The OHSAA should be worried

[umpire16]

Ah yes…….

The annual “we should leave the OHSAA” battle cry.

As timely as the buzzards returning to Hinckley.

At least the buzzards actually return

This might be the best metaphor ever presented on this forum.

 

[queencitybuckeye]

Anything is better than the crooks at the OHSAA

Sure it is. If you don't think OHSAA is responsive to its membership (which BTW are the member schools and not you and I), give the government the power to run things. Your premise is absurd.

 

[TheBigRed1]

Didn't realize we had so many OHSAA homers on here...Maybe the OHSAA has an entire department (funded by your local schools, of course) who is dedicated to sitting on yappi all day trying to save face LOL

 

[cmonman]

Over the years I've had quite a few close friends involved in athletics. I am very close with 2 ADs in the Dayton area. Rumors are that local ADs have been meeting the last several weeks to set out a plan to leave the OHSAA and start an independent organization. Supposedly there is a local congressman who is leading the effort and wants to establish a new, state led, athletic association. It's all a little fuzzy and I don't know how much is factual but it sounds like this has been an culminating event over the last few years based on the following:

1. The OHSAA has been charging outrageous gate prices for all playoff games (but especially football). Schools are very upset because this money NEVER finds its way back to the schools. Where is it all going? The OHSAA is making tens of thousands of dollars PER playoff football game while. For those of you that don't know, Ohio has 7 divisions with 64 teams making the playoffs per division....Start doing the math there. Host schools get a few thousand to host and then get to keep the concession money. The rest goes directly to the OHSAA.

2. With all that funding, the OHSAA has still not fully addressed the officiating situation. I am not one to blame officials for games, but man the officiating can be absolutely BRUTAL at times. Their is a shortage, i understand, but provide higher training and incentive for these refs to get better!

3. Going off the above, the OHSAA has done nothing to address the unruly fans. ADs are tired of having to escort people out of games which often times gets physical. They don't want the liability of that and they're sick of the OHSAA not doing anything. The "Respect the Game Program" that was recently relaunched is nothing but a way for the OHSAA to put the responsibility back into the hands of the...you guessed it...athletic directors.

4. The disparity between public and parochial schools is becoming out of control. Just take a look at the state finals for football. Division I, II, and III all dominated by private schools. Toledo Central Catholic, a school that won Division II last year, was bumped down to Division III this year and wins the finals in dominant fashion. ADs are tired of seeing their public school kids get robbed of a real chance. They want parochial and public schools separated come state tournament time.

These are the biggest reasons I was told but I know they are working on drafting an entire letter to send to the OHSAA with their demands. They want the OHSAA to provide a real plan and address these issues immediately or they are going to pull out and start a new state ran athletic association. Rumors are they have atleast 65 schools who are willing to sign onto this letter and the numbers will grow by the weeks.

Before anyone comes at me, I just want to clarify that the above words are not mine-- this is all information I have been verbally told by 2 very reliable sources. Take how you want.

LOL - #1 - playoff prices are like that in most states, not just Ohio
#2 - There's an official shortage & quality of official shortage everywhere, not just Ohio - changing association names isn't going to help it.
#3 - Fans are unruly EVERYWHERE - how does leaving the OHSAA help that?
#4 - There are enough divisions. Heck, some states compete all of their schools/sizes in the same, or fewer amount of divisions.

We don't all have to be champions to be winners.

 

[TigerPaw]

Competitive balance had a lot to do with Marion local and Coldwater not playing Mooney and Ursuline. Those games provided the springboard for all of this.

and yes I know Coldwater beat Mooney one time. But John reed and Eric goodwin were not ok with playing them.

fast forward almost 20 years and you have TCC playing in a division with bloom Carroll and Clyde
And glenville playing in a division with Sheridan and van wert
lots of schools are not ok with that.

I mentioned that earlier. Small school publics which is a huge lobby took the bargain and sold others out in the process. That's all CB did, was to get their vote and avoid separation. They have no incentive to change the status quo. I still think it would be a close vote in favor though. Like you said the upper divisions are growing weary.

In my perfect world I'd have 2 privates and 4 publics. You'd have more exciting/intriguing matchups not fewer. And obviously regular season public vs. private games would still exist, and maybe more of them this way, and they would have added interest as well.

 

[PeterDragon]

Competitive balance had a lot to do with Marion local and Coldwater not playing Mooney and Ursuline. Those games provided the springboard for all of this.

and yes I know Coldwater beat Mooney one time. But John reed and Eric goodwin were not ok with playing them.

fast forward almost 20 years and you have TCC playing in a division with bloom Carroll and Clyde
And glenville playing in a division with Sheridan and van wert
lots of schools are not ok with that.

Who is Eric goodwin?

 

[chs1971]

Didn't realize we had so many OHSAA homers on here...Maybe the OHSAA has an entire department (funded by your local schools, of course) who is dedicated to sitting on yappi all day trying to save face LOL

Maybe you're just wrong.

