OHSAA Girls Wrestling: Welcome to the Schott

HDW04 said:
If you have a son who has wrestled since Kindergarten tears would surely have to be measured in cups or pints!

I'm not a fan of this, but it is what it is. We can discuss pros and cons here thats what the board is for. Its been pretty respectful to this point. My biggest gripe is time...make the tournament longer (or even if you dont make it longer) then go back to Thurs-Sat. We are 2 hours from Columbus, I'd much rather enjoy finals, enjoy the awards, have a couple beers afterwards, and stay in a hotel to head back Sunday morning, and be ready to get the work (parents) and school (son) weeks started regularly on a Monday morning.
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I think you would need to go talk to OSU or not have it at the Schott then. I don't think it will ever go back to Thur-Sat unless the venue changes to somewhere that OSU doesn't control.
 
Can Yappi create a GIRLS WRESTLING forum since this is a “done deal”?
That way, when we’re here talking about boys wrestling, we can tell the girls wrestling crowd to GET OFF OUR LAWN!!!
They will need a place to talk about not having enough officials, stalling calls, how they had a first-year wrestler place at state, low numbers, no female coaches, can’t find good seats for the state tournament, how their hair looks, singlets or 2-piece, need their own wrestling room, just staying in shape for track or soccer, etc.
Come on Yappi… do it.
 
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Not sure if this is the correct thread for this info, but I noticed it's already three pages about girls/women's wrestling.(y)

??Women's WTT Seeds

50 kg
1. Erin Golston New York Athletic Club
2. Alyssa Lampe Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
3. Sage Mortimer King/TMWC
4. Nyla Valencia TMWC
5. Emily Shilson Twin Cities RTC/TMWC
6. Nina Pham Texas Wrestling Club
7. Caitlyn Walker New York City RTC
8. Charlotte Fowler River Valley Wrestling Club
9. Arelys Valles Grand View Wrestling Club
10. Danielle Garcia Team Tornado Wrestling Club
11. Mariah Anderson Air Force Regional Training Center
12. Sydney Petzinger Cardinal Wrestling Club
13. Natalie Reyna-Rodriguez McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club

53 kg
1. Felicity Taylor McKendree Bearcat WC/TMWC
2. Ronna Heaton Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
3. Areana Villaescusa Army (WCAP)
4. Dominique Parrish Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
5. Alisha Howk Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
6. Estrella Dorado Marin Army (WCAP)
7. Haley Franich Air Force Regional Training Center

55 kg
1. Jacarra Winchester USOPTC/TMWC
2. Marissa Gallegos Colorado Mesa WC/TMWC
3. Lauren Mason Brunson UVRTC
4. Torieonna Buchanan Red Cobra Wrestling Academy
5. Victoria Smith Grand View Wrestling Club

57 kg
1. Adriana Dorado Marin Army (WCAP)
2. Cameron Guerin McKendree Bearcat WC/TMWC
3. Alexandra Hedrick USOPTC/TMWC
4. Amanda Martinez Cardinal WC/TMWC
5. Ngao Shoua Whitethorn Victory School of Wrestling
6. Tateum Park Twin Cities Regional Training Center
7. Elvie Villa McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
8. Genesis Ramirez All Navy Wrestling

59 kg
1. Nanea Estrella Titan Mercury Wrestling Club
2. Abigail Nette Army (WCAP)
3. Michaela Beck Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
4. Lexie Basham Spartan Mat Club
5. Niya Teresita Gaines Cardinal Wrestling Club
6. Claire DiCugno Colorado Mesa Wrestling Club
7. Bridgette Duty Army (WCAP)
8. Montana DeLawder Team Tornado Wrestling Club
9. Esther Han Bruin Wrestling Club
10. Hailey Corona Brunson UVRTC

62 kg
1. Jennifer Rogers Nittany Lion WC/TMWC
2. Macey Kilty Sunkist Kids Wrestling Academy
3. Andrea Schlabach Grand View Wrestling Club
4. Cierra Foster Idaho/TMWC
5. Emmily Patneaud McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
6. Alexandria Liles Army (WCAP)
7. Sierra Brown Ton Twin Cities Regional Training Center

65 kg
1. Emma Bruntil USOPTC/TMWC
2. Mallory Velte Beaver Dam RTC/TMWC
3. Maya Letona New York City RTC
4. Amanda Hendey Colorado Mesa WC/TMWC
5. Ashlynn Ortega New York Athletic Club
6. Emily Se California
7. Rachel Watters Hawkeye WC/TMWC
8. Dalia Garibay Colorado Mesa Wrestling Club
9. Destiny Lyng California

