Richmond Heights wants the best competition… but won’t opt up?

NEWS RELEASE – Ohio High School Athletic Association
Executive Director Doug Ute

www.OHSAA.org | twitter.com/OHSAASports | facebook.com/OHSAAsports | instagam.com/ohsaasports

For Immediate Release – June 12, 2024
Contact – Tim Stried, Director of Media Relations, tstried@ohsaa.org

OHSAA Approves 14 Fall and Winter Sports Requests from 11 Schools to Move up Division I
Approvals are sport-specific for the 2024-25 school year; deadline for wrestling requests is June 25; deadline for spring sports requests is Sept. 13

COLUMBUS, Ohio – The Ohio High School Athletic Association Board of Directors has approved 14 requests from 11 schools to move up to Division I in specific fall and winter sports for the 2024-25 school year. The requests were made possible by the passage of Referendum Item 1B that OHSAA member schools passed earlier this spring, which permits schools to request to move up to Division I on a sport-by-sport basis for one school year.

The movement results in a total of 24 adjustments in divisional placements across seven fall and winter sports, which includes several Division I schools moving down to Division II in specific sports.

No requests were denied. Schools have until June 25 to request to move up to Division I in wrestling, as those preliminary divisional breakdowns were just approved on June 9 by the OHSAA Board of Directors and are posted at: https://www.ohsaa.org/sports/wrestling

Preliminary spring sport divisional assignments will be presented to the Board of Directors in August and schools will have until September 13 to request to move up to Division I in 2025 spring sports.

The referendum issue results were announced on May 16 and schools had until June 3 to request to move up to Division I. The OHSAA Board of Directors reviewed and approved the list during meetings this past weekend in Akron at the baseball state tournament that wrapped up the 2024-25 school year.

WINTER SPORTS
Boys Basketball
Cincinnati Elder moves to D1
Thomas Worthington moves to D2
Regional Tournament Representation:
No Change to D1
D2: Central – 5; Northwest – 2; Northeast – 7; Southwest – 2

Girls Basketball:
Cincinnati Seton moves to D1
Cincinnati Mount Notre Dame moves to D1
Rocky River Magnificat moves to D1
Cleveland St. Joseph Academy moves to D1
Euclid moves to D2
Grove City Central Crossing moves to D2
Westerville North moves to D2
Cleveland John Marshall moves to D2

 

[bluengold]

Saw where RH lost to Philadelphia Imhotep Charter 77-49 last night in the Philly Live event.
Haven't watched the game yet on Ballertv to see who was in the rotation (and who was not) as the margin was pretty big

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RH beat Wilmington DE Salesianum 66-61 this morning

RH lost to Camden NJ 82-54 this Sat afternoon

 

[Spartacus1987]

Saw where RH lost to Philadelphia Imhotep Charter 77-49 last night in the Philly Live event.
Haven't watched the game yet on Ballertv to see who was in the rotation (and who was not) as the margin was pretty big

BallerTV - Live Stream Youth Sports

Watch live video, highlights and replays for the nation's top youth sports.

www.ballertv.com

RH beat Wilmington DE Salesianum 66-61 this morning

RH lost to Camden NJ 82-54 this Sat afternoon

Supposed best team in Ohio getting pounded this bad by out of state teams is just a bad look.

 

[cdub4]

158 public schools out of how many total?
How many public schools do not have open enrollment?

158 of them but yet many across the entire state are complaining about only 1.

All I'm saying is most teams only 15 or less kids playing varsity so if a school has a CB number of 10 or more, it's a lot to not be living inside the school district.

Majority of public schools are open enrollment. 10 isn't that high a number at all especially for a D1 public.

 

[cdub4]

Supposed best team in Ohio getting pounded this bad by out of state teams is just a bad look.

I thought they were scared of competition though. Weird.

 

[Talk some sense]

There are 158 publics with a boys basketball CB of at least 10. That really screams of possible abuse.

Where can I find the CB numbers for individual schools? Is there a list? Thanks.

 

[Spartacus1987]

I thought they were scared of competition though. Weird.

Don’t know, their out of state schedule suggests otherwise. You don’t see any other team in Ohio playing these teams. They also beat Division 1s champion last season. I just worry that they should be doing much better on a national scale

 

[bluengold]

RH was 2-2 in last weekend's Midwest Live event in Sandusky
They beat Wayne Memorial MI 56-52 and Detroit University Prep 74-54
They lost to East Kentwood 44-57 and Indianapolis Cathedral 45-59

 

[Spartacus1987]

RH was 2-2 in last weekend's Midwest Live event in Sandusky
They beat Wayne Memorial MI 56-52 and Detroit University Prep 74-54
They lost to East Kentwood 44-57 and Indianapolis Cathedral 45-59

Not too good there

 

[SupremeNothing]

All about “challenges” but instead of competing against the best in Ohio they’d rather square off with Dalton at regionals

 

[spirit454]

Majority of public schools are open enrollment. 10 isn't that high a number at all especially for a D1 public.