LOL

 

[chs1971]

I mentioned that earlier. Small school publics which is a huge lobby took the bargain and sold others out in the process. That's all CB did, was to get their vote and avoid separation. They have no incentive to change the status quo. I still think it would be a close vote in favor though. Like you said the upper divisions are growing weary.

True for almost every school in the state.

In my perfect world I'd have 2 privates and 4 publics. You'd have more exciting/intriguing matchups not fewer. And obviously regular season public vs. private games would still exist, and maybe more of them this way, and they would have added interest as well.

I don't have a problem with a split, but reducing from 7 divisions to 4 is too drastic.

 

[hammer89]

Back in the day OHSAA used to give schools allowance per dressed player for transportation, hotel, food etc.. now schools have to foot that bill 100% while OHSAA makes money off of them

And they were then told that’s illegal for non-profits to do, and stopped. blame the law.

 

[TigerPaw]

True for almost every school in the state.

D1 - D4 publics are happy with the status quo? You sure? Guess I've been reading a different a forum lately.

I don't have a problem with a split, but reducing from 7 divisions to 4 is too drastic.

You mean 7 to 6? Too drastic for OHSAA maybe. They are all about $$$ and more teams more games. But D1-D2 publics can certainly compete with each other and so can D5.5-D7 publics, with alot of matchups many want to see happen.

 

[Irving Mainway]

No disrespect but the way you put it makes it sound dumb but in all reality is actually kind of smart if you do it like this in my opinion. You could honestly combine the private schools from D1 and D2 because they are more equal to each other as far as enrollment size then do the same for D3 and D4. So in reality that leaves you D5-D7 I can't think of any dominant private schools in the lower divisions off the top of my head but then you would just combine all the private schools in the lower divisions and boom that's how you would do it obviously you wouldn't just group all them together I mean if you did oh well tough luck and I'm not all for everybody gets a trophy but think about how many times a public school when it gets a private school and a private school like Bishop Watterson or Bishop Hartley knocked out of public school that had no chance but that might have been that school's best class ever but they ran into a school that had an advantage over them. Life is tough sometimes..... Oh might I also asked since everybody on here complains about Glenville then technically that will put Glenville in the private school division because they are under the "Academy" category.

Glenville could just change their title.

 

[chs1971]

D1 - D4 publics are happy with the status quo? You sure? Guess I've been reading a different a forum lately.

No school administrators are posting in this forum.

You mean 7 to 6? Too drastic for OHSAA maybe. They are all about $$$ and more teams more games. But D1-D2 publics can certainly compete with each other and so can D5.5-D7 publics, with alot of matchups many want to see happen.

I don't think there are many private schools. They would create 2 much smaller divisions and the other 4 would be larger than current.

 

[smurfyeah19]

The OHSAA is in trouble, but the biggest issue facing them is the officials shortage. We’re likely 5 years away from Friday and Saturday games being a regular thing as most JV games anymore are being done with 3 officials

 

[playboi12]

I don’t know all the details…just that there’s been discussion and communication with state reps/congressmen…it’s got to start somewhere. Meanwhile, the rest of us need to start writing/calling state officials as well. I have boys who will be in high school before long and I definitely want to see change for them so I’ll be doing my part to make my voice heard on this matte

No disrespect but the way you put it makes it sound dumb but in all reality is actually kind of smart if you do it like this in my opinion. You could honestly combine the private schools from D1 and D2 because they are more equal to each other as far as enrollment size then do the same for D3 and D4. So in reality that leaves you D5-D7 I can't think of any dominant private schools in the lower divisions off the top of my head but then you would just combine all the private schools in the lower divisions and boom that's how you would do it obviously you wouldn't just group all them together I mean if you did oh well tough luck and I'm not all for everybody gets a trophy but think about how many times a public school when it gets a private school and a private school like Bishop Watterson or Bishop Hartley knocked out of public school that had no chance but that might have been that school's best class ever but they ran into a school that had an advantage over them. Life is tough sometimes..... Oh might I also asked since everybody on here complains about Glenville then technically that will put Glenville in the private school division because they are under the "Academy" category.

It’s not like people don’t have options. If people want to keep belly-aching about this, they can always move to another state.

 

[Sykotyk]

And they were then told that’s illegal for non-profits to do, and stopped. blame the law.

Didn't know PA was breaking the law.

Maybe to get around this law the OHSAA could let schools keep a percentage of the ticket sales instead.... Like they used to.

 

[Sykotyk]

LOL - #1 - playoff prices are like that in most states, not just Ohio
#2 - There's an official shortage & quality of official shortage everywhere, not just Ohio - changing association names isn't going to help it.
#3 - Fans are unruly EVERYWHERE - how does leaving the OHSAA help that?
#4 - There are enough divisions. Heck, some states compete all of their schools/sizes in the same, or fewer amount of divisions.

We don't all have to be champions to be winners.

No, they're not. Some states playing at much bigger venues charge more but usually get more than one game on the same ticket. Such as Michigan, Texas, or Georgia.

But even then most are still cheaper than Ohio. West Virginia Is $9. PA is $9.....and that's for title games. Ohio is $16 at the cheapest.

Let me correct that... PA is $8 for championship games. And yet somehow the PIAA still functions.

