Week 2: (1-0) D6 Coldwater @ (0-1) D1 Cincinnati Oak Hills

Who Wins?


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    73
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StateChampion2012

Well-known member
Well here's your odd ball matchup. Coldwater is coming off of a 44-14 thrashing of the Kenton Wildcats and Oak Hills is coming off of a 28-14 loss to Cincinnati Turpin. I know absolutely nothing about what Oak Hills has. This is a 1 year contract. Could someone give me some details about the Highlanders?


Coldwater 49
Oak Hills 7
 
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NDGRAD09

New member
Coldwater- 56
Oak Hills- 3

Oak Hills is terrible for the 30th year in a row, could very well go 0-10… Coldwater fans , enjoy the bye week and get ready for conference play, enjoy your vacation to the westside
 

EHS 2001

Moderator
Exactly. Just mentioning that such a large school, it was the largest in the city at one time many still is, will likely lose to a much smaller school. I was dissin’ Oak Hills..get it?
For most of the 90s and 00s, Oak Hills was one of the largest schools (top 5) in the state. It’s still probably around 10-15, but I think they’ve had more 0-10 seasons in the past decade than seasons over .500.

Hopefully for Coldwater having an 0-10 opponent won't hurt them too much when it comes time to seed for the playoffs.
 
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nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Probably a good argument to be had that seeding wise Coldwater would have been better off having a bye week than picking up this game.
 

firehawk

Well-known member
For most of the 90s and 00s, Oak Hills was one of the largest schools (top 5) in the state. It’s still probably around 10-15, but I think they’ve had more 0-10 seasons in the past decade than seasons over .500.

Hopefully for Coldwater having an 0-10 opponent won't hurt them too much when it comes time to seed for the playoffs.
I don’t think they’ll go 0-10. Now 1-9 possibly yes. You forget Middletown is in the GMC and they’re god awful. In fact Oak Hills beat them last year to snap their losing streak. Middletown has won 5 games in the last 5 years. Even the Scots/Highlanders aren’t that bad.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
I don’t think they’ll go 0-10. Now 1-9 possibly yes. You forget Middletown is in the GMC and they’re god awful. In fact Oak Hills beat them last year to snap their losing streak. Middletown has won 5 games in the last 5 years. Even the Scots/Highlanders aren’t that bad.
You are right, the Highlanders have 5 wins in the past 4 years lol
 
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nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Never know on that one. They will get at least 6.0 for the game?
I believe it's 6.5 now since the addition of the 7th division. With a 10 game schedule and full divisor, that amounts to a 0.65 in their final average if Oak Hills goes 0-10. If Oak Hills beats Middletown, it would be 1.30 for their final average.

In 2019, the 8th place team in Coldwater's region had a final computer average of 18.85.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Probably a good argument to be had that seeding wise Coldwater would have been better off having a bye week than picking up this game.
Presumably Coldwater's team members like to play the game-- and would rather have a game than not-- the rest of the discussion (about points and seeding) is fairly pointless-- Coldwater is going to make the playoffs, regardless-- pretty much every team with a .500 record or better will now-- and seeding is NOT going to stop Coldwater from finding its level (pun intended) in the playoffs-- so this is one of those "inside baseball" (or football) type comments that has no bearing on what happens to Coldwater's team this year-- and neglects to recognize that the kids play the game for enjoyment-- NOT for "seeding" in the playoffs-- and this game will be a novel experience for all concerned, as these are totally non-traditional opponents from dramatically different divisions and geographies in the state, that rarely ever (or NEVER) meet.

Would it have been better if Coldwater had come down for a game against Wyoming (who instead played Oak Hills' neighbor, Division II Harrison, in a close game, this week)-- or across to play Kirtland-- yes-- but somehow, the coaches don't make those interesting and "sensible" cross-regional games against non-traditional rivals happen very often in the early regular season, in these smaller divisions, the way the Division I teams have started to do (with Ignatius playing Springfield, Mentor playing McKinley, and Massillon playing Pickerington Central)-- but maybe, with playoff attainment really no longer an issue, we can start to get some decent optional games played in the early regular season between traditional top teams from different parts of the state, down in the small school divisions, too.
 
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USA70PP

Well-known member
Reading through this thread it reminded me of 15 years ago when I drove to Columbus from Marion to watch D6 DSJ defeat D1 Worthington Kilbourne
 
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NDGRAD09

New member
I don’t know a whole lot about coldwater other than they obviously win in division 5 or 6 , but how many kids are on the team ? Is everyone mostly playing both ways ? Not that it will matter this game but I am just curious.
 

Cavman96

Active member
Presumably Coldwater's team members like to play the game-- and would rather have a game than not-- the rest of the discussion (about points and seeding) is fairly pointless-- Coldwater is going to make the playoffs, regardless-- pretty much every team with a .500 record or better will now-- and seeding is NOT going to stop Coldwater from finding its level (pun intended) in the playoffs-- so this is one of those "inside baseball" (or football) type comments that has no bearing on what happens to Coldwater's team this year-- and neglects to recognize that the kids play the game for enjoyment-- NOT for "seeding" in the playoffs-- and this game will be a novel experience for all concerned, as these are totally non-traditional opponents from dramatically different divisions and geographies in the state, that rarely ever (or NEVER) meet.