It is if that indicates you have 10 kids playing varsity that do not live inside the district.

 

[cdub4]

It is if that indicates you have 10 kids playing varsity that do not live inside the district.

It isn't if some of the kids are basketball Tier 2s. Then you don't have 10 kids. You then a combination of tier 1s and tier 2s that = 10. There is a mathematical formula. Could be 4 kids.

St Xavier has a CB number of 197. St Ignatius is 180. Obviously these schools have Tier 2s because common sense should tell you Xavier and Ignatius dont have 197 and 180 basketball players, right?

So no, a CB number of 10 isn't ridiculously high for a D1 public IMO. It could be 4 kids in the program.

 

[cdub4]

Richmond Heights boys basketball: 4-star guard Dorian Jones commits to Ohio State

Dorian Jones has been turning heads and receiving collegiate offers since his first game for Richmond Heights in the 2021-22 season. After receiving over 25 offers, Jones made his college commitmen…

www.news-herald.com

Also congratulations to Dorian Jones on his commitment to Ohio State. Winters and Barber have D1 offers also. In the article it mentions that Jones and Winters have been friends since childhood, they both have coaches in the family. One of the players grandmother is a coach.

If I am not mistaken Winters' father is the Brush girls basketball varsity HC. Someone more knowledgeable about the program can correct me. Makes sense why RH plays basketball so well. They are impressive to watch in person. Seen them several times.

 

[NEOfan]

Richmond Heights boys basketball: 4-star guard Dorian Jones commits to Ohio State

Dorian Jones has been turning heads and receiving collegiate offers since his first game for Richmond Heights in the 2021-22 season. After receiving over 25 offers, Jones made his college commitmen…

www.news-herald.com

Also congratulations to Dorian Jones on his commitment to Ohio State. Winters and Barber have D1 offers also. In the article it mentions that Jones and Winters have been friends since childhood, they both have coaches in the family. One of the players grandmother is a coach.

If I am not mistaken Winters' father is the Brush girls basketball varsity HC. Someone more knowledgeable about the program can correct me. Makes sense why RH plays basketball so well. They are impressive to watch in person. Seen them several times.

Yep Winters is the girls coach at Brush and used to be the girls head coach at Richmond too

 

[spirit454]

It isn't if some of the kids are basketball Tier 2s. Then you don't have 10 kids. You then a combination of tier 1s and tier 2s that = 10. There is a mathematical formula. Could be 4 kids.

St Xavier has a CB number of 197. St Ignatius is 180. Obviously these schools have Tier 2s because common sense should tell you Xavier and Ignatius dont have 197 and 180 basketball players, right?

So no, a CB number of 10 isn't ridiculously high for a D1 public IMO. It could be 4 kids in the program.

I was using the best scenario if they had players that had been there for many many years. If they have tier 2 players it means they are coming in for basketball only so that would be even less respectable.

RH is a public school. Using a very large private school in comparison is just silly. Private schools use a different formula and have different supply options.

4 out of 10-15 kids that played varsity that do not live inside the district boundaries and have enrolled into the school after they started 7th grade. That's ridiculous to me.

 

[cdub4]

I was using the best scenario if they had players that had been there for many many years. If they have tier 2 players it means they are coming in for basketball only so that would be even less respectable.

RH is a public school. Using a very large private school in comparison is just silly. Private schools use a different formula and have different supply options.

4 out of 10-15 kids that played varsity that do not live inside the district boundaries and have enrolled into the school after they started 7th grade. That's ridiculous to me.

I used a large private school to explain to you the formula. It seemed to me you didn't understand the formula assuming a CB of 10 meant 10 players.

Private school use the same formula as public schools. You are mistaken. There are not 2 formulas.

We disagree on if 10 is a high CB number for a public school. To me that can be only 4 kids who got varsity minutes for a whole season out of a whole roster didn't live there in 7th grade. Big deal. People relocate all the time. Also open enrollment is a thing people use.

 

[spirit454]

I used a large private school to explain to you the formula. It seemed to me you didn't understand the formula assuming a CB of 10 meant 10 players.

Private school use the same formula as public schools. You are mistaken. There are not 2 formulas.

