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Bordertown
New member
No bored by the subject but I think football in Vermont is pathetic. But I do like their maple syrup.
I'm wondering if DLS will EVER get back to national prominence now that an improved (not great but improved) California playoff has exposed them as being less than elite.
consumerman
New member
losing one game in 2006 with a team with maybe 1 Div 1 recruit does not diminish what the great streak teams that had up to 10 Div 1 recruits accomplished
that you can not understand this speaks volumes
Hee hee. It worked.
Chicago: Let me know if I can be of service again. Can you believe he responded within 2 minutes? Wow.
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consumerman
New member
oh well
there is SO much action on this site (NOT)
I havent been here in 2 weeks and except for a few boring diatribes between pied and bordertown there is nothing else to look at
there is SO much action on this site (NOT)
I havent been here in 2 weeks and except for a few boring diatribes between pied and bordertown there is nothing else to look at
I see you are as gracious as ever. LOL No need to be so paranoid. Nobody said anything about your precious streak.
Honestly, do you think DLS will be an elite team this year? Since they haven't had a truly great season since 2003, I'm wondering if they will ever get back to national prominence again.
What do you think? Do you see them appearing in the national rankings this year?
EaglePride01
Well-known member
What do you guys think about Jamie DeMoney informing the Cincinnati Enquirer that he will most likely start St. X off as the preseason #1 in the Prepnation poll? I assumed that spot would have been reserved for SLC or Northwestern.
Bordertown
New member
It's not how you start, but how you finish. If you finish #1 in the nation, it will be disputed. The only thing that is certain is how a team finishes in its state or sectional competition.
That would be interesting considering NONE of the human polls ranked St.X last year in the top 25 (final polls). Jamie DeMoney himself didn't even rank St.X. The best he could do was rank St.X at 7th in the mid-west.
Considering all the talent that Miami Northwestern has coming back, plus some transfers, putting St.X at #1 seems like a huge leap in logic to me. Does Jamie DeMoney know something we don't?
Having said that, the early polls don't mean a whole lot. The season will sort out the rankings anyway.
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consumerman
New member
the rumor is that a new leader of dls (whatever they call it, head father or whatever) became concerned that dls was becoming too famous as a football factory and decided to step in and halt possible new students that were also outstanding football players (dls costs about 8,000 a year to attend and there is a limited number of grants available)
this happened about 5-6 years ago
the first football team to truly be hit by this policy was the 2004 team, which played an unbelievingly tough schedule, but nonetheless started out 2-3-2 and had less talent that any dls team in 20 years
the 2005 and 2006 teams were not that much better talentwise, I do think moving them into the #1 ranking by USA Today was a bit of a stretch
I do not see DLS being a top national team if this policy (a rumor but probably true nonetheless) continues
and again that is the rumor but it seems to have played out as far as athletes
Do you realize what you just posted?
You said that DLS had been offering scholarships (grants) to great football players. You said that is the reason the talent on the team has dropped. The implication is that these grants are the reason DLS was great in the past (they had given grants to great players). You may say that is not recruiting, but it's very close.
Wow.
EaglePride01
Well-known member
Completely agreed. But if St. X runs their gaunlet of Glenville, DeMatha, St. Edward, Elder, Moeller, St. Ignatius, and than a possible regional showdown with Colerain and whoever they may face in a state championship, I believe they will certainly have earned it.
consumerman
New member
i think you are missing it
instead of allowing a few athletes to be blindly involved in receiving grants (less than the % of football players per total student population) the rumor is this guy has gone out of his way to even stop that
Bordertown
New member
A applaude the Head. Athletics is to complement academics and not the other way around. DLS as an institution will survive into the future based on how it prepares its young men for college and the success they have academically and professionally later in life.
I am aware of some schools that seem to recruit for athletics first and academics second. They seem to spend an excessive amount of time defending their institutions academically. This is wasted effort. I have never questioned whether DLS has misplaced priorities.
I am aware of some schools that seem to recruit for athletics first and academics second. They seem to spend an excessive amount of time defending their institutions academically. This is wasted effort. I have never questioned whether DLS has misplaced priorities.
Bordertown
New member
I agree with the schedule being top notch. But in the end if SLC or MNW (or "_______" ) goes undefeated you will not know if you are the best in the nation. I agree, it would be a great feat.
EaglePride01
Well-known member
Well thats the case every year. I guess thats why its referred to as the "mythical" national championship.
ams eds fan
New member
Of course you and I both know they will be stopped by that number 3 team.
:thumb:
EaglePride01
Well-known member
Its payback time!
EaglePride01
Well-known member
Prepnations justification of the X preseason ranking:
The criteria we use for compiling our preseason poll is as follows:
1) Returning talent (impact players, Division I talent, etc.): St. X has six players with Division I offers as of July 1, according to their coach.
Two of the three other teams we gave serious consideration for preseason No. 1 did have more returning Division I talent than St. X. But the total number of potential of DI/IAA players is more similar than you think.
2) Returning experienced players: St X has 15 returning full-time starters, seven of whom started as sophs on the state championship team.
Only one of the three other teams we considered have as many starters returning (DeMatha). Southlake Carroll has only three starters back on defense.
3) Returning coaching staff: St X returns its entire coaching staff, which has a 36-3 cumulative record the last three seasons.
