Separate The Schools

I

icemen10

New member
It's time to have a separate conference for the St xx's / University Schools

Any school that can recruit players should not be competing with teams that get players from their school district. Look at Dublin for an example, if they combined their three high schools into one team they would dominate high school hockey.
 
 
icemen10 said:
It's time to have a separate conference for the St xx's / University Schools

Any school that can recruit players should not be competing with teams that get players from their school district. Look at Dublin for an example, if they combined their three high schools into one team they would dominate high school hockey.
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I highly doubt that, and it makes no sense. A well built team will perform much better than a group of star players, as we see all the time. Eds, Moeller, X, US, Ignatius, St. Johns, and Gilmour are all private schools, and although they have the ability to choose from a wider group of players, they don't "recruit". Kids go to those schools because of a better education, and preparation for college and life afterwards.
 
thats the point.. 130 + teams, there's a bigger hockey following in NJ, and no, they honestly don't recruit. you're just not listening to what I'm saying..
 
icemen10 said:
It's time to have a separate conference for the St xx's / University Schools

Any school that can recruit players should not be competing with teams that get players from their school district. Look at Dublin for an example, if they combined their three high schools into one team they would dominate high school hockey.
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Separate hockey into a public division and private division? No sport in the OHSAA does that, why should hockey be the first?

Also, in regards to Dublin, you're talking about three large, separate high schools. The people of Dublin have chosen to have three high schools. If you want to combine the teams to create one ultra-competitive squad, you have three choices: a) revert to having one high school in Dublin, which would be 4000 students in size, b) drop out of the OHSAA and move to the club division where students from different schools play on teams together, or c) pick one of the three Dublin high schools to be the "hockey school" and make sure all of the best hockey players enroll there. The first two options are unrealistic. The third option is one that Parma City Schools, outside of Cleveland, employed a few years back. The district had three high schools, all three with hockey teams. Eventually Valley Forge High School dropped hockey altogether and Normandy High School became the school where all of the best hockey players enrolled to play and they were very competitive for awhile. Parma High School kept its team, but it was and has remained less competitive and in a lower division than Normandy.

Regardless of whatever Dublin decides to do, stop with the whining. Even if you guys combined your schools, you'd still have a hard time beating the best teams, even the best public schools, from the Cleveland and Toledo areas.
 
as a member of a private school i can honestly say that we do not recruit students...we draft them. and by the way nobody drafts students for hockey. at least not in the cincy area. if anything it's normally for football or basketball
 
Bennies - I didn't say that Dublin wanted to merge thier team, just as an example - if they could pull players just from a small town like Dublin the team would be the best in the State...That's the point - why should a team who pulls kids only from their school district compete with the St whatevers or the Prep schools.... It's like playing a House team vs a Travel or Select team...... but actually the teams like Coffman, Jerome can compete against the North Teams... Coffman played some of the top teams in Cleveland over the winter break beating Padua, who at the time was ranked 14, Tied St Eds, who was ranked #2 lost late to Univ School #1 - it was 2-2 until deep into the 3rd and lost to Walsh Jes #4, after the hometown refs called three back-to-back-to-penalties on Coffman and they were scored on with 5 on 3's
 
icemen10 said:
Bennies - I didn't say that Dublin wanted to merge thier team, just as an example - if they could pull players just from a small town like Dublin the team would be the best in the State...That's the point - why should a team who pulls kids only from their school district compete with the St whatevers or the Prep schools.... It's like playing a House team vs a Travel or Select team...... but actually the teams like Coffman, Jerome can compete against the North Teams... Coffman played some of the top teams in Cleveland over the winter break beating Padua, who at the time was ranked 14, Tied St Eds, who was ranked #2 lost late to Univ School #1 - it was 2-2 until deep into the 3rd and lost to Walsh Jes #4, after the hometown refs called three back-to-back-to-penalties on Coffman and they were scored on with 5 on 3's
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I understood your point, but if Dublin really wanted an ultracompetitive hockey team, they could build one. Nothing is stopping them but themselves.

Also, it's worth pointing out that the best teams in Northern Ohio, especially teams from the Red North Division in the GCHSHL, use the holiday tournaments as an opportunity to put their lines together and get the younger (JV) players more experience. Padua was one of the doormats of the Red North, so it's no shock that Coffman beat them. However University School, Walsh Jesuit, and St. Edward are legitimately four or five goals better than Coffman and would win by such a margin if the teams met in the state tournament.
 
Bennies'01 said:
However University School, Walsh Jesuit, and St. Edward are legitimately four or five goals better than Coffman and would win by such a margin if the teams met in the state tournament.
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Actually, Coffman did play US, WJ, and St. Edward at the St. Edward Eagles Classic. They lost 5-2 to US, 3-1 to WJ, and tied St. Edward 2-2.

http://coffman.dublinhockey.org/record.htm

You'll also note they beat Benedictine 7-3 and Parma Normandy 5-1, in addition to beating Padua 3-2.
 