We disagree on if 10 is a high CB number for a public school. To me that can be only 4 kids who got varsity minutes for a whole season out of a whole roster didn't live there in 7th grade. Big deal. People relocate all the time. Also open enrollment is a thing people use.

Very familiar, use it often. Seeing a CB of 10 and spreading it to 10 players is the best case scenario of a school not being accused of cheating. It would mean a school has 10 varsity players NOT living inside the district but has at least attended the same school since before 7th grade.

Not true. Privates have to ask different questions than publics to determine tiers. Even multiple high school district ask different questions than single high school districts to determine an athletes tier location.

I wasn't looking for you to agree. You can have any opinion you want. Relocation could mean they move which to me means moving into the district. Then the CB is zero. If you have 4 players out of say 10 that see minutes and those 4 did not attend JH at the public school, it could be view by some as recruiting/assembling a team. I will add that I used the number 10 (double digits) as a very low starting point of concern. Realistically in my eyes I would go closer to a CB number of 18 or more for a public school. As I said already, open enrollment is a good option and if parents truly do it for the education it normally happens before a kid hits the 7th grade. Not after they have begun OHSAA sports.

 

[cdub4]

Very familiar, use it often. Seeing a CB of 10 and spreading it to 10 players is the best case scenario of a school not being accused of cheating. It would mean a school has 10 varsity players NOT living inside the district but has at least attended the same school since before 7th grade.

Not true. Privates have to ask different questions than publics to determine tiers. Even multiple high school district ask different questions than single high school districts to determine an athletes tier location.

I wasn't looking for you to agree. You can have any opinion you want. Relocation could mean they move which to me means moving into the district. Then the CB is zero. If you have 4 players out of say 10 that see minutes and those 4 did not attend JH at the public school, it could be view by some as recruiting/assembling a team. I will add that I used the number 10 (double digits) as a very low starting point of concern. Realistically in my eyes I would go closer to a CB number of 18 or more for a public school. As I said already, open enrollment is a good option and if parents truly do it for the education it normally happens before a kid hits the 7th grade. Not after they have begun OHSAA sports.

I took a glance at the D1 basketball CB numbers. 10 is definitely higher than most D1 schools, but I do see schools like Newark, Stow, Reynoldsburg, and other publics with 10 or more. They have decent to excellent basketball teams also. North Royalton, WGH and some others across the state. I would never say basketball isn't a reason players might migrate to RH, just like other programs across the state.

 

[spirit454]

I took a glance at the D1 basketball CB numbers. 10 is definitely higher than most D1 schools, but I do see schools like Newark, Stow, Reynoldsburg, and other publics with 10 or more. They have decent to excellent basketball teams also. North Royalton, WGH and some others across the state. I would never say basketball isn't a reason players might migrate to RH, just like other programs across the state.

Makes it easier to see when it is one of the smaller schools in the state.

 

[acb1234]

Does anyone know how the tournaments are going to be structures with roughly 64 in each division?

 

[Cedar_Point]

Does anyone know how the tournaments are going to be structures with roughly 64 in each division?

Your math is way off

It was explained in a different thread

 

[acb1234]

Your math is way off

It was explained in a different thread

Apologies for my lack on insight

If you would be so kind, would you be able to explain it for morons like me?

Appreciate the help!

 

[Forepar]

Apologies for my lack on insight

If you would be so kind, would you be able to explain it for morons like me?

Appreciate the help!

Short Answer: Only D1 and D2 will have 64 teams each. Assignments to D3 through D7 will be split as evenly as possible, with the estimate being that there will be 134 boys BB teams in each of those 5 smaller-school divisions.

Long Answer: Because of 7 State Final Games, only the Finals are being played at Dayton. What happens with the location of the State Semis is unclear - sites TBD last I looked. Based on the OHSAA Calendar and discussions elsewhere, State Semis will be played as "stand alone" games and not part of the Regionals. Under those assumptions, most D1 and D2 teams will start tournament play at what has been known in the past as the District Semis. However, if teams are assigned to their historical Districts as in the past, then each District's path to a regional berth will likely vary from District to District. OHSAA has only indicated that for Boys BB, Division I Regional Qualifiers by District are Central 6, Northeast 4, Northwest 1, Southwest 5. Division II Regional Qualifiers by District: Central 4, Northeast 7, Northwest 2, Southwest 3. The assigned number of regional qualifiers, however, does not account for the PRECISE number of teams assigned to each of those Districts. Some of us initially presumed that all 64 teams would face the same road with an equal number of teams in each district pod. In other words, 6 games of survive and advance. However, it appears that traditional District affiliations will remain - in which case the number of games a team will face to win their District (and win it all) will likely vary (as it has before the recent change). Unless all Districts have the exact number of teams (e.g. Central District with 6 regional spots in D1 would need to have precisely 24 teams to achieve perfect balance), some teams will face a 3-game road at the District level, while in another District a team may face only a 1-game road. Other than the OHSAA Basketball Calendar for 2024-25 suggesting the elimination of "Sectionals" week for D1-D2, this imbalance has not been addressed "officially" (yet). And that same imbalance exists with prior format, it just did not seem as dramatic when the difference in number of games to win a district ranged from 3 to 5, not 1 to 3.

