OHSAA State Championship Information
- Thread starter SRI
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CincyIllinifan
Active member
Yeah, Coach Rapp deserves all the accolades he can get. He’ll be missed.
The last 4 years, his teams finished 1st, 1st, 2nd, and 1st.
Has anyone LOST a district title but won a State XC Championship?
I know Centerville girls used to run a JV squad at districts and then would win the state meet with their varsity…although I believe they put an end to that practice after the time they had a good chance of winning state and the JV didn’t qualify from the district meet. I’m sure other teams have lost districts and won state before, it’s not uncommon to rest runners while fielding a team that’s still strong enough to qualify.
JAVMAN83
Well-known member
Andy Wolf vs. Steve Spencer - Clash of Titans
BoomerSooner
Well-known member
An interesting tidbit here, not trying to sunshine pump entirely on one school, but with Tippecanoe having bumped above the D1 line mostly over the last decade-ish, having two individual champions (Sam Wharton, 2012) and now Landon Kimmel, both setting course records in the process is a pretty impressive feat, especially taking it over the field of runners from schools double/triple/etc. Tipp's size.
After a full track season off last spring, it'll be interesting to see where Kimmel goes from here and if he can follow in Wharton's footsteps (like winning NXN nationals in 2012, albeit a super weird race winning in 17:06 haha)
After a full track season off last spring, it'll be interesting to see where Kimmel goes from here and if he can follow in Wharton's footsteps (like winning NXN nationals in 2012, albeit a super weird race winning in 17:06 haha)
Supertramp
Active member
Tipp is an underapprecaited program. Barely D1 on the boys side when they are. Still find a way to make it to state some years. Would be one of the best D2 programs in the state if they were consistently D2.
Runningfast
Active member
What a wonderfully fantastic competition at the state meet yesterday. The athletes were amazing all day long.
Why is the state meet locked down like Fort Knox? All year long, athletes run through throngs of screaming fans (including at district and regional meets) with great success - screaming fans lining the course and chasing the athletes around the loops are what makes cross country cross country. In the biggest meet of the year, the athletes are cordoned off from humanity with what feels like miles of tall fencing. Heck, this year, the fencing even extended about 10 feet into the pond on the bus lot side of the course lest the Navy Seals attempt to infiltrate the course without paying their 15 bucks. Why can't snow fencing be used to line the course at a reasonable distance, allowing for a more enjoyable experience for the athletes and the fans? This works at virtually every meet all season long, and at many state meets across the country (look at pictures from Illinois state meet at detweiller park). It seems a shame that what should be the grandest stage of the season for the athletes is the most sterile environment.
Because there are a few (many), who would take advantage of it being “open” and would not only get through without paying the $15, but could possibly interfere with the competition. I have been to the boardman regional for years and the officials are sticklers for staying off the course but most years there are some (parents, fans, dogs) that cause kids to slow down because they are crossing the running path. 90% of the time it is the “back of the packers” and #6/7 runners who do not contribute to the scoring or results but it happens. It has happened (a couple times) to kids on my team at both the Districts and Regional meets...and many invitationals. Mostly on courses where kids are coming from both ways on the same or nearby running lanes or loops....like the State meet does I don't think not having folks out on the course has hampered the runners at any State meet. Snow fence is easily pushed down or jumped, and always has been by over zealous fans, team mates or even coaches so that has forced meet management to go bigger. This year the fencing was closer to the running in some spots but due to several who "sneeked in" over by the pond/start last year, the fencing needed extended. As you stated: "What a wonderfully fantastic competition at the state meet yesterday. The athletes were amazing all day long." It is about all those kids.... Having some of those kids having their friend or parents closer or on the course may make it a better experience for some, but could make it very frustrating for any who had to break stride to avoid someone's grandpa who was not looking the right way..... NOTE. It could happen with coaches and/or officials getting in the in the road the way it is now, but more people increase the chances.
SteepleDragon953
New member
That would be a valid argument if it happened on a regular or even semi-regular basis but (absent your anecdotal experiences at Boardman and other undisclosed meets that you admit only involve "some" people and only happened "a couple times") it does not.
The NCAA Conference Meets, Regionals, and National Championships are the perfect example of what the OHSAA State Championship XC Meet could be. Every year they take place on courses that are lined with fans, teammates, and coaches and in none of those meets are people breaking down fencing or interfering with runners. Instead they are creating an atmosphere that only adds to the athletes' experience and helps to create the championship environment that brings about great performances and exciting races every year.