Two of the other three teams that we gave serious consideration to for the preseason No. 1 ranking enter the year with a new HC and new coordinators. One team (Miami NW) has an entirely new staff that didn't come on board until midway through July.
4) Strength of schedule: St X plays arguably the toughest regular season schedule in the country. Every team on its schedule had at least a 5-5 record last season (LaSalle and Moeller) with a cumulative record of 86-29. Probably five opponents will be in the Ohio Top 10 to start the year. In addition, they will play Top 5-ranked DeMatha, Top 50-ranked Glenville and Louisville Trinity, plus defending Indiana 3A champ Cathedral.
The three other teams we gave serious consideration to for preseason No. 1 do not play a regular season schedule that is comparable to St. X's. Miami Northwestern, for example, will play Southlake Carroll. However, the in-state teams on their schedule had only a combined 56-45-1 record last season and zero of those teams figure to be in the overall state Top 10 to start the season (probably not even the Top 20).
5) Ability to achieve a significant postseason championship. In our opinion, winning the Ohio D1 is often more difficult than winning a title in Texas, Florida or California because the large schools are split into more divisions in those states.
So, strength of schedule is a factor ... but it is not the ONLY factor.
Think of it as a stew ... beef is an ingredient, but not the ONLY ingredient
So there you have it.
Nobody in the country has as much returning talent as Miami Northwestern. They have THREE players in the national top 100! That is off the charts. SLC has never had a top 100 player. I doubt StX has any either this year. MNW has three.
The downside to MNW is that their entire coaching staff was fired about a month ago for cheating in the Easterling situation. They hired a two-time state champion coach so I'm guessing they will be fine at coach.
You said StX should be ranked high because they have a tough schedule. Isn't it to early for that to be a factor? If they win against a tough schedule, THEN should they be rewarded.
I believe the winner of the SLC/MNW game deserves to be #1 in the national polls. Both teams are defending state champs in major football states and both have a large number of players coming back.
The downside to MNW is that their entire coaching staff was fired about a month ago for cheating in the Easterling situation. They hired a two-time state champion coach so I'm guessing they will be fine at coach.
You said StX should be ranked high because they have a tough schedule. Isn't it to early for that to be a factor? If they win against a tough schedule, THEN should they be rewarded.
I believe the winner of the SLC/MNW game deserves to be #1 in the national polls. Both teams are defending state champs in major football states and both have a large number of players coming back.
RidgePride
New member
LMAO
RidgePride
New member
That guy must have ties to Ohio...That is the only explanation.
EaglePride01
Well-known member
None of that was from me. It was posted in the Ohio football forum by one of Prepnations staff, perhaps DeMoney himself. He was explaining to everyone why X was garnishing the #1 spot. A lot of people had a problem with strength of schedule being a deciding factor. But in todays world of high school football being brought to national attention, and with events such as the Herbie and more schools playing other out of state powers (SLC/MNW), I believe strength of schedule should be a factor in rankings.
But as you stated, its not only about scheduling the best, but beating them as well. And if X goes undefeated or even loses one game at some point in the regualr season, and then goes on to win states, I will find that more impressive than an undefeated run by a lot of other major schools.
I agree that strength of schedule is an important factor. However, I think it is laughable to give a team credit for tough games that haven't even been played yet.
In the case of StX, they were very highly ranked last year and they had a tough schedule. However, they lost twice. Now we are going to give them credit for a tough schedule BEFORE the games are played? It doesn't make sense.
It makes sense, IF you never jump teams over other teams that have won (although that, in itself, doesn't make sense).
This way, if they go undefeated against maybe the toughest schedule in the nation (although it might not turn out that way), they'll be number one, which makes sense (although someone with a slightly weaker schedule, or far weaker schedule, could still be better and all that).
I like jumping teams over each other. USA Today does that pretty well, I think (although the John Curtis being ranked number one with a week to go but a move down already being planned did not make a lot of sense).
And, as you have noted, computer polls jump teams all the time.
This is an improvement over the usual, but is by no means ideal.
This way, if they go undefeated against maybe the toughest schedule in the nation (although it might not turn out that way), they'll be number one, which makes sense (although someone with a slightly weaker schedule, or far weaker schedule, could still be better and all that).
I like jumping teams over each other. USA Today does that pretty well, I think (although the John Curtis being ranked number one with a week to go but a move down already being planned did not make a lot of sense).
And, as you have noted, computer polls jump teams all the time.
This is an improvement over the usual, but is by no means ideal.
You've highlighted one of the major flaws in the human rankings.
The computers don't have this problem. They essentially do a complete bottoms up ranking every week without any bias about reputation or jumping over another team, etc.
Obvious neither the computers nor humans are perfect. I think using them all together makes the most sense.
consumerman
New member
In 2001, Long Beach Poly had FIVE!!!!! players in the top 100 and were ranked #1 in the country and came off 2000 where they finished #2 in the country, ranked behind #1 De La Salle.
In the first ever game between the #1 and #2 teams in the country, played AT Long Beach Poly a few weeks after Sept. 911, DLS never trailed and won 29-15.
LB Poly ran the table and despite the loss to DLS, finished #3 in the country.
FIVE in the top 100.
Top that!
That headmaster is none other than Tom Bradys uncle.
RidgePride
New member
Grow Up!