FormerWildcat said:
Actually, Coffman did play US, WJ, and St. Edward at the St. Edward Eagles Classic. They lost 5-2 to US, 3-1 to WJ, and tied St. Edward 2-2.

http://coffman.dublinhockey.org/record.htm
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I know they played those teams. Those were the teams that were cited by the previous poster. My point was that those scores don't mean very much because the best teams in Cleveland and Toledo use those holiday tournaments to build their programs, playing a lot of their younger (read JV) players and seeing which lines work together. In my opinion, the only way to prove that Coffman (or any other Columbus team) is a real contender would be for them to beat a team from Cleveland or Toledo in the state tournament. To date it has yet to happen. I don't know how far Central and Southwest Ohio is from actually competing with the teams up north, but I'd say that this year was a disappointing step in the wrong direction.

FormerWildcat said:
You'll also note they beat Benedictine 7-3 and Parma Normandy 5-1, in addition to beating Padua 3-2.
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Yeah, Benedictine was pretty bad this year. We did so poorly that we earned ourselves a relegation to the White Division. :wallbang: Normandy, who was already in the White Division, had a rough season, too. Not sure why you mentioned them, but the reason I brought them up was because I felt that if Dublin, a district with three high schools, wanted to "consolidate" all of its hockey talent onto one team, that there was a model (the Parma schools) out there for it. The quality of the Dublin high schools' hockey programs passed that of the Parma high schools probably about five years ago. Though to be fair, a lot of hockey-playing high school age kids in Parma attend Padua, St. Ignatius, or St. Edward.
 
Bennies'01 said:
My point was that those scores don't mean very much because the best teams in Cleveland and Toledo use those holiday tournaments to build their programs, playing a lot of their younger (read JV) players and seeing which lines work together.
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I don't think I really buy that for that particular tournament. I don't think US, WJ, and St. Edward are just going to roll out their JVs for a tourney against the other top shelf programs. They all had to know they would likely face each other later in the season, and they would want to know how their teams stack up at that point.
 
FormerWildcat said:
I don't think I really buy that for that particular tournament. I don't think US, WJ, and St. Edward are just going to roll out their JVs for a tourney against the other top shelf programs. They all had to know they would likely face each other later in the season, and they would want to know how their teams stack up at that point.
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I think you're overestimating how serious these teams take the holiday tournaments, but really, it doesn't matter. What matters is that while the best teams from Southwest and Central Ohio look like they can compete with teams from the North in the holiday tournaments, when it counts, in the state tournament, these teams "mysteriously" become 4-5 goals inferior to the best in other parts of the state. There are a lot of reasons for this, I provided just one with which I'm most familiar.
 
Moeman10 said:
I highly doubt that, and it makes no sense. A well built team will perform much better than a group of star players, as we see all the time. Eds, Moeller, X, US, Ignatius, St. Johns, and Gilmour are all private schools, and although they have the ability to choose from a wider group of players, they don't "recruit". Kids go to those schools because of a better education, and preparation for college and life afterwards.
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Let's not be completely naive here. Some kids go for the education, but others go to a particular school to play a sport because they believe it will give them an opportunity to win and perhaps play at next level. It's not officially recruiting but the door is always wide open, especially for talented athletes.

As for the original comment to split the publics and privates...will not and should not happen.
 
Bennies'01 said:
I don't know how far Central and Southwest Ohio is from actually competing with the teams up north, but I'd say that this year was a disappointing step in the wrong direction.
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Centerville was not a representation of how the Best of the South/Columbus stack up. I know that I can't really say that because they were "district champs" but its the case.
 
Bennies'01 said:
I think you're overestimating how serious these teams take the holiday tournaments, but really, it doesn't matter. What matters is that while the best teams from Southwest and Central Ohio look like they can compete with teams from the North in the holiday tournaments, when it counts, in the state tournament, these teams "mysteriously" become 4-5 goals inferior to the best in other parts of the state. There are a lot of reasons for this, I provided just one with which I'm most familiar.
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If this is correct, then in the SJJ MLK Tournament, how come Ray Morris and the other best SJJ played most of the game when they were playing Moeller? Or was Ray Morris just another JV scrub and they moved him up to varsity then and became a player of the year candidate out of nowhere? I hope you sensed my sarcasm.
 
See my post on the "State" thread. Even if someone other than Centerville could have represented the district a little better in the state semifinals, the fact remains that the Elks were one of the best teams in that part of the state all season. Maybe Moeller, Coffman, or Talawanda would have given St. Johns a tougher game. But I still don't think any of those teams would have come within 4-5 goals of winning.
 
i believe that moeller could have won. of course led by eric smith and nate han, with drew badass rosselot taking any real threat out of the game with his massive physical ability to deliver a bonecrushing hit to any who dare oppose him.
 
Bennies'01 said:
See my post on the "State" thread. Even if someone other than Centerville could have represented the district a little better in the state semifinals, the fact remains that the Elks were one of the best teams in that part of the state all season. Maybe Moeller, Coffman, or Talawanda would have given St. Johns a tougher game. But I still don't think any of those teams would have come within 4-5 goals of winning.
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Moeller lost a game 7-4 to SJJ earlier in the year, and at one point it was 5-4 with only a few minutes remaining.. so im not sure that 4-5 goals of winning comment made much sense
 
Moeman10 said:
so im not sure that 4-5 goals of winning comment made much sense
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Sure it did. One of the best teams in Southwest Ohio got smoked, a team that beat Moeller two out of the three times that they met. :shrug: Maybe Moeller regressed from the time that they "almost" beat St. John's.
 
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