Week 3: Elder(2-0) at Springboro(2-0)

Pick Central lost again tonight. Maybe last week didn’t mean too much.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 
Omar said:
Says logic. They looked like they were running the Wing T at times. It wasn’t a blowout and the weather was great, throwing the ball just 15 times is conservative. It worked last week in the 2nd Half bc PC’s Offense was no threat to score, this week it was a hindrance.
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They looked like that in first 2 games with the pulling guards.

As the old saying goes, "3 things can happen when you pass the ball, and 2 are bad."

The best teams pound the rock. So again, Elder will be fine.
 
Omar said:
I’m general, not always, it’s an indication of how good the teams are in comparison.
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In general? You can't just change the definition of words or phrases. Springboro is above average (at this point in thr season), whether you like it or not.

Sorry if you think they aren't. Stats don't lie.
 
cincifbfan said:
They looked like that in first 2 games with the pulling guards.

As the old saying goes, "3 things can happen when you pass the ball, and 2 are bad."

The best teams pound the rock. So again, Elder will be fine.
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No, that’s not how modern football works. You have to pass the ball to win.
 
cincifbfan said:
In general? You can't just change the definition of words or phrases. Springboro is above average (at this point in thr season), whether you like it or not.

Sorry if you think they aren't. Stats don't lie.
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In general because sometimes the final score is misleading.
 
Omar said:
No, that’s not how modern football works. You have to pass the ball to win.
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Not in high school you don't, and not in Ohio.

Nobody is winning state slinging it 50+ times a game.

Teams that run the ball the best win overwhelmingly.

Pound the rock. Period.
 
AEW Champion said:
Pick Central lost again tonight. Maybe last week didn’t mean too much.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
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Wayne was always a tossup for them and they lost by a point. PC isn’t as good as last yr, but they’re still a 7-3 team.
 
cincifbfan said:
Not in high school you don't, and not in Ohio.

Nobody is winning state slinging it 50+ times a game.

Teams that run the ball the best win overwhelmingly.

Pound the rock. Period.
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There’s a wide variance bw 15 and 50 pass attempts per game. The reality is Elder’s OL doesn’t have the size to dominate a game by playing smash mouth football. They need to open up the Offense.
 
cincifbfan said:
No it isn't, THE only thing that matters if you win. You dont get bonus points for margin of victory.

Just win baby.
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You’re trolling now. This isn’t the NFL, there’s a lot more to the story of a game than the final score.
 
Omar said:
There’s a wide variance bw 15 and 50 pass attempts per game. The reality is Elder’s OL doesn’t have the size to dominate a game by playing smash mouth football. They need to open up the Offense.
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So how many times is the right amount since it's all about passing in modern football? I mean 15 is too few and 50 is too many? What is the optimal pass attempts teams should strive for?
 
PURPLE REIGN said:
Springboro has quite a few nice players. The QB is a good athlete, the RB is fast, and the WR Lamb(?) was open all night. Neither Elder corner had a good game. Thankfully Springboro kicker missed a XP and FG or Elder likely loses.

Elder was flat. Fans, students, coaches, and players. Elder came out and scored right away and you could tell everyone thought Elder was going to name the score. Springboro made adjustments and kept Elder off-balance for the remainder of the game. Ramsey kept the offense under-wraps and really didn't let Shoester throw much. Ramsey wanted the offensive line to dominate and they just couldn't. But Ramsey did his offense no favors with the conservative and predictable play calling. Elder is not good enough to have the other team know what is coming and still execute basic runs up the middle. On defense the front seven for Elder played well as did the safety #11.

Either way, a win is a win. Cant complain about 3-0 (and 2-0 on the road). On to St Ed's.
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I know it’s not like waving a wand, but they should consider moving Ginn to OL. I know he practiced there last yr and the DL is already stacked.
 
Omar said:
You’re trolling now. This isn’t the NFL, there’s a lot more to the story of a game than the final score.
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I'm not trolling. If you win by 1 vs 45 makes zero difference. It makes zero difference for big games, zero difference playoff seeding, zero difference in playoffs wins or in state championship game.

