The OHSAA should be worried

Should schools finally stand up and leave the OHSAA?

  • Yes

    Votes: 61 51.7%

  • No

    Votes: 57 48.3%
  • Total voters
    118
T

TheBigRed1

Active member
Over the years I've had quite a few close friends involved in athletics. I am very close with 2 ADs in the Dayton area. Rumors are that local ADs have been meeting the last several weeks to set out a plan to leave the OHSAA and start an independent organization. Supposedly there is a local congressman who is leading the effort and wants to establish a new, state led, athletic association. It's all a little fuzzy and I don't know how much is factual but it sounds like this has been an culminating event over the last few years based on the following:

1. The OHSAA has been charging outrageous gate prices for all playoff games (but especially football). Schools are very upset because this money NEVER finds its way back to the schools. Where is it all going? The OHSAA is making tens of thousands of dollars PER playoff football game while. For those of you that don't know, Ohio has 7 divisions with 64 teams making the playoffs per division....Start doing the math there. Host schools get a few thousand to host and then get to keep the concession money. The rest goes directly to the OHSAA.

2. With all that funding, the OHSAA has still not fully addressed the officiating situation. I am not one to blame officials for games, but man the officiating can be absolutely BRUTAL at times. Their is a shortage, i understand, but provide higher training and incentive for these refs to get better!

3. Going off the above, the OHSAA has done nothing to address the unruly fans. ADs are tired of having to escort people out of games which often times gets physical. They don't want the liability of that and they're sick of the OHSAA not doing anything. The "Respect the Game Program" that was recently relaunched is nothing but a way for the OHSAA to put the responsibility back into the hands of the...you guessed it...athletic directors.

4. The disparity between public and parochial schools is becoming out of control. Just take a look at the state finals for football. Division I, II, and III all dominated by private schools. Toledo Central Catholic, a school that won Division II last year, was bumped down to Division III this year and wins the finals in dominant fashion. ADs are tired of seeing their public school kids get robbed of a real chance. They want parochial and public schools separated come state tournament time.

These are the biggest reasons I was told but I know they are working on drafting an entire letter to send to the OHSAA with their demands. They want the OHSAA to provide a real plan and address these issues immediately or they are going to pull out and start a new state ran athletic association. Rumors are they have atleast 65 schools who are willing to sign onto this letter and the numbers will grow by the weeks.

Before anyone comes at me, I just want to clarify that the above words are not mine-- this is all information I have been verbally told by 2 very reliable sources. Take how you want.
 
 
One thing with CB that needs issued....if you win a state championship in a Division, the next year you should automatically be bumped up a division. If you don't win it the next year, drop back down a division. You can inadvertently play leapfrog that way, but in the long run would help competition.
 
Unruly fans can be escorted out by police at the games.

The public/private split could happen anytime, but not enough publics must want it to happen because they’ve never actually advocated for the split…just individual schools biatching when they lose to a private.

The expanded playoffs are a money grab and everyone knows it.

The lack of officials has more to do with the abuse dished out by coaches and fans than any other reason.
 
catscatscats said:
It depends what schools choose to do this and how many schools. I think there needs to be a lot of changes from OHSAA in all sports but this seems a bit extreme
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Maybe extreme is what the OHSAA needs to wake up? I think the best way is to get a bunch of schools to threaten to leave and scare the OHSAA into making a move.
 
commodore20 said:
One thing with CB that needs issued....if you win a state championship in a Division, the next year you should automatically be bumped up a division. If you don't win it the next year, drop back down a division. You can inadvertently play leapfrog that way, but in the long run would help competition.
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That’s the dumbest thing ever. Why isn’t it if you don’t win a state championship you drop a division the next season so you have a better shot against lower competition.

Explain the difference in my thought vs yours??
 
2. With all that funding, the OHSAA has still not fully addressed the officiating situation. I am not one to blame officials for games, but man the officiating can be absolutely BRUTAL at times. Their is a shortage, i understand, but provide higher training and incentive for these refs to get better!”