D3-D7, with 134 teams (for now) in each division results in most teams starting tournament play at what was previously known as the Sectional Final level. The OHSAA Basketball Calendar still references Sectional dates for D3-D7. Again, with the OHSAA only assigning Regional spots by District, and assuming that District assignments remain "traditional" as before, then Sectionals will consist of only 1 game for most teams and 2 games for a smaller number of teams, dependent upon how many teams are in a particular District.

 

[Message Bad Boards]

Short Answer: Only D1 and D2 will have 64 teams each. Assignments to D3 through D7 will be split as evenly as possible, with the estimate being that there will be 134 boys BB teams in each of those 5 smaller-school divisions.

Long Answer: Because of 7 State Final Games, only the Finals are being played at Dayton. What happens with the location of the State Semis is unclear - sites TBD last I looked. Based on the OHSAA Calendar and discussions elsewhere, State Semis will be played as "stand alone" games and not part of the Regionals. Under those assumptions, most D1 and D2 teams will start tournament play at what has been known in the past as the District Semis. However, if teams are assigned to their historical Districts as in the past, then each District's path to a regional berth will likely vary from District to District. OHSAA has only indicated that for Boys BB, Division I Regional Qualifiers by District are Central 6, Northeast 4, Northwest 1, Southwest 5. Division II Regional Qualifiers by District: Central 4, Northeast 7, Northwest 2, Southwest 3. The assigned number of regional qualifiers, however, does not account for the PRECISE number of teams assigned to each of those Districts. Some of us initially presumed that all 64 teams would face the same road with an equal number of teams in each district pod. In other words, 6 games of survive and advance. However, it appears that traditional District affiliations will remain - in which case the number of games a team will face to win their District (and thus win it all) will likely vary (as it has before the recent change). Unless all Districts have the exact number of teams (e.g. Central District with 6 regional spots in D1 would need to have precisely 24 teams to achieve perfect balance), some teams will face a 3-game road at the District level, while in another District a team may face only a 1-game road. Other than the OHSAA Basketball Calendar for 2024-25 suggesting the elimination of "Sectionals" week for D1-D2, this imbalance has not been addressed "officially" (yet). And that same imbalance exists with prior format, it just did not seem as dramatic when the difference in number of games to win a district ranged from 3 to 5, not 1 to 3.

D3-D7, with 134 teams (for now) in each division results in most teams starting tournament play at what was previously known as the Sectional Final level. The OHSAA Basketball Calendar still references Sectional dates for D3-D7. Again, with the OHSAA only assigning Regional spots by District, and assuming that District assignments remain "traditional" as before, then Sectionals will consist of only 1 game for most teams and 2 games for a smaller number of teams, dependent upon how many teams are in a particular District.

Well written with how the teams are broken up, and the information is correct. Everyone enjoys winning so Richmond Heights is just doing what most schools would do.

 

[Forepar]

Well written with how the teams are broken up, and the information is correct. Everyone enjoys winning so Richmond Heights is just doing what most schools would do.

Thanks, I think I am on top of this somewhat moving target, but I don't think District alignment has been finalized (whether changed or left alone). If the Districts come out with perfect number of teams to match regional assignments, using traditional assignments to Districts, that will be happenstance if not a Christmas Miracle.

As for Richmond Heights, I haven't expressed much of an opinion. If RH had the option to play up a division or two (which option is not available), then I could see some of the criticism of RH. But to complain because a D-4 or D-5 school didn't opt up to D-1 seems disingenuous to me. RH plays a rigorous regular season schedule; they play the tournament as assigned. No complaint as to that choice.

If the issue is with how RH's roster is assembled, and that because of how they are assembled that RH should have chosen D-1, then just change the CB/transfer rules. I am not advocating for a change in those rules; the CB numbers are what they are.

