn't say they were D1 players in college . Most of them were D2 or NAIA.

They still wouldn’t be undersized for HS. Elder has had tons of guys play at TM or MSJ and while they were too small for D1, they weren’t all that small for HS.

 

[St.X fan2]

The one time I saw Moeller sack the X QB, the refs protected him like he was Tom Brady and threw a personal foul on him. It was worst personal foul call I've ever seen in high school football. The Moeller kid got a PF called on him just because he tackled precious X QB too hard.

I was at the game and it was a penalty due to a facemask which is why the QBs helmet came off. It happened right in front of the X sideline so we had the best angle to see it and he was facing our direction. We will agree to disagree on that one.

 

[UCArch]

They’re playing Ohio, KY, and Indiana powerhouses that pull talent from everywhere, and filled with future college players at all levels. Sometimes, they are playing national power houses.

Elder is getting their talent from a small pocket of the westside of Cincinnati, with a handful that MIGHT play at lower levels. This isn’t hard to understand.

You either have to start recruiting more broadly for talent or start developing a deeper bench of contributors. Again, not rocket science.

And again, I don’t think Elder families care about broadening the scope to get more talent to improve the whole of the program - they just want their boy to be able to say they ran out of that tunnel. They feel they’re entitled to that being a westside kid with that “dream”.

It is what it is. Stop saying I’m coming out of left field with this, you know it’s the truth. If you’re good with that, then fine, be good with that. But I think they are selling them selves extremely short.

 

[cincifbfan]

They still wouldn’t be undersized for HS. Elder has had tons of guys play at TM or MSJ and while they were too small for D1, they weren’t all that small for HS.

Your right, my fault. What was I thinking with an all state DE at 6'0 180lb. How silly. He was huge. Or All SW Ohio LB at 5'6" 165. That was just my last year as a DC. Both started in college for 3 years. Neither of them got taller. But you are right, size is paramount and clearly small guys never really succeed in football.

 

[Omar]

Your right, my fault. What was I thinking with an all state DE at 6'0 180lb. How silly. He was huge. Or All SW Ohio LB at 5'6" 165. That was just my last year as a DC. Both started in college for 3 years. Neither of them got taller. But you are right, size is paramount and clearly small guys never really succeed in football.

It’s not that it NEVER happens, but play the odds.

 

[cincifbfan]

It’s not that it NEVER happens, but play the odds.

It happens way more often than you realize FYI.

 

[Mad Dogg]

This is also spot on, yet people say I have a axe to grind. Playing time and roster spots are guaranteed for some, and takes the movement of a mountain for others. There are kids that are christened from the very beginning, and usually those kids get the benefit of the doubt for 4 years. The other kids have to do double work to pass them up, and find it impossible to get their shot.

Again, another reality that is glossed over as “propaganda”.

Name one specific examples of this. Just one.

 

[Omar]

It happens way more often than you realize FYI.

Not in Ohio D1.

 

[UCArch]

Name one specific examples of this. Just one.

There’s zero chance I’m ever going to call out a high school kid here. Zero.

Just stop asking the question. If I feel inclined, I’ll PM you, but I know it won’t matter as you’ll just say I’m way off and you’re the expert on everything Elder.

 

[UCArch]

Simple question - if Elder recruited the whole city like St X does Cincinnati and St Ed’s does Cleveland, and how PC does all of urban Columbus, would Elder be in the same tier? I think we all know the answer to that. Yes.

Now ask yourself - if that’s the case, why wouldn’t they do this? We all know the answer to that too.

I’ll wait for zero responses to the question or 400 excuses about how Elder is “different” and how this won’t work for them. BS.

 

[Mad Dogg]

There’s zero chance I’m ever going to call out a high school kid here. Zero.

Just stop asking the question. If I feel inclined, I’ll PM you, but I know it won’t matter as you’ll just say I’m way off and you’re the expert on everything Elder.

I’ll wait for the PM because I know you have no examples

 

[E82]

Simple question - if Elder recruited the whole city like St X does Cincinnati and St Ed’s does Cleveland, and how PC does all of urban Columbus, would Elder be in the same tier? I think we all know the answer to that. Yes.

Now ask yourself - if that’s the case, why wouldn’t they do this? We all know the answer to that too.

I’ll wait for zero responses to the question or 400 excuses about how Elder is “different” and how this won’t work for them. BS.

How is Elder in a position to recruit from the entire city? You simply cannot compare Elder to St. X and Eds. To try and do so is a waste of time. They are completely different types of schools.