Officiating hasn’t been worse at the pro or college levels either. Not sure what’s to address or figure out when you dont even have a physical fitness test for people officiating highly physical fitness sports.

Seperately, kids stink these days compared to 30 years ago. Officials simply aren’t costing teams many wins as it is the terrible play in said sports.
 
TheBigRed1 said:
Maybe extreme is what the OHSAA needs to wake up? I think the best way is to get a bunch of schools to threaten to leave and scare the OHSAA into making a move.
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Why don’t those ADs, instead of leaving the OHSAA, just propose and vote on rules they want to see changed?
Because they’re too lazy to do that, and they’re too lazy to leave too. All talk, no action.
 
TheBigRed1 said:
Over the years I've had quite a few close friends involved in athletics. I am very close with 2 ADs in the Dayton area. Rumors are that local ADs have been meeting the last several weeks to set out a plan to leave the OHSAA and start an independent organization. Supposedly there is a local congressman who is leading the effort and wants to establish a new, state led, athletic association.
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Alas, the area of Ohio that decries “big guv’ment” wants… <checks notes>…

an expanded bureaucratic state to be paid for by taxpayers like you.
 
Why would OHSAA have any responsibility for dealing with unruly fans at a (presumably) regular season game?

BTW, 3 of the D2 Final Four were publics. A public won it. Seems a strange definition of "domination".

They're right about the money. OHSAA charges too much and they keep too much.

Dunno who the local "congressman" (do ya mean state rep?) is, but vote him out.
 
This year it looks like 2 privates and 5 publics will win state championships in football. There was a time when 5 or 6 privates were winning state championships. Now are the privates winning the only ones that count? It seems competitive balance is working. Is no state championships is what you're really after?
 
One of the biggest reasons there won't be a split or a new association, etc... Indifference. It's not that the schools really don't have issues with OHSAA here or there. It's a matter of them not caring enough to follow through with solving those problems. The status quo works well enough as is, so it just continues.
 
School administration does not want to deal with their own unruly fans and want somebody from Columbus to attend the 350+ football games every week to take care of it.

The way to fix that is to quit the OHSAA so that there is no central organization to help member schools.

Did I get that right?
 
Oil Filter said:
Most school administrators are lazy. OHSAA already exists and it makes their life easier. Are they going to upset the apple cart for something that makes them work harder and may provide only marginal benefit? Ain't happening.
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Only really motivated people work harder for fewer benefits.

Is that really what you meant to say?
 
Sykotyk said:
One of the biggest reasons there won't be a split or a new association, etc... Indifference. It's not that the schools really don't have issues with OHSAA here or there. It's a matter of them not caring enough to follow through with solving those problems. The status quo works well enough as is, so it just continues.
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Has there ever been a statewide vote? My understanding/recollection is that OHSAA lobbied hard for small schools (that is where the numbers are) to get behind the CB rules and OE transfer rules as a way of avoiding a separation vote. They also granted them added divisions. They don't have to deal with what D1 to D3/4 have to deal with. If that sounds like the small school lobby sold the rest of the state up the river, yeah kinda.

I am very open to correction if I'm off.
 
Oil Filter said:
You apparently don't know what the phrase "marginal benefit" means.
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A marginal benefit may also be used to refer to the satisfaction that a customer receives after purchasing an additional good or service.

So what is the additional good or service lazy school administrators are getting by doing for themselves what the OHSAA used to do?
 
Sykotyk said:
One of the biggest reasons there won't be a split or a new association, etc... Indifference. It's not that the schools really don't have issues with OHSAA here or there. It's a matter of them not caring enough to follow through with solving those problems. The status quo works well enough as is, so it just continues.
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These wisely words could be applied to more than just HS football in Ohio. 😉
 
chs1971 said:
A marginal benefit may also be used to refer to the satisfaction that a customer receives after purchasing an additional good or service.