Would it have been better if Coldwater had come down for a game against Wyoming (who instead played Oak Hills' neighbor, Division II Harrison, in a close game, this week)-- or across to play Kirtland-- yes-- but somehow, the coaches don't make those interesting and "sensible" cross-regional games against non-traditional rivals happen very often in the early regular season, in these smaller divisions, the way the Division I teams have started to do (with Ignatius playing Springfield, Mentor playing McKinley, and Massillon playing Pickerington Central)-- but maybe, with playoff attainment really no longer an issue, we can start to get some decent optional games played in the early regular season between traditional top teams from different parts of the state, down in the small school divisions, too.
I can't speak for our AD at Coldwater, but sometimes I would think that things that make the most sense can be more easier said than done at times. I am not aware of ANY MAC school that does not have difficulty scheduling for this second week. I'm wondering if this might change in the near future if the MAC decides to go back to a full league schedule now that the playoffs have expanded.
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
They can't find anyone willing to play and get the crap beat outta them. Just ask Mt. Healthy about Coldwater. Coldwater whipped up on them too. I believe this Cincinnati team got pasted by Versailles a few years back.
These small schools are not your typical d5-6-7 schools. I'd put Marion Local, Versailles, Coldwater, Minster, etc up against any team in the state and it would be a good game. I've watched all divisions and I've not seen much difference between a MAC school and some D1's.
Yes, there are some teams that would win 9 out of 10 times, but they are elite.
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
I can't speak for our AD at Coldwater, but sometimes I would think that things that make the most sense can be more easier said than done at times. I am not aware of ANY MAC school that does not have difficulty scheduling for this second week. I'm wondering if this might change in the near future if the MAC decides to go back to a full league schedule now that the playoffs have expanded.
I hope not. I still like that second OOC game to try and schedule up if possible or at least finding a diff style..
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I don’t know a whole lot about coldwater other than they obviously win in division 5 or 6 , but how many kids are on the team ? Is everyone mostly playing both ways ? Not that it will matter this game but I am just curious.
CW will dress around 80 kids, approximately 40% of the boys in the HS
 

ex_dc_atc

Well-known member
I expect CW to win this game rather handily. I know it doesn’t matter, but it still amazes me that a school and town the size of Coldwater is this competitive against a school the size of Oak Hills.
 

4GX

Well-known member
They can't find anyone willing to play and get the crap beat outta them. Just ask Mt. Healthy about Coldwater. Coldwater whipped up on them too. I believe this Cincinnati team got pasted by Versailles a few years back.
These small schools are not your typical d5-6-7 schools. I'd put Marion Local, Versailles, Coldwater, Minster, etc up against any team in the state and it would be a good game. I've watched all divisions and I've not seen much difference between a MAC school and some D1's.
Yes, there are some teams that would win 9 out of 10 times, but they are elite.
All the more reason a game against a Kirkland-type team makes sense here-- Kirtland probably has the same problem.

Despite your claims that "it would be a good game", there is a reason that when the very good small schools step up to play a Division I or II school, like Ironton (vs. Sycamore last year) and Coldwater (vs. Oak Hills this year), they do NOT do it against the best teams in the top Divisions-- you don't (and probably won't ever) see Coldwater stepping up to play Pickerington Central, or Mentor, or Elder or X, or Ig, or Ed-- despite many of those teams ALSO having a tough time filling their schedules-- all throughout the season-- not just in Week 2. Coldwater (if they truly have 80 players "dressed") will have as many or MORE players on the field as/than nearly all of those schools (except X)-- and more than DOUBLE what Division II Massillon Washington brought to X for a scrimmage last week.

As for Oak Hills being "pasted by Versailles a few years back"-- don't clap anybody on the back about that-- Oak Hills gets "pasted" by just about EVERYBODY they play-- Oak Hills would probably get pasted by St. Rita's School for the Deaf, if they still had a school (and a team). Oak Hills struggles to win one game a year, against the other worst team in their league-- despite being one of the 5 or 10 largest schools in enrollment in the state (once #1), and having a student body drawn from middle class suburbs with plenty of economic advantages-- it is one of the great mysteries of Cincinnati HS sports why Oak Hills is relatively poor in most sports; and it wasn't always thus: Oak Hills USED to be very good in wrestling, pretty good in baseball and basketball, and competitive in football-- but the district and the school have pretty much gone down the drain in athletics over the last 10-20 years... maybe now that Colerain is no longer going to be a dominant power in football, a few of the kids who are decent football players, around the edges of the Oak Hills district, who used to "somehow" find their way to playing for Colerain will now stay at home and play for Oak Hills-- but I'm not holding my breath.
 