68 kg
1. Sienna Ramirez Southern Oregon Regional Training Center
2. Nahiela Magee Army (WCAP)
3. Alara Boyd McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
4. Solin Piearcy Menlo Wrestling Club
5. Ana Luciano Team Tornado Wrestling Club
6. Kairah Cantillo Grand View Wrestling Club
7. Aury Naylor Georgia
8. Olivia Pizano Southern Oregon Regional Training Center

72 kg
1. Skylar Grote New York Athletic Club
2. Amit Elor NYC RTC/TMWC
3. Marlynne Deede Twin Cities Regional Training Center
4. Marilyn Garcia California
5. Skie Roulo Cougar Wrestling Club
6. Jessica Kemgne New York City RTC

76 kg
1. Dymond Guilford USOPTC/TMWC
2. Precious Bell Victory School of Wrestling/TMWC
3. Yelena Makoyed Cardinal WC/TMWC
4. Victoria Francis Hawkeye WC/TMWC
5. Tristan Kelly Army (WCAP)
6. Jordan Nelson Hawkeye WC/TMWC
7. Olivia Robinson Peninsula Wrestling Club (PWC)
8. Melissa Jacobs Twin Cities Regional Training Center
9. Joye Levendusky McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
 
MPhillips said:
Not sure if this is the correct thread for this info, but I noticed it's already three pages about girls/women's wrestling.(y)

??Women's WTT Seeds

50 kg
1. Erin Golston New York Athletic Club
2. Alyssa Lampe Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
3. Sage Mortimer King/TMWC
4. Nyla Valencia TMWC
5. Emily Shilson Twin Cities RTC/TMWC
6. Nina Pham Texas Wrestling Club
7. Caitlyn Walker New York City RTC
8. Charlotte Fowler River Valley Wrestling Club
9. Arelys Valles Grand View Wrestling Club
10. Danielle Garcia Team Tornado Wrestling Club
11. Mariah Anderson Air Force Regional Training Center
12. Sydney Petzinger Cardinal Wrestling Club
13. Natalie Reyna-Rodriguez McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club

53 kg
1. Felicity Taylor McKendree Bearcat WC/TMWC
2. Ronna Heaton Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
3. Areana Villaescusa Army (WCAP)
4. Dominique Parrish Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
5. Alisha Howk Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
6. Estrella Dorado Marin Army (WCAP)
7. Haley Franich Air Force Regional Training Center

55 kg
1. Jacarra Winchester USOPTC/TMWC
2. Marissa Gallegos Colorado Mesa WC/TMWC
3. Lauren Mason Brunson UVRTC
4. Torieonna Buchanan Red Cobra Wrestling Academy
5. Victoria Smith Grand View Wrestling Club

57 kg
1. Adriana Dorado Marin Army (WCAP)
2. Cameron Guerin McKendree Bearcat WC/TMWC
3. Alexandra Hedrick USOPTC/TMWC
4. Amanda Martinez Cardinal WC/TMWC
5. Ngao Shoua Whitethorn Victory School of Wrestling
6. Tateum Park Twin Cities Regional Training Center
7. Elvie Villa McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
8. Genesis Ramirez All Navy Wrestling

59 kg
1. Nanea Estrella Titan Mercury Wrestling Club
2. Abigail Nette Army (WCAP)
3. Michaela Beck Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club
4. Lexie Basham Spartan Mat Club
5. Niya Teresita Gaines Cardinal Wrestling Club
6. Claire DiCugno Colorado Mesa Wrestling Club
7. Bridgette Duty Army (WCAP)
8. Montana DeLawder Team Tornado Wrestling Club
9. Esther Han Bruin Wrestling Club
10. Hailey Corona Brunson UVRTC

62 kg
1. Jennifer Rogers Nittany Lion WC/TMWC
2. Macey Kilty Sunkist Kids Wrestling Academy
3. Andrea Schlabach Grand View Wrestling Club
4. Cierra Foster Idaho/TMWC
5. Emmily Patneaud McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
6. Alexandria Liles Army (WCAP)
7. Sierra Brown Ton Twin Cities Regional Training Center

65 kg
1. Emma Bruntil USOPTC/TMWC
2. Mallory Velte Beaver Dam RTC/TMWC
3. Maya Letona New York City RTC
4. Amanda Hendey Colorado Mesa WC/TMWC
5. Ashlynn Ortega New York Athletic Club
6. Emily Se California
7. Rachel Watters Hawkeye WC/TMWC
8. Dalia Garibay Colorado Mesa Wrestling Club
9. Destiny Lyng California

68 kg
1. Sienna Ramirez Southern Oregon Regional Training Center
2. Nahiela Magee Army (WCAP)
3. Alara Boyd McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
4. Solin Piearcy Menlo Wrestling Club
5. Ana Luciano Team Tornado Wrestling Club
6. Kairah Cantillo Grand View Wrestling Club
7. Aury Naylor Georgia
8. Olivia Pizano Southern Oregon Regional Training Center

