SWOH D1 Thread

One final thought: the division change is still not going to help a team like Goshen because Sycamore, Winton Woods, and Elder (!!!) would all get moved down as well. If you just swapped some of the D2 private schools (Alter, Fenwick) for the low-end D1 schools, then Goshen could be competing against Wyoming, Woodward, Trotwood, and Tipp City for the best team in the region (literally would put Goshen about 3rd in D2 under that scenario). That would be better, no?
 
JBaller said:
One final thought: the division change is still not going to help a team like Goshen because Sycamore, Winton Woods, and Elder (!!!) would all get moved down as well. If you just swapped some of the D2 private schools (Alter, Fenwick) for the low-end D1 schools, then Goshen could be competing against Wyoming, Woodward, Trotwood, and Tipp City for the best team in the region (literally would put Goshen about 3rd in D2 under that scenario). That would be better, no?
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Honestly, the talent level isn't that much different at a place like Goshen, Elder and Sycamore once you take away each team's best player. It's not like these school are havens for skilled basketball talent.
 
JBaller said:
One final thought: the division change is still not going to help a team like Goshen because Sycamore, Winton Woods, and Elder (!!!) would all get moved down as well. If you just swapped some of the D2 private schools (Alter, Fenwick) for the low-end D1 schools, then Goshen could be competing against Wyoming, Woodward, Trotwood, and Tipp City for the best team in the region (literally would put Goshen about 3rd in D2 under that scenario). That would be better, no?
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Under the proposed change, Goshen may be D3?
I think D2 would include Elder at 606 and Sycamore at 631- Still twice as big as schools like Goshen, Western Brown, Ross, Monroe.

I'm not all about Goshen or anything, just felt like they were under attack and I root for those SBC, SWBL schools.
Doublehelix said:
Honestly, the talent level isn't that much different at a place like Goshen, Elder and Sycamore once you take away each team's best player. It's not like these school are havens for skilled basketball talent.
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Depth is the difference. A school like Western Brown may have a starting 5 that can run with a lot of schools, and they may have a 6th man that can plug in but they're 1 injury and 1 kid in foul trouble and you're playing a kid who played JV quarters this season.
 
Stupid question from someone who hasn't covered a tournament draw before: Why don't the top seeds just all take the first-round byes? Like wouldn't that help avoid injury / fatigue?
 
mrorcadood said:
Stupid question from someone who hasn't covered a tournament draw before: Why don't the top seeds just all take the first-round byes? Like wouldn't that help avoid injury / fatigue?
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Moeller never takes a first round bye if they’re seeded #1 because they don’t want a long layoff (10 days typically between last regular season game and the second round) and they know the goal of most of the weaker teams is to simply win a tournament game. Nobody will take that spot playing them in the first round and it will almost always go to the team seeded last, who they can beat with their JV team. Then, the bye spot that would play in the second round is typically avoided as well, because again, teams prefer to play a game they can win, and they end up with somebody #25 or higher, who they can also beat with their JV team. This gives them a de facto bye to the sectional final and they can still get some game action in. Most other top teams will in fact take the bye because they don’t have Moeller’s depth and they want the rest / not risking losing or injury in a game they don’t need to play. Not taking the bye really only works for #1 though.

Fairfield, at #1 last year, did not take the bye and played #33 West Clermont and then #26 Winton Woods, which was a pretty easy two games. Elder, at #2, also did not take the bye and played #31 Aiken but then had to play #13 Middletown in the second game, which was obviously a much tougher game.
 
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Also, to be fair, I’m trying to find an example of where a top 5 seed decided not to take the bye and got beat in that first round game, and the last one I can find is St. X in 2004.
 
JBaller said:
Also, to be fair, I’m trying to find an example of where a top 5 seed decided not to take the bye and got beat in that first round game, and the last one I can find is St. X in 2004.
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I wasn't thinking along the lines of losing the game. I was more thinking about what if you suffer a bad injury in your first round game that you could have avoided by taking the bye. I get the JV idea though. (Although this year, I feel like only Colerain and Talawanda are bad enough to conceivably lose to a top team's JV squad.)
 
mrorcadood said:
I wasn't thinking along the lines of losing the game. I was more thinking about what if you suffer a bad injury in your first round game that you could have avoided by taking the bye. I get the JV idea though. (Although this year, I feel like only Colerain and Talawanda are bad enough to conceivably lose to a top team's JV squad.)
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The last example that I can find of a top 5 seed not making even the sectional final is 2005 and Lakota East, but that was back when they only seeded 12 teams and everyone else was random draw for their “seed” and East (who was #1) actually had to play a good Colerain team in their first game. Every other year, pretty much seems like there is a gap between the top teams and everyone else.
 
JBaller said:
Also, to be fair, I’m trying to find an example of where a top 5 seed decided not to take the bye and got beat in that first round game, and the last one I can find is St. X in 2004.
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I think in 2004 Colerain upset St. X. Sycamore, which finished in something like a 4-way tie for the GMC championship, then beat Colerain and won a couple more games after that to get to the district tournament. Then it got eliminated by Hamilton (the Billy Allen-led team).
 