 

[TigerPaw]

The OHSAA is in trouble, but the biggest issue facing them is the officials shortage. We’re likely 5 years away from Friday and Saturday games being a regular thing as most JV games anymore are being done with 3 officials

Ohio has ALOT of schools. Too many. Is what it is though that's how it was built.

 

[BleedingO&B]

It’s not like people don’t have options. If people want to keep belly-aching about this, they can always move to another state.

lol…that’s not an option. Upending your entire life (home, career/livelihood, family, friends, finances) is not an option.

 

[hammer89]

Didn't know PA was breaking the law.

Maybe to get around this law the OHSAA could let schools keep a percentage of the ticket sales instead.... Like they used to.

Nope, that’s also illegal for a non-profit, as it’s direct profit sharing. Anything that gives money to some members, but not all members that’s directly tied to playoff performance or profit motivation (ticket sales), they can’t legally do.

 

[BleedingO&B]

And they were then told that’s illegal for non-profits to do, and stopped. blame the law.

But it’s legal for a nonprofit to pay their board members 6 figures and sit on top of millions that they made riding the backs of teenagers. OHSAA is sleezey and I’m sure politicians and the law are in their back pocket. Nothing wrong with voicing your frustrations over it.

 

[hammer89]

But it’s legal for a nonprofit to pay their board members 6 figures and sit on top of millions that they made riding the backs of teenagers. OHSAA is sleezey and I’m sure politicians and the law are in their back pocket. Nothing wrong with voicing your frustrations over it.

The OHSAA doesn’t pay board members anything. Try again.

 

[PeterDragon]

No school administrators are posting in this forum.

I don't think there are many private schools. They would create 2 much smaller divisions and the other 4 would be larger than current.

How do you know that no administrators are posting? Over 800 schools in Ohio. You have no idea who is posting and who isn't. Besides its none of your business who posts.

 

[Mikefln]

Nope, that’s also illegal for a non-profit, as it’s direct profit sharing. Anything that gives money to some members, but not all members that’s directly tied to playoff performance or profit motivation (ticket sales), they can’t legally do.

You cannot be serious? School A sells X tickets they get a % of X tickets. Nothing illegal about that, that I see but IANAL. Please show me the law that states it is illegal.

 

[hammer89]

You cannot be serious? School A sells X tickets they get a % of X tickets. Nothing illegal about that, that I see but IANAL. Please show me the law that states it is illegal.

Completely serious. It’s IRS tax code relating to non-profits. They cannot give profit incentives to some members (teams in playoff games) and not others. That’s why all schools get the same amount of reimbursement now.

 

[Oil Filter]

Then have the schools sell the tickets and kick an administrative fee up to OHSAA.

 

[Mikefln]

Completely serious. It’s IRS tax code relating to non-profits. They cannot give profit incentives to some members (teams in playoff games) and not others. That’s why all schools get the same amount of reimbursement now.

That is not what I said. I said school A sells x tickets and keeps a processing fee from that. Where is the law on that? School C is not going to sell tickets to a game between schools A vs B, so they are not in the discussion. That is just one way around it. I can think of many other if I had time.

 

[hammer89]

That is not what I said. I said school A sells x tickets and keeps a processing fee from that. Where is the law on that? School C is not going to sell tickets to a game between schools A vs B, so they are not in the discussion. That is just one way around it. I can think of many other if I had time.

You aren’t understanding- playoff games are fully controlled by the OHSAA. They cannot give money to the schools participating in the game that they do not also give to all the other member schools, per IRS non-profit laws. The OHSAA cannot give money to some of its members and not all of its members.

 

[19AL63]

One thing with CB that needs issued....if you win a state championship in a Division, the next year you should automatically be bumped up a division. If you don't win it the next year, drop back down a division. You can inadvertently play leapfrog that way, but in the long run would help competition.

I just do not like the get punished for being a champion. What do you do with Div I tell them they have to play small college ball?

 

[Mikefln]

You aren’t understanding- playoff games are fully controlled by the OHSAA. They cannot give money to the schools participating in the game that they do not also give to all the other member schools, per IRS non-profit laws. The OHSAA cannot give money to some of its members and not all of its members.

You're not understanding. OHSAA should surrender some of the control and allow the schools in the game to sell the tickets. If school A and B is performing a service for OHSAA, that school C-Z are not performing i.e. selling the actual ticket in my case and getting an administration for that service, then how is a law broken? Schools C-Z are not performing any administrative duties, to warrant compensation. By the way, that is a stupid law and needs to at least be adjusted if not outright removed.

 

[hammer89]

You're not understanding. OHSAA should surrender some of the control and allow the schools in the game to sell the tickets. If school A and B is performing a service for OHSAA, that school C-Z are not performing i.e. selling the actual ticket in my case and getting an administration for that service, then how is a law broken? Schools C-Z are not performing any administrative duties, to warrant compensation. By the way, that is a stupid law and needs to at least be adjusted if not outright removed.

Ok you go ahead and call Congress to get the IRS tax code revised for the benefit of high school athletic ticket sales.