The dept. of Education....

 
Tesoro said:
Me and my brother got into an argument yesterday....

To defend myself..I looked up the Dept Of Education..ie. size..expenditures.

Would you believe the dept has 4400 employees and has a budget of 68 billion dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a waste.
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4400 employees makes it the smallest federal agency by workforce. HUD is second smallest at about 9,000.
 
oxat622 said:
Without fail, every time someone around here criticizes education or someone else's intellect, they do it with grammar, syntax, spelling or punctuation errors.
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Hacking Work From Home GIF
 
Costa said:
Through the Constitution which describes what the federal government is responsible for. Hint: Education and HUD are not amongst those responsibilities.
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Citation needed and how does this relate to the other federal agencies?
 
psycho_dad said:
Literacy rate in the us in 1979 was 50%. Today it's 80%

So the department of education has a budget of about $1300 per student.
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Which had nothing to do with the department of education. Most people in 1979 did not need literacy to be a productive member of society, many were born in the 1800's. Many never had the opportunity for much of a formal education. Many farmed and went to school through 4th grade but were very accomplished in their trade. That generation has mostly died off.
By 1979 most went to school through high school and almost all in our country had the opportunity to do so. We were number one in the world in education. Then thanks in part to this useless overblown federal agency we are now 24th, even though we now spend the most per student.
Simply put, the states did it much better for much less.
 
Costa said:
Through the Constitution which describes what the federal government is responsible for. Hint: Education and HUD are not amongst those responsibilities.
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??? this is a F-in WAR!!! lol

From OP, I wasn't sure if this was about the Fed or State. Education is clearly under "general welfare." It is infrastructure and it is the primary affector of health, safety and prosperity of our citizens.

Debating "constitution" is not a pissing match worth the time, when effectiveness or lack of it is the easier target, be it fed or state.

As far as gniess, most of that I find laughable but this rings partly true:
"Simply put, the states did it much better for much less.."

Omit "for much less" and don't put too much credance into "much."
 
eastisbest said:
??? this is a F-in WAR!!! lol

From OP, I wasn't sure if this was about the Fed or State. Education is clearly under "general welfare." It is infrastructure and it is the primary affector of health, safety and prosperity of our citizens.

Debating "constitution" is not a pissing match worth the time, when effectiveness or lack of it is the easier target, be it fed or state.

As far as gniess, most of that I find laughable but this rings partly true:
"Simply put, the states did it much better for much less.."

Omit "for much less" and don't put too much credance into "much."
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Lol
 
Reminds me of the old definition of insanity. Doing the same things over and over again but expecting better results.

The budget for the federal Department of Education is $238 Billion.
The results are middle of the pack in comparing results among nations.

So would it be unreasonable to at least take a look at ways of making the DOE efficient and effective?
 
Omega said:
Reminds me of the old definition of insanity. Doing the same things over and over again but expecting better results.

The budget for the federal Department of Education is $238 Billion.
The results are middle of the pack in comparing results among nations.

So would it be unreasonable to at least take a look at ways of making the DOE efficient and effective?
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Feel free to take a gander, but I think in terms of K-12 education where a bunch of the money goes (funds for SPeD and funds for high poverty schools) inefficiency is baked into the cake.

If you itemized where money goes, those two things IMO have to play a huge part in cost per pupil increase over the years because the expenditures that went to those things were probably little to nothing before the DOE. A bunch of what the DOE funds is increased educational opportunities for kids that would have been at MRDD and similar schools in the 60s and 70s, along with funds for other extra support and remedial services that frankly, exist in abundance in high poverty areas due to the disintegration of society in those areas primarily as a result of deindustrialization. A bunch of places that conservatives would malign as having “crappy urban public school systems” have crappy public school systems in terms of standardized test performance because the communities have been gutted economically over the last 50 years resulting in many societal problems that are good predictors of poor student behavior and academic performance.

Could it be more efficient as a result of just block granting everything while gutting the DOE bureaucratic infrastructure? Perhaps. But this IMO needs a serious solution prior to any potential dismantling of the DOE. If there is no serious plan I can foresee gaping holes in servicing the two things I note here in K-12 education, resulting in a whole lot of new problems.
 
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Tesoro said:
Me and my brother got into an argument yesterday....

To defend myself..I looked up the Dept Of Education..ie. size..expenditures.

