The future of EdChoice

irish_buffalo said:
Smalls, you have the ability to see this for what it is and do a great job of setting aside bias as I know you have experienced both sides of the fence.

I am not anti EdChoice but am simply anti EdChoice as it is currently written which I believe is your point.

Regardless, the kids that you speak of and those stories are great and well deserved. However, would it not be nice for everyone to have that chance? I look at a kid like Little Anderson. He was an EdChoice kid. His mom is a great woman. She did not have the means to send her son to private school and therefore took advantage of EdChoice. You took one more "good" kid and parent from an already struggling district. At some point all that will be left is the undesirables. Who will educate these kids? Or at least try? Not the privates. I will NEVER fault a family for doing what is best for them but there has to be a level playing field. You cannot point to a public school as failing because you poached all of their talented kids. And keep in mind I have spent time coaching at city public schools. Parental influence is very lacking.

Still, you cannot measure one entity by certain standards, deem that entity as failing, and then allow kids to use vouchers to attend a school that is not measured by those same standards. That is numero uno what is wrong with EdChoice. Once the playing field is level I'm good even though there are still flaws.
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Anderson is a great example.

This may be too much information, but he specifically told me that he could have/would have been in the car with Banks from Waite and we all know how that ended. So my argument for some form of EdChoice is exactly that situation. He had the potential to be "sacrificed" for the potential greater good of the community. If I am his parent I say no thanks. Which thankfully she did.

I'll take his future now and the potential positives he can/will bring to the world vs being another statistic.
 
I get it, and that is one great example of many. As stated, and I will beat this dead horse, I will never fault anyone for bettering themselves but you simply cannot hold one entity to one standard and another entity to another while doing out money.
 
I assume this list is K-12.

Again those Orthodox Jewish schools are cleaning up in the Cleveland/University Heights District and causing a lot of angst with the Progressives who live in the District. So guess what Heights is rumored to be doing to alleviate the situation? Closing the under performing public grade school in the Jewish area and busing the few kids in that area to a passing school in another part of the District so they don't lose those $s. Now Jr and Sr. High Schools are failing so they will still lose those $s but they want the Orthodox moving in from NYC to feel a little pain in the process. In addition there is a Levy coming up for a vote on 3/17 and the amount of signs in the Jewish and Catholic enclaves against it is really something to see. I mean how many times do you see someone displaying a yard sign against a school levy?
 
Auggie said:
I assume this list is K-12.

Again those Orthodox Jewish schools are cleaning up in the Cleveland/University Heights District and causing a lot of angst with the Progressives who live in the District. So guess what Heights is rumored to be doing to alleviate the situation? Closing the under performing public grade school in the Jewish area and busing the few kids in that area to a passing school in another part of the District so they don't lose those $s. Now Jr and Sr. High Schools are failing so they will still lose those $s but they want the Orthodox moving in from NYC to feel a little pain in the process. In addition there is a Levy coming up for a vote on 3/17 and the amount of signs in the Jewish and Catholic enclaves against it is really something to see. I mean how many times do you see someone displaying a yard sign against a school levy?
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The first job of every bureaucrat.....
 
tom 48 said:
Public school districts with the most private school students.

www.cleveland.com

Which Ohio public school districts are home to most kids choosing private schools? See complete list

Census Bureau estimates for every Ohio school district for the share of students among residents enrolled in private schools.
www.cleveland.com www.cleveland.com
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Think of the great service private schools are doing for the entire state! They are giving over 13% of our kids great educations at a significant savings to taxpayers.
 
aged jock said:
Think of the great service private schools are doing for the entire state! They are giving over 13% of our kids great educations at a significant savings to taxpayers.
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Imagine the funding problems public district would have if all those kids came back to their schoolS.
 
Auggie said:
I assume this list is K-12.

Again those Orthodox Jewish schools are cleaning up in the Cleveland/University Heights District and causing a lot of angst with the Progressives who live in the District. So guess what Heights is rumored to be doing to alleviate the situation? Closing the under performing public grade school in the Jewish area and busing the few kids in that area to a passing school in another part of the District so they don't lose those $s. Now Jr and Sr. High Schools are failing so they will still lose those $s but they want the Orthodox moving in from NYC to feel a little pain in the process. In addition there is a Levy coming up for a vote on 3/17 and the amount of signs in the Jewish and Catholic enclaves against it is really something to see. I mean how many times do you see someone displaying a yard sign against a school levy?
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Does not surprise me one bit, we fight against taxes for services we do not use. As a business owner who sent our kids to a private school I was smarter than to offend the public school parents by sticking a sign in my yard against taxing myself. However, I have never voted for a school levy in my life. Why would I want to tax myself so others could have a better education and overspend by greater margins?
 