72 kg
1. Skylar Grote New York Athletic Club
2. Amit Elor NYC RTC/TMWC
3. Marlynne Deede Twin Cities Regional Training Center
4. Marilyn Garcia California
5. Skie Roulo Cougar Wrestling Club
6. Jessica Kemgne New York City RTC

76 kg
1. Dymond Guilford USOPTC/TMWC
2. Precious Bell Victory School of Wrestling/TMWC
3. Yelena Makoyed Cardinal WC/TMWC
4. Victoria Francis Hawkeye WC/TMWC
5. Tristan Kelly Army (WCAP)
6. Jordan Nelson Hawkeye WC/TMWC
7. Olivia Robinson Peninsula Wrestling Club (PWC)
8. Melissa Jacobs Twin Cities Regional Training Center
9. Joye Levendusky McKendree Bearcat Wrestling Club
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Yappi,,, take care of this.
 
WishYouWereHere said:
You’re my friend, so I’m sharing it with you.
Actually, we’re all friends here.
We just disagree sometimes.
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Thanks, friend. I'm not even disagreeing. I'm just saying it's a done deal. I assume cases pro & con were presented and debated and the decision was made. We may not like it, but here we are. I remember 20 years ago at the World Championships in Madison Square Garden being annoyed that the women were competing alongside the men, but I actually really enjoyed it. Were they as skilled as the men? Not even close, but the matches were more wide-open with more scoring and very entertaining. Girls' HS wrestling is still in its infancy, but there's momentum and it seems like a safe bet that it will continue to grow over time.

Big picture - it seems clear that in order to reverse the slow death that NCAA men's wrestling has experienced for the past 30+ years due to title 9, wrestling needs women's wrestling to grow to sustain itself as an NCAA sport. As NIL potentially further separates the "haves from the have nots" in NCAA wrestling programs not named - Ohio State, Iowa, Penn State or Oklahoma State- are increasingly vulnerable to being cut. It's not hard to imagine a world without D1 wrestling at schools like Lock Haven, Sacred Heart, George Mason, Cal Poly, LIU, Edinboro, Clarion, Kent, Ohio U, SIEU, App State, UTC, Campbell, Davidson, Bucknell, CMU, Drexel, Hofstra, etc.... that world is closer to reality than we might admit. Growing women's wrestling can only help those schools to keep their programs viable.

Now for my rant, in my imaginary perfect world, we would all be wrestling freestyle and greco like the rest of the planet. I know that has been debated on message boards a million times, and it's not likely to change in my lifetime, but it does seem silly to me that girls HS wrestling wrestle folkstyle rather than free. I hear the argument about coaching and referring, but I also can't accept that those obstacles cannot be overcome. In my mind, it's still wrestling just with a little different strategy, scoring, and ruleset. My daughter plays HS Lax, and the rules for girls is so different, it might as well be a different sport than boys LAX. I think we can adapt.
 
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I know it’s happening; and I have nothing against girls wrestling.
But, I have this nagging voice in the back of my brain that says, “they already messed up the weight classes. It’s just a matter of time before they cut them to 13, or even 12 weights.”
Or worse, “they’re gonna cut down to 2 divisions”. “Just to make room for girls wrestling”.
I know that the OHSAA saw that there was a dollar to be made and they pulled the trigger. With 224 more competitors at the tournament, that’s a lot more paying people at the ticket office.
Could’ve added the boys district 5th placer to the state tournament; that would’ve added 168 more competitors.
But, with the girls district numbers I presented above, gotta imagine that they’re losing money there.
So the boy’s districts pay for that as well.
 
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WishYouWereHere said:
I know it’s happening; and I have nothing against girls wrestling.
But, I have this nagging voice in the back of my brain that says, “they already messed up the weight classes. It’s just a matter of time before they cut them to 13, or even 12 weights.”
Or worse, “they’re gonna cut down to 2 divisions”. “Just to make room for girls wrestling”.
I know that the OHSAA saw that there was a dollar to be made and they pulled the trigger. With 224 more competitors at the tournament, that’s a lot more paying people at the ticket office.
Could’ve added the boys district 5th placer to the state tournament; that would’ve added 168 more competitors.
But, with the girls district numbers I presented above, gotta imagine that they’re losing money there.
So the boy’s districts pay for that as well.
Click to expand...
Could be. It would make sense to reduce boys' weights and combine divisions at some point if/when girls' participation grows. Heck, look at Olympic wrestling. We lost it, but "won" it back with reduced weight classes.
 