It literally does not matter.

Again, stats.
 
cincifbfan said:
So how many times is the right amount since it's all about passing in modern football? I mean 15 is too few and 50 is too many? What is the optimal pass attempts teams should strive for?
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Depends on the game. I would think a well balanced game would be around 20-25 in the course of a normal game.
 
cincifbfan said:
I'm not trolling. If you win by 1 vs 45 makes zero difference. It makes zero difference for big games, zero difference playoff seeding, zero difference in playoffs wins or in state championship game.

It literally does not matter.

Again, stats.
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It matters a lot, it’s a good indicator of how good each team is. You think the gap bw Elder & Springboro is the same as the gap bw Princeton & Lakota East after they won 71-0?
 
Omar said:
Depends on the game. I would think a well balanced game would be around 20-25 in the course of a normal game.
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So the difference between conservative offense and "modern football, which is all about the pass" is 5 pass attempts??

You can't be serious.
 
cincifbfan said:
So the difference between conservative offense and "modern football, which is all about the pass" is 5 pass attempts??

You can't be serious.
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It’s closer to 25. E ran about 50 plays tonight, so a 50/50 balance would be 25 pass attempts.
 
Omar said:
It matters a lot, it’s a good indicator of how good each team is. You think the gap bw Elder & Springboro is the same as the gap bw Princeton & Lakota East after they won 71-0?
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No because Springboro is above average since they were 2-0, and East was 0-2.

But again a W is a W. Did Princeton get bonus points for running it up? Did seeding formula change for post season?
 
Omar said:
This reminds me of the Oak Hills game the week after they beat Independence. They’re just sleepwalking through, trying to win this game and they’re in real trouble now.
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Thought the exact same thing following along and listening to it.
 
cincifbfan said:
No because Springboro is above average since they were 2-0, and East was 0-2.

But again a W is a W. Did Princeton get bonus points for running it up? Did seeding formula change for post season?
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So were Oak Hills and Springboro equally good teams since they both came into tonight 2-0?
 
Omar said:
Depends on the game. I would think a well balanced game would be around 20-25 in the course of a normal game.
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So I took a look at last year's state championship games where the teams that ran the ball better won state. It was 6 of 7 divisions, and I will list those stats below.

D-1 St. Ed's rushed 46 times for 270 yards with an average of 5.9 per rush and 2 rushing TDs. Ed's was 8 of 12 passing for 86 yards and 1 TD. Springfield rushed 20 times for -30 yards and 1 rushing TD. Springfield went 29 of 44 passing for 349 yards and 1 TD. Ed's won 23-13

D-2 Winton Woods rushed 42 times for for 288 yards with an average of 6.9 per rush and 3 rushing TDs. WW was 4 of 6 passing for 33 yards and 0 TD. Hoban rushed 35 times for 127 yards with an average of 3.6 per rush and 0 rushing TDs. Hoban was 7 of 18 passing for 65 yards and 0 TDs.

D-3 Chardon rushed 44 times for 192 yards with an average 4.4 per rush and 2 rushing TDs. Chardon was 2 of 5 passing for 41 yards and 1 TD. Badin rushed 34 times for 81 yards with and average of 2.4 per rush and 2 TDs. Badin was 7 of 17 passing for 62 yards and 0TD.

D-4 Clinton Massie rushed 52 times for 345 yards with an average of 6.6 per rush and 4 rushing TDs. Massie was 1 of 3 passing for 1 yard and 0 TD. Ursuline rushed 35 times for 185 yards with an average of 5.3 per rush and 2 rushing TDs. Ursuline was 15 of 28 for 185 yards passing and 2 passing TDs.

D-6 Carey rushed the ball 64 times for 243 yards with an average of 3.8 per rush and 3 rushing TDs. Carey was 3 of 5 passing for 79 yards and 0 TDs. Coldwater rushed 14 times for 39 yards with an average of 2.8 per rush and 0 rushing TDs. Coldwater was 13 of 32 passing for 205 yards and 1 TD.