KingKong24

Well-known member
I would assume Oak Hills loses good football players to La Salle, Elder, and X with them being close by. If they also had players in the district going to Colerain as 4GX alluded too, it’s not to hard to figure out why their athletic teams struggle.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
All the more reason a game against a Kirkland-type team makes sense here-- Kirtland probably has the same problem.

Despite your claims that "it would be a good game", there is a reason that when the very good small schools step up to play a Division I or II school, like Ironton (vs. Sycamore last year) and Coldwater (vs. Oak Hills this year), they do NOT do it against the best teams in the top Divisions-- you don't (and probably won't ever) see Coldwater stepping up to play Pickerington Central, or Mentor, or Elder or X, or Ig, or Ed-- despite many of those teams ALSO having a tough time filling their schedules-- all throughout the season-- not just in Week 2. Coldwater (if they truly have 80 players "dressed") will have as many or MORE players on the field as/than nearly all of those schools (except X)-- and more than DOUBLE what Division II Massillon Washington brought to X for a scrimmage last week.

As for Oak Hills being "pasted by Versailles a few years back"-- don't clap anybody on the back about that-- Oak Hills gets "pasted" by just about EVERYBODY they play-- Oak Hills would probably get pasted by St. Rita's School for the Deaf, if they still had a school (and a team). Oak Hills struggles to win one game a year, against the other worst team in their league-- despite being one of the 5 or 10 largest schools in enrollment in the state (once #1), and having a student body drawn from middle class suburbs with plenty of economic advantages-- it is one of the great mysteries of Cincinnati HS sports why Oak Hills is relatively poor in most sports; and it wasn't always thus: Oak Hills USED to be very good in wrestling, pretty good in baseball and basketball, and competitive in football-- but the district and the school have pretty much gone down the drain in athletics over the last 10-20 years... maybe now that Colerain is no longer going to be a dominant power in football, a few of the kids who are decent football players, around the edges of the Oak Hills district, who used to "somehow" find their way to playing for Colerain will now stay at home and play for Oak Hills-- but I'm not holding my breath.
Kirtland to Mercer Co. is 3.5 hrs. that is why you won't see a series between K and ML or CW.
 

dnis30

Well-known member
They can't find anyone willing to play and get the crap beat outta them. Just ask Mt. Healthy about Coldwater. Coldwater whipped up on them too. I believe this Cincinnati team got pasted by Versailles a few years back.
These small schools are not your typical d5-6-7 schools. I'd put Marion Local, Versailles, Coldwater, Minster, etc up against any team in the state and it would be a good game. I've watched all divisions and I've not seen much difference between a MAC school and some D1's.
Yes, there are some teams that would win 9 out of 10 times, but they are elite.
Minster vs St. Xavier or Pickerington Central. Let's gooooooooo!
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
It's easy to say as I don't know when the contracts for these games were hashed out, but it seems there could have been some more optimal matchups this week flipping opponents between this game and the Clinton-Massie/Anderson game.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Presumably Coldwater's team members like to play the game-- and would rather have a game than not-- the rest of the discussion (about points and seeding) is fairly pointless-- Coldwater is going to make the playoffs, regardless-- pretty much every team with a .500 record or better will now-- and seeding is NOT going to stop Coldwater from finding its level (pun intended) in the playoffs-- so this is one of those "inside baseball" (or football) type comments that has no bearing on what happens to Coldwater's team this year-- and neglects to recognize that the kids play the game for enjoyment-- NOT for "seeding" in the playoffs-- and this game will be a novel experience for all concerned, as these are totally non-traditional opponents from dramatically different divisions and geographies in the state, that rarely ever (or NEVER) meet.

Would it have been better if Coldwater had come down for a game against Wyoming (who instead played Oak Hills' neighbor, Division II Harrison, in a close game, this week)-- or across to play Kirtland-- yes-- but somehow, the coaches don't make those interesting and "sensible" cross-regional games against non-traditional rivals happen very often in the early regular season, in these smaller divisions, the way the Division I teams have started to do (with Ignatius playing Springfield, Mentor playing McKinley, and Massillon playing Pickerington Central)-- but maybe, with playoff attainment really no longer an issue, we can start to get some decent optional games played in the early regular season between traditional top teams from different parts of the state, down in the small school divisions, too.
Of course the kids would rather have a game than a bye week, virtually regardless of opponent. My response was to the previous poster's comment about the Cavs having an 0-10 opponent. In my neck of the woods a similar scenario prevented a D5 school from making the playoffs for the first time a couple years ago. They picked up a D7 school that went 0-10 as their week 2 opponent, and they finished 9th in their region with an 8-2 record. If they would have taken a bye that week and gone 7-2 instead, their final computer average would have been about 1.15 higher and they would have been the 7th seed in their region instead of narrowly missing the playoffs.

With the expanded playoff format, the above scenario should almost never happen to anyone that's any good at all for their level as virtually everyone who goes .500 should get in. Coldwater will likely be good enough relative to their region that the seeding won't really matter, but if they're in a closely seeded cluster of teams playing this game could drop them a couple spots if Oak Hills puts up a donut hole in the win column.
 
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