D4fan said:
Does not surprise me one bit, we fight against taxes for services we do not use. As a business owner who sent our kids to a private school I was smarter than to offend the public school parents by sticking a sign in my yard against taxing myself. However, I have never voted for a school levy in my life. Why would I want to tax myself so others could have a better education and overspend by greater margins?
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For anyone who cares here is a column on the levy and the organized opposition> https://www.cleveland.com/community...and-forth-continues-on-ch-uh-school-levy.html

Basically the pro levy side is blaming ed choice and the $7 million of lost revenue as a big driver for this need. On the against side they talk about the decline in overall student population and yet the overall budget remains the same thus making the per pupil cost higher. The folks against the levy also talk about how the district is out matched when it comes to negotiating with their unions which drives up the fixed costs.
 
tom 48 said:
Public school districts with the most private school students.

www.cleveland.com

Which Ohio public school districts are home to most kids choosing private schools? See complete list

Census Bureau estimates for every Ohio school district for the share of students among residents enrolled in private schools.
www.cleveland.com www.cleveland.com
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Some interesting numbers for the Toledo Area (high school data);

Lake 27.2%
Sylvania 21.0%
Springfield 17.5%
Toledo 16.8%
Perrysburg 16.5%
Rossford 16.5%
Maumee 11.6%
Ottawa Hills 11.5%
Washington Local 7.6%
Oregon 5.6%
Anthony Wayne 4.2%

I am surprised by the Sylvania, Perrysburg and Ottawa Hills numbers (Would have thought they were lower) and the Toledo number that I would have thought was higher.

Another interesting data point would be "who" is paying the tuition vs getting a voucher.
 
Smalls said:
Some interesting numbers for the Toledo Area (high school data);

Lake 27.2%
Sylvania 21.0%
Springfield 17.5%
Toledo 16.8%
Perrysburg 16.5%
Rossford 16.5%
Maumee 11.6%
Ottawa Hills 11.5%
Washington Local 7.6%
Oregon 5.6%
Anthony Wayne 4.2%

I am surprised by the Sylvania, Perrysburg and Ottawa Hills numbers (Would have thought they were lower) and the Toledo number that I would have thought was higher.

Another interesting data point would be "who" is paying the tuition vs getting a voucher.
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They have a higher percentage of higher economic asians and middle easterns that might be sending their kids to those specific schools. I suspect MVCD gets the heaviest draw but there are the Islamic schools. As well, they do permit Catholics in those districts. So a few may wish to attend one of our fine Catholic run institutions. Toledo Christian. Emmanuel. Some even go to TPS or Wood County magnets. Even Ottawa Hills has decided to get into that game. Though not private, they could be included in the data since it does have to be paid for. Maybe a case of many little numbers adding up to something "surprising?"
 
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Smalls said:
Some interesting numbers for the Toledo Area (high school data);

Lake 27.2%
Sylvania 21.0%
Springfield 17.5%
Toledo 16.8%
Perrysburg 16.5%
Rossford 16.5%
Maumee 11.6%
Ottawa Hills 11.5%
Washington Local 7.6%
Oregon 5.6%
Anthony Wayne 4.2%

I am surprised by the Sylvania, Perrysburg and Ottawa Hills numbers (Would have thought they were lower) and the Toledo number that I would have thought was higher.

Another interesting data point would be "who" is paying the tuition vs getting a voucher.
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That also claims 2.9% of Defiance 1-8 kids go to private schools (possible, with Holy Cross and St. John Lutheran in town), but somehow 4.7% of high school students do.

The closest private high schools to Defiance would be in Toledo, Delphos, Lima, or MAYBE Fort Wayne. There's zero chance that's legit.
 
dhsdog06 said:
That also claims 2.9% of Defiance 1-8 kids go to private schools (possible, with Holy Cross and St. John Lutheran in town), but somehow 4.7% of high school students do.

The closest private high schools to Defiance would be in Toledo, Delphos, Lima, or MAYBE Fort Wayne. There's zero chance that's legit.
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I agree that there is no way 4.7% of Defiance HS kids are in private schools. I wonder if that number includes home school kids.
 
dhsdog06 said:
That also claims 2.9% of Defiance 1-8 kids go to private schools (possible, with Holy Cross and St. John Lutheran in town), but somehow 4.7% of high school students do.

The closest private high schools to Defiance would be in Toledo, Delphos, Lima, or MAYBE Fort Wayne. There's zero chance that's legit.
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I’m not familiar with that area but I can almost guarantee you it is accurate. Nationwide, private school elementary enrollment has dropped dramatically while upper grades have increased. Those numbers are not surprising at all to people familiar with private school enrollment.
 
ringer2 said:
I’m not familiar with that area but I can almost guarantee you it is accurate. Nationwide, private school elementary enrollment has dropped dramatically while upper grades have increased. Those numbers are not surprising at all to people familiar with private school enrollment.
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Just didn't make sense when I thought it was private only. No way 4.7% of students in Defiance are driving or being driven an hour to private school.

But since it's home school as well, I'll believe it's legit.
 
Auggie said:
The Heights School District levy that was heavily sold as needed because of Ed Choice vouchers goes down in flames: https://www.cleveland.com/election-...ices-tax-school-issues-get-mixed-results.html

They will be back in November but there are a lot of folks using these that vote in the District so it should not be at the top of the pro levy campaign material...
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The vouchers are also one of the things keeping some private schools afloat. If memory serves me correct, Benedictine and Clev Central Catholic are two of the highest voucher users in Ohio. I’m not sure this is a great long term strategy though.
 
eagleflight said:
The vouchers are also one of the things keeping some private schools afloat. If memory serves me correct, Benedictine and Clev Central Catholic are two of the highest voucher users in Ohio. I’m not sure this is a great long term strategy though.
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These schools should be applauded for being willing to serve the underprivileged, even if it is a risky financial strategy.
 
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