 

[E82]

And one other thing..... The vast majority of boys that attend Elder won't play any sort of sport. Stop trying to remodel Elder just to make it more attractive to a kid that's good at football.

 

[4GX]

I watched some of the X-Moeller game last night. St. Xavier's line is not only big but good. Sometimes you can see a big line not be very good. They are very good. Combine that with a returning QB who throws pretty well and can run and you have good skill options and I don't know how you stop that unless you're St. Ed's or Pick Central.

The one time I saw Moeller sack the X QB, the refs protected him like he was Tom Brady and threw a personal foul on him. It was worst personal foul call I've ever seen in high school football. The Moeller kid got a PF called on him just because he tackled precious X QB too hard.

You thought THAT "was the worst personal foul call {You)'ve ever seen in high school football"? I'm assuming that you were watching the game on-line (on the X website) not in person, at Nippert, like I was... did you bother to run the video back (which you can do on that live stream) and re-look at that tackle? The Moeller kid pulled the X QB's helmet off with the facemask grab that he committed during the tackle-- how could you not see that? I saw the X QB get up, and have to go reclaim his helmet-- maybe the video did not stick with the tackle long enough to see the helmet come off-- and maybe it did not have the angle to show the facemasking that Moeller's defender committed... but, even if it did not, calling that "the worst personal foul call {You)'ve ever seen in high school football" is pretty hyperbolic, don't you think?

 

[UCArch]

How is Elder in a position to recruit from the entire city? You simply cannot compare Elder to St. X and Eds. To try and do so is a waste of time. They are completely different types of schools.

Shocking response.

Amazing how all of these Catholic schools can be diverse and recruit broadly out of sheer choice, yet for Elder, it’s always “different”.

The difference is the attitude and world view of the people. That’s what’s different.

 

[Hammer123]

You thought THAT "was the worst personal foul call {You)'ve ever seen in high school football"? I'm assuming that you were watching the game on-line (on the X website) not in person, at Nippert, like I was... did you bother to run the video back (which you can do on that live stream) and re-look at that tackle? The Moeller kid pulled the X QB's helmet off with the facemask grab that he committed during the tackle-- how could you not see that? I saw the X QB get up, and have to go reclaim his helmet-- maybe the video did not stick with the tackle long enough to see the helmet come off-- and maybe it did not have the angle to show the facemasking that Moeller's defender committed... but, even if it did not, calling that "the worst personal foul call {You)'ve ever seen in high school football" is pretty hyperbolic, don't you think?

The personal foul targeting call on moe was worse than the facemask call

 

[4GX]

The personal foul targeting call on moe was worse than the facemask call

I'd have to re-look at that one-- on first blush, it looked like the Moeller defender took a pretty good crack at the X Tight End, after he was already on the ground-- did you re-watch it, to confirm it wasn't a late/flagrant hit?-- because it seemed like the right call at the time, without the benefit of instant replay.

 

[Omar]

How is Elder in a position to recruit from the entire city? You simply cannot compare Elder to St. X and Eds. To try and do so is a waste of time. They are completely different types of schools.

They can pull kids in from all over Hamilton County and it should be a goal to do so. And Eds is not a difft type of school. This is the s*** that drives me insane. You just accept that Elder isn’t supposed to be as good as those schools, so you’re ok when they come into the Pit and kick their teeth in. No, that’s horses***. Elder shouldn’t be ok with being second fiddle to anyone. It’s ok to have down yrs, but this idea they shouldn’t be as good as Eds or X is garbage.

 

[Hammer123]

I'd have to re-look at that one-- on first blush, it looked like the Moeller defender took a pretty good crack at the X Tight End, after he was already on the ground-- did you re-watch it, to confirm it wasn't a late/flagrant hit?-- because it seemed like the right call at the time, without the benefit of instant replay.

It was not late, the receiver was still on his way down. The ref threw the flag well after the hit, so I’m guessing the x sideline influenced the call a bit.

 

[Omar]

And one other thing..... The vast majority of boys that attend Elder won't play any sort of sport. Stop trying to remodel Elder just to make it more attractive to a kid that's good at football.

I fail to understand how those are conflicting ideals. I would say you need to stop living in the past and get with reality. The feeder system just isn’t that good anymore. They need to attract more talent outside they system. They also need to attract more students period. They did a good job with the last 2 classes and hopefully can continue that momentum.

 

[EHS 2001]

The vast majority of boys that attend Elder won't play any sort of sport.

Kevin Espelage said at the first Dad's Club this year that 49% of Elder students are participate in at least one sport.