Ohio has the exact opposite of that. The state XC meet is the most sanitized and low energy meet of the season to the point that if it was not a state championship and instead was just a regular season invitational, I don't think anybody would come (you may point to the pre-season meet as evidence to the contrary, but I will counter that nobody would go to that meet either if it were not the only opportunity to preview the state course). The average spectator cannot even see the start of the race (and can barely hear the gun it is so far away) nor can they get anywhere near 90% of the course to have any chance of creating the type of atmosphere and championship environment that a meet of this caliber deserves. In fact, almost the entire second mile is basically run in a vacuum with nobody but coaches, the athletes, and officials (oh so many officials) anywhere close to the race. And given the choice almost every athlete will tell you that they would rather compete in front of crowds and screaming fans instead of in silence (just ask the 2020 MLB or NBA players or the Tokyo Olympians).
None of this is to take away from the kids themselves who every year turn in great performances despite the short comings of the state course and venue; but they deserve so much more than what they get. And if the OHSAA was more concerned with athlete experience and putting on a premier event than they were with collecting their $15 per person then they could give it to them. We have great alternative venues throughout the state with Cedarville (to me) being the most obvious solution. It regularly hosts big time meets (All-Ohio Collegiate Championships, NCAA Conference and Regional Championships, High School Invitationals, and High School District Meets) with no issues of fan interference, breaking down fences, etc. It is also a "fair" course (not a track on grass and not the hills that you find in NEO) that is somewhat centrally located with food and lodging available in nearby Springfield, Xenia, or Dayton. Unfortunately, based on my 20+ year experience with the OHSAA as an athlete, coach, and fan, I am not holding my breath for any changes or improvements anytime soon (if ever).
Supertramp
Active member
Agreed. I would love to see the fences moved up much closer to the course. It’s so empty and quiet for most of the course.
At NCAAs, they run a lead gator, and then two gators on the side to prevent any spectators being on the course. It’s electric.
I would love to see the fencing closer namely around the halfway point and also at the 1000m in/1400m to go areas. So much of that course has no spectators.
fanofrunning
Member
Wharton's NXN race in 2012 was indeed impressive, considering the course was better suited for swimming than running. So much mud. And then the following week he ran at Foot Locker Nationals along with Nick Elswick and Sam Prakel (if memory serves correctly) and finished in sixth place. That particular race was won by somebody named Ed Cheserek.
Equally impressive is Lake HS having both a boys champ and a girls champ over the past few years. Nathan Moore won in 2020 and Daniela Scheffler won this year. Lake is larger than Tipp but is still not that big with an enrollment of about 400 of both boys & girls.
Wharton was also a good swimmer. Perhaps that ability helped him that day.
Runningfast
Active member
We'll have to agree to disagree, I suppose. I see pictures on Milesplit of numerous state meets around the country that are successfully executed every year with fans much more involved in the race experience. In my 20+ years of coaching and 10 years as a JH/HS/College athlete, I've attended several hundred meets in which fans were able to line the course with virtually no issues - I've seen a few close calls over the years, but nothing that fundamentally changed the race experience for any kid for more than a split second or affected the individual/team scoring in any real way. NCAA XC manages to pull it off every single year. World XC makes it happen. Like every other sport, fans enhance the competition. A well laid out and well-marshalled course can maintain the integrity of the competition. Those fences are about the $15. Period. And I get that there has to be an efficient way to charge admission to recoup cost. But I'm sure there are workable solutions there.
BoomerSooner
Well-known member
Right, it's always nice to see the "smaller" schools stepping up when the divisions are set up like this. Not that I'm advocating for what the OHSAA has in football or volleyball these days with 7 divisions, but with only doing 3 for sports like XC, you inevitably have some major disparity in the top division.
Mason (for the purposes of division alignment for this year) has 1,255 girls and 1,355 boys, whereas there are a bunch of schools in the same division as them with barely over 300 for each. Not taking anything away from the schools like Mason that are large, as success is success, but when those smaller schools compete it's really cool to see.
Obviously individual sport champions are a product of individual talent moreso and not as much overall school size too, but either way it's just interesting to look at.