Vet Observer said:
I think in 2004 Colerain upset St. X. Sycamore, which finished in something like a 4-way tie for the GMC championship, then beat Colerain and won a couple more games after that to get to the district tournament. Then it got eliminated by Hamilton (the Billy Allen-led team).
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Mostly right, but that Sycamore team was tied for 5th in the GMC and that was Hamilton’s state championship team (they also won the league outright) where Allen was a freshmen 6th man. Last GMC state champion. There were like 8 really good GMC teams that year and all 4 GCL-S teams were really good too.
 
Seems like Fairmont managed to secure their 6 seed by dropping their fifth in a row. However, they may not get the match up with Centerville they were trying for. After the beating Northmont took at the hands of Beavercreek tonight, I'm guessing they jump in with Centerville with the 5 seed. Unless...does Fairmont jump in with both of them?
 
All games have been played that are counting toward the seeding, but all the results haven't been updated yet. As of now, a lot of the seeding is known though:

1. Moeller
2. Elder
3. Winton Woods
4-5. Goshen or St. Xavier
6. Aiken
7. Sycamore
8. Western Hills
9. Middletown
10. Little Miami
11. Lakota West
12. Anderson
13. Hamilton
14. Princeton
15. Kings
16. Lakota East
17. Oak Hills
18. Loveland
19. Milford
20. Fairfield
21. LaSalle
22. Harrison
23. Northwest
24. Mason
25. Turpin
26. Western Brown
27. Ross
28. Withrow
29. West Clermont
30. Edgewood
31. Walnut Hills
32. Colerain
33. Talawanda
 
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JBaller said:
All games have been played that are counting toward the seeding, but all the results haven't been updated yet. As of now, a lot of the seeding is known though:

1. Moeller
2. Elder
3. Winton Woods
4-5. Goshen or St. Xavier
6-8. Western Hills, Sycamore, Aiken
9. Middletown
10. Little Miami
11. Lakota West
12. Hamilton
13. Anderson
14-15. Princeton or Lakota East
16-17. Kings or Oak Hills
18. Milford
19. Loveland
20. Fairfield
21-22. LaSalle or Harrison
23-24. Northwest or Mason
25. Turpin
26. Western Brown
27. Ross
28. Withrow
29-30. West Clermont or Edgewood
31. Walnut Hills
32. Colerain
33. Talawanda
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I'm going to go ahead and say it. A match between any team 2-25 could potentially go any way. I wouldn't be one to place any bets on any of those games.
 
Going to be some crazy first and second round games this year. Are the host sites the usuals? Fairfield, Lakota West, West Clermont, Princeton?
 
Elder BARELY beat Wyoming Tuesday and they struggled bad against Turpin

& Mason took Moeller to the wire Tuesday as well

are we really saying that they are head and shoulders above everybody? 🤨 I agree Moe is very good, no question about it but I personally don’t think Elder is that much better than the field
 
Ohiobasketball513 said:
Elder BARELY beat Wyoming Tuesday and they struggled bad against Turpin

& Mason took Moeller to the wire Tuesday as well

are we really saying that they are head and shoulders above everybody? 🤨 I agree Moe is very good, no question about it but I personally don’t think Elder is that much better than the field
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Elder has literally only lost to Moeller in local games. Every other team has some kind of “bad” loss. Wyoming is good btw and they were beating Turpinn by 20 after the 3rd quarter. Moeller and Elder will have very difficult games starting with the sectional final, but they are the only two teams that I think will cruise to that round. Sycamore, Winton Woods, and X could all have tough games before that.
 
JElder said:
Sleeper team with the right draw is Aiken. They have amazing guards and two good big men. I worry about their D, but they can score the ball.
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They did win the CMAC, but the CMAC has struggled big time against anyone local in non-league play. Literally, the league’s collective best non-conference win is either Trotwood or McNick. Arnold is very good though.
 
JBaller said:
Elder has literally only lost to Moeller in local games. Every other team has some kind of “bad” loss. Wyoming is good btw and they were beating Turpinn by 20 after the 3rd quarter. Moeller and Elder will have very difficult games starting with the sectional final, but they are the only two teams that I think will cruise to that round. Sycamore, Winton Woods, and X could all have tough games before that.
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I think Elder will likely get a decent GMC team in the sectional final (like a Mason or Hamilton), and it could be a scary proposition for them.

The GMC teams have been through the gauntlet, and yes, while Elder hasn't had a bad loss, they've had pretty smooth sailing with their schedule outside of the GCL.

But yes, I could also see the winning their sectional pretty easily as well.
 
Elderstatechamps2020 said:
I personally think Winton woods will go far they have the best player in the state and really good point guard
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I think the draw for the Cincinnati vs. Cincinnati matchup will all contain Winton Woods, St. X, Sycamore, and probably 2-3 more GMC teams. It should be a wide open district, which Winton Woods very well could win.
 
First bracket I've seen so far is Dayton 1 at Vandalia Butler. Centerville is the #1 and plays Piqua with Xenia having the bye. Other side of the bracket is Stebbins-Sidney and Fairmont-Monroe. So it is Fairmont for Centerville...
 
Cincy 1---is Elder, Princeton and West
Cincy 2-- is Oak Hills, Aiken, Sycamore vs Mason
Cincy 3-- Moe, Anderson, LM and Goshen
Cincy 4--Hamilton, Fairfield,St. X, Lakota East, LaSalle (tough sectional)
Cincy 5--is WWoods, Middletown, Kings
 
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