Would you believe the dept has 4400 employees and has a budget of 68 billion dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a waste.
Click to expand...
I can't get no education.
 
nwwarrior09 said:
Feel free to take a gander, but I think in terms of K-12 education where a bunch of the money goes (funds for SPeD and funds for high poverty schools) inefficiency is baked into the cake.

If you itemized where money goes, those two things IMO have to play a huge part in cost per pupil increase over the years because the expenditures that went to those things were probably little to nothing before the DOE. A bunch of what the DOE funds is increased educational opportunities for kids that would have been at MRDD and similar schools in the 60s and 70s, along with funds for other extra support and remedial services that frankly, exist in abundance in high poverty areas due to the disintegration of society in those areas primarily as a result of deindustrialization. A bunch of places that conservatives would malign as having “crappy urban public school systems” have crappy public school systems in terms of standardized test performance because the communities have been gutted economically over the last 50 years resulting in many societal problems that are good predictors of poor student behavior and academic performance.

Could it be more efficient as a result of just block granting everything while gutting the DOE bureaucratic infrastructure? Perhaps. But this IMO needs a serious solution prior to any potential dismantling of the DOE. If there is no serious plan I can foresee gaping holes in servicing the two things I note here in K-12 education, resulting in a whole lot of new problems.
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I have some limited experience with the public education system having done substitute teaching at the high school and community college level. I observe some good things, yet there is much that is beyond the pale of common sense. Things that have nothing to do with a child's learning.

My gut reaction is to blow up the DoEd. Redirect the money back to the states and local governments via block grants. Eliminate social engineering and policy strings attached to the money. Back to the 1950s so to speak. The educational system I grew up with.

Yet as you point out there are landmines. States and localities will develop there own bureaucracy and red tape. Hell, some counties where I have taught before would only do the barest of minimums, meaning MRDD programs would go, programs that help my two grandson's dyslexia and dysgraphia.

Bottom line is I do not have the answers as does anyone else. Yet a solution will never be found unless someone tries to disrupt the status quo. Even if DOGE or Trump fails to reign in the DofEd, just disrupting the status quo might cause the department to focus on its mission: education.
 
Omega said:
Reminds me of the old definition of insanity. Doing the same things over and over again but expecting better results.

The budget for the federal Department of Education is $238 Billion.
The results are middle of the pack in comparing results among nations.

So would it be unreasonable to at least take a look at ways of making the DOE efficient and effective?
Click to expand...
This department is a laundromat. The feds educate nobody; they pass out rewards for loyalty.
 
Omega said:
I have some limited experience with the public education system having done substitute teaching at the high school and community college level. I observe some good things, yet there is much that is beyond the pale of common sense. Things that have nothing to do with a child's learning.

My gut reaction is to blow up the DoEd. Redirect the money back to the states and local governments via block grants. Eliminate social engineering and policy strings attached to the money. Back to the 1950s so to speak. The educational system I grew up with.

Yet as you point out there are landmines. States and localities will develop there own bureaucracy and red tape. Hell, some counties where I have taught before would only do the barest of minimums, meaning MRDD programs would go, programs that help my two grandson's dyslexia and dysgraphia.

Bottom line is I do not have the answers as does anyone else. Yet a solution will never be found unless someone tries to disrupt the status quo. Even if DOGE or Trump fails to reign in the DofEd, just disrupting the status quo might cause the department to focus on its mission: education.
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Parting two thoughts here:

1) Getting to more block grant type authorizations of funds makes sense to me. One thing the federal government is actually good at is writing checks and distributing funds. Get money to the states. Have some framework (which mostly should already be in place with Title IX, etc.) to have some baseline standards while still having state level flexibility to be creative with solutions.

2) “Back to the 1950s.” People need to remember all of it, and not just the good parts. I previously mentioned MRDD schools and there being fewer educational options for kids with more serious cognitive and physical disabilities, with them often being restricted if not lacking any type of inclusion and being cast aside.

Part of the problem with public schools, and not just inner-city or urban schools, is the pendulum has swung all the way on discipline from “belt to ace” (and usually with parental support) all the way to the other direction and having issues with implementing serious consequences for bad behavior, and often being pushed on by negligent or unsupportive parents for having the nerve to try to discipline their kid.

I’m not saying we necessarily need to go back to “belt to ace”, but it needs to be made easier for public schools to rid themselves of the bad apples that slog the school culture and achievement, and there has to be better parent accountability for the extreme discipline and low academic students. Instead of bending over backwards and catering to these people at the expense of everyone else, the path to punting them to alternative placements needs to be eased.
 
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