I don't ever see ANY D-4 or lower school opting for D-1.
Is the one-in-a-million D-6 school with immense but once-in-a-lifetime homegrown talent supposed to opt for D-1 during the one or two years that school has its only chance to put a state championship or two on the mantle?
I know that doesn't exactly describe RH, but the complainers might want to look at it from a different perspective:

Was it tough for outside fans of a team like Russia (which had a really nice team) to feel like Russia had no chance against RH in the State Semis? Yes.
But Russia's team and its long-time fans had to be licking their chops at the chance. I've yet to see a Russia poster complain - it seems they were good with battling RH on their own terms, and the State Semi final score was 65-52, not some dastardly blowout by 50 points. They competed - and hard.

On the other hand, was it tough for a team like Fisher Catholic to surprisingly make the regionals for the first time in what seems like forever, only to get annihilated by Russia in the Regional by the score of 71-20? Yes, that was painfully hard to watch. But there are no complaints from FC or its followers about Russia's strong team or the margin of victory. FC had a great run - but they were not good enough or did not play well enough (a large dose of both to be honest) to compete with Russia in 2024. Get better, play better!

All teams playing in the tournament have a great experience. Yes, it's even more fun to make a run...or win it all. But many/most of the teams in the state that lost their first game (that would be close to half of them btw), got beat but yet still had the great experience of feeling the tournament jitters, of hoping for the upset, of playing in what might be their last HS game. Some years there is a team like RH that win the trophy; some years it's a team like Russia that wins it all. But every team that wins a District or Regional is celebrating - even the RHs of the world. The hand-wringing over which team plays in which division is overdone from my POV.

 

[smurfyeah19]

Teams in Div 5 this coming season when tournament starts should boycott and not play them ,, just forfeit there games against them,so they can't play a tournament game and just hand the state trophy at the end

To be fair, it's the same thing with Marion Local in D7 football. They took down Wapak last year and brutally beat down everyone in postseason. I don't think it's a stretch to say they could have made the final four in D3 last season.

 

[serpico]

To be fair, it's the same thing with Marion Local in D7 football. They took down Wapak last year and brutally beat down everyone in postseason. I don't think it's a stretch to say they could have made the final four in D3 last season.

Do you know of any kids who moved to or transferred into ML to ‘showcase their skill set’ against ‘elite competition’? No, it’s not the same thing.

And Minster provided ML a stiff test in the playoffs, as they were within 7 points until late. That was by no means a brutal beatdown.

 

[NEOfan]

Thanks, I think I am on top of this somewhat moving target, but I don't think District alignment has been finalized (whether changed or left alone). If the Districts come out with perfect number of teams to match regional assignments, using traditional assignments to Districts, that will be happenstance if not a Christmas Miracle.

As for Richmond Heights, I haven't expressed much of an opinion. If RH had the option to play up a division or two (which option is not available), then I could see some of the criticism of RH. But to complain because a D-4 or D-5 school didn't opt up to D-1 seems disingenuous to me. RH plays a rigorous regular season schedule; they play the tournament as assigned. No complaint as to that choice.

If the issue is with how RH's roster is assembled, and that because of how they are assembled that RH should have chosen D-1, then just change the CB/transfer rules. I am not advocating for a change in those rules; the CB numbers are what they are.

I don't ever see ANY D-4 or lower school opting for D-1.
Is the one-in-a-million D-6 school with immense but once-in-a-lifetime homegrown talent supposed to opt for D-1 during the one or two years that school has its only chance to put a state championship or two on the mantle?
I know that doesn't exactly describe RH, but the complainers might want to look at it from a different perspective:

Was it tough for outside fans of a team like Russia (which had a really nice team) to feel like Russia had no chance against RH in the State Semis? Yes.
But Russia's team and its long-time fans had to be licking their chops at the chance. I've yet to see a Russia poster complain - it seems they were good with battling RH on their own terms, and the State Semi final score was 65-52, not some dastardly blowout by 50 points. They competed - and hard.

On the other hand, was it tough for a team like Fisher Catholic to surprisingly make the regionals for the first time in what seems like forever, only to get annihilated by Russia in the Regional by the score of 71-20. Yes, that was painfully hard to watch. But there are no complaints from FC or its followers about Russia's strong team or the margin of victory. FC had a great run - but they were not good enough or did not play well enough (a large dose of both to be honest) to compete with Russia in 2024. Get better, play better!

All teams playing in the tournament have a great experience. Yes, it's even more fun to make a run...or win it all. But many/most of the teams in the state that lost their first game (that would be close to half of them btw), got beat but yet still had the great experience of feeling the tournament jitters, of hoping for the upset, of playing in what might be their last HS game. Some years there is a team like RH that win the trophy; some years it's a team like Russia that wins it all. But every team that wins a District or Regional is celebrating - even the RHs of the world. The hand-wringing over which team plays in which division is overdone from my POV.

Great post

 

[Zezzo!]

Not too good there

Not too bad either