D-7 Marion rushed 38 times for 150 yards with an average of 3.9 per rush and 3 rushing TDs. Marion was 13 of 18 passing for 252 yards and 3 passing TDs. Newark Catholic rushed 19 times for 45 yards with an average of 2.4 per rush and 0 rushing TDs. Newark Catholic was 12 of 26 passing for 103 yards and 1 passing TD.


****Note**** the D-5 champs, Versailles had fewer rushing yards and a lower rushing average than Kirtland; however, Versailles did have 51 rushing attempts to Kirtland's 30.

So, again, passing is not as important as most fans think in modern high school football. It may not be sexy to be a ground and pound team that dominates time of possession...... but that is the formula to win a state championship. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves and everyone around them. A 50/50 balance is nowhere close to ideal in high school football. You want to run the ball, run the ball, and run the ball some more.

So say it with me........ POUND THE ROCK!!!!!!
 
cincifbfan said:
So I took a look at last year's state championship games where the teams that ran the ball better won state. It was 6 of 7 divisions, and I will list those stats below.

D-1 St. Ed's rushed 46 times for 270 yards with an average of 5.9 per rush and 2 rushing TDs. Ed's was 8 of 12 passing for 86 yards and 1 TD. Springfield rushed 20 times for -30 yards and 1 rushing TD. Springfield went 29 of 44 passing for 349 yards and 1 TD. Ed's won 23-13

D-2 Winton Woods rushed 42 times for for 288 yards with an average of 6.9 per rush and 3 rushing TDs. WW was 4 of 6 passing for 33 yards and 0 TD. Hoban rushed 35 times for 127 yards with an average of 3.6 per rush and 0 rushing TDs. Hoban was 7 of 18 passing for 65 yards and 0 TDs.

D-3 Chardon rushed 44 times for 192 yards with an average 4.4 per rush and 2 rushing TDs. Chardon was 2 of 5 passing for 41 yards and 1 TD. Badin rushed 34 times for 81 yards with and average of 2.4 per rush and 2 TDs. Badin was 7 of 17 passing for 62 yards and 0TD.

D-4 Clinton Massie rushed 52 times for 345 yards with an average of 6.6 per rush and 4 rushing TDs. Massie was 1 of 3 passing for 1 yard and 0 TD. Ursuline rushed 35 times for 185 yards with an average of 5.3 per rush and 2 rushing TDs. Ursuline was 15 of 28 for 185 yards passing and 2 passing TDs.

D-6 Carey rushed the ball 64 times for 243 yards with an average of 3.8 per rush and 3 rushing TDs. Carey was 3 of 5 passing for 79 yards and 0 TDs. Coldwater rushed 14 times for 39 yards with an average of 2.8 per rush and 0 rushing TDs. Coldwater was 13 of 32 passing for 205 yards and 1 TD.

D-7 Marion rushed 38 times for 150 yards with an average of 3.9 per rush and 3 rushing TDs. Marion was 13 of 18 passing for 252 yards and 3 passing TDs. Newark Catholic rushed 19 times for 45 yards with an average of 2.4 per rush and 0 rushing TDs. Newark Catholic was 12 of 26 passing for 103 yards and 1 passing TD.


****Note**** the D-5 champs, Versailles had fewer rushing yards and a lower rushing average than Kirtland; however, Versailles did have 51 rushing attempts to Kirtland's 30.

So, again, passing is not as important as most fans think in modern high school football. It may not be sexy to be a ground and pound team that dominates time of possession...... but that is the formula to win a state championship. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves and everyone around them. A 50/50 balance is nowhere close to ideal in high school football. You want to run the ball, run the ball, and run the ball some more.

So say it with me........ POUND THE ROCK!!!!!!
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You’re limiting the sample size to one game. What were the Pass/Run ratios throughout the season? Particularly for Eds.
 
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