So what is the additional good or service lazy school administrators are getting by doing for themselves what the OHSAA used to do?
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All anyone gets from this is that, as asserted, you didn't know what marginal benefit is. You said it meant "fewer benefits". Once you looked it up, you belatedly realize it means "additional benefits".

So what marginal benefit might they get? Maybe a cut of ticket sales? Maybe travel money? Is that worth the effort required to toss OHSAA and come up with a new governing organization? Doubtful the schools would think so.
 
TigerPaw said:
Has there ever been a statewide vote? My understanding/recollection is that OHSAA lobbied hard for small schools (that is where the numbers are) to get behind the CB rules and OE transfer rules as a way of avoiding a separation vote. They also granted them added divisions. They don't have to deal with what D1 to D3/4 have to deal with. If that sounds like the small school lobby sold the rest of the state up the river, yeah kinda.
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Adding divisions isn't entirely altruistic with the OHSAA. Another tournament means more revenue. It's not like they split D6 and left the other 5 alone. In fact, they kinda split D1 and merged the rest into a 6-division setup.

It's one reason you'll never see OHSAA go down in numbers.

In fact, the only state I know of that has shrunk their championship numbers was North Carolina. They went from 8 to 4. However, They only have 4 classifications. When playoff time comes, they split the state into A and AA for each class. They just decided not to split them again.

Technically, Michigan does the split, but they do it earlier and not as obvious. Their A, B, C, and D classes because 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8.

Maryland's public MPSSAA went from 4 classes (1A, 2A, 3A, and 4A) to 6 (1A, 1A/2A, 2A, 3A, 3A/4A, and 4A). This created an Indiana-type situation where everyone was able to enter the playoffs. They kept it after covid. Not entirely sure how the split is determined but the biggest 1A and smallest 2A are in the combined tournament. Same with the 3A/4A.
 
TigerPaw said:
Has there ever been a statewide vote? My understanding/recollection is that OHSAA lobbied hard for small schools (that is where the numbers are) to get behind the CB rules and OE transfer rules as a way of avoiding a separation vote. They also granted them added divisions. They don't have to deal with what D1 to D3/4 have to deal with. If that sounds like the small school lobby sold the rest of the state up the river, yeah kinda.

I am very open to correction if I'm off.
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Yes, the current CB plan was voted on by schools, and there have been three votes in the history of the OHSAA to separate, all of which obviously failed.
Should the schools want to vote on that again, they can put it on the ballot at any time.
 
Oil Filter said:
Did they vote for the expansion to 16 teams per region, inflated ticket prices, or no longer giving schools a cut of ticket sales?
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No, but they could put these things on the ballot anytime they wanted to, and haven’t. Or vote for new members of the board of directors, who approved all these things.
 
I truly believe that if you make the final four in football multiple years those teams get bumped up a division.
Akron Hoban, Massillon, Glenville, Marion Local, Kirkland, etc, should all be bumped up a division. Teams that don’t win get bumped down. It would take some major work each year by a committee to accomplish this task. Determining what teams belong where. But with time it could be worked out. Sure there’s challenges to this. With change there always is. But simply saying bump up by enrollment or private vs public is not the answer. It’s the easy answer. But not the correct answer. Appeasing the masses is all the OHSAA is concerned with. Not putting in the work to get it right. One example that really shows the OHSAA could care less is the Glenville loophole. Most boys in Glenville’s roster attend the Ginn Academy. That allows Glenville to use waters down boys enrollment numbers moving Glenville to
D-4. How is this possible. Things need to change. Loopholes need to be closed. A committee needs to be formed to make the proper adjustments to determine who plays in what division.
 
Sykotyk said:
In fact, the only state I know of that has shrunk their championship numbers was North Carolina. They went from 8 to 4. However, They only have 4 classifications.
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I just read an article that NC went to 8 divisions. They have some weird requirement that a division can only have 64 teams, and they could have accommodated that with 7 divisions. However, they have a bunch of schools that aren't members, they wanted to leave room for expansion, and 7 divisions would put 62-3 teams in each division with little room to add more.

Or maybe that was an old article?
 
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