WishYouWereHere said:
I know it’s happening; and I have nothing against girls wrestling.
But, I have this nagging voice in the back of my brain that says, “they already messed up the weight classes. It’s just a matter of time before they cut them to 13, or even 12 weights.”
Or worse, “they’re gonna cut down to 2 divisions”. “Just to make room for girls wrestling”.
I know that the OHSAA saw that there was a dollar to be made and they pulled the trigger. With 224 more competitors at the tournament, that’s a lot more paying people at the ticket office.
Could’ve added the boys district 5th placer to the state tournament; that would’ve added 168 more competitors.
But, with the girls district numbers I presented above, gotta imagine that they’re losing money there.
So the boy’s districts pay for that as well.
Click to expand...
They won't cut down divisions because then they would lose money. The more divisions, the more participants, and then more money. I don't think they'll add more boys divisions but I don't see them taking them away either.

Since you've brought up hypothetical polls in past posts, I would like to do the same. I bet that the vast majority of track, swimming, and cross country participants, coaches, and spectators would vote to keep both the boys and girls tournaments together.

Maybe we change to a venue where we can go back to Thursday-Saturday and have, lets say 16 mats, so that the time table is similar since as years past.
 
WishYouWereHere said:
Can Yappi create a GIRLS WRESTLING forum since this is a “done deal”?
That way, when we’re here talking about boys wrestling, we can tell the girls wrestling crowd to GET OFF OUR LAWN!!!
They will need a place to talk about not having enough officials, stalling calls, how they had a first-year wrestler place at state, low numbers, no female coaches, can’t find good seats for the state tournament, how their hair looks, singlets or 2-piece, need their own wrestling room, just staying in shape for track or soccer, etc.
Come on Yappi… do it.
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I mean Track and CC share a forum and that's for boys and girls in both. Hopefully some day girls wrestling is so big they need a whole site of their own and need to rent out the Shoe for their state tourney but for now you are just going to have to live with sharing this forum. Maybe Yappi can tag posts that deal with girls wrestling so you can skip them and spare you delicate sensibilities.
 
queencitybuckeye said:
In my perfect world, those two would be renamed boredom and tedium. Folkstyle is vastly more entertaining IMO.
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Different strokes for different folks. My point is that women's collegiate wrestling is Freestyle, so training and competing in Folkstyle in high school seems counterproductive to growing the sport. It would be like girls playing softball in high school and then switching to baseball in college.
 
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pinem07 said:
They won't cut down divisions because then they would lose money. The more divisions, the more participants, and then more money. I don't think they'll add more boys divisions but I don't see them taking them away either.

Since you've brought up hypothetical polls in past posts, I would like to do the same. I bet that the vast majority of track, swimming, and cross country participants, coaches, and spectators would vote to keep both the boys and girls tournaments together.

Maybe we change to a venue where we can go back to Thursday-Saturday and have, lets say 16 mats, so that the time table is similar since as years past.
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A venue that holds 16 mats with 10k+ seating doesn't exist in Ohio.
 
chidy said:
A venue that holds 16 mats with 10k+ seating doesn't exist in Ohio.
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The Q in Cleveland? How many mats did it hold for NCAA? Better set up than the Schott in my opinion when NCAA was there. Rode the subway from suburb hotel, got out in that tower mall, rode escalator up to the Q....pretty sweet deal. There was another venue in Cleveland that hosted the D2 Nationals the same year. No clue how large that place is.
 
TheStuff142 said:
The Q in Cleveland? How many mats did it hold for NCAA? Better set up than the Schott in my opinion when NCAA was there. Rode the subway from suburb hotel, got out in that tower mall, rode escalator up to the Q....pretty sweet deal. There was another venue in Cleveland that hosted the D2 Nationals the same year. No clue how large that place is.
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8 mats for NCAAs at Q. May be able to hold 10 but that would most likely be the max. Maybe 12. No basketball hockey/arena in the country can hold 16 mats & have 10k+ seating. The only venues that can hold that many mats is an indoor football stadium which there are none of in Ohio that I'm aware of.
 
16 mats? lol, could move Ohio states to the Fargodome (23). ....And if only can get in 10,000 for semis and finals there will be hail to pay from fans, boosters and parents.

i'm in favor of womens wrestling, but dont believe it should be SHOEHORNED into the Boys tourn. Logistically will be messy. Has this been well thought out.?

I have heard (from a well-placed source) that PA plans to do the same. My contact has no clue how that will work unless they add another FULL day. PA states had trouble this season with terrible attendance esp considering it is high school wrestlings top state. Recently the brackets for boys had been expanded to 20 for both Classes. That ended up with seemingly endless consys, but coaches wanted it.....so i guess we will have endless consys here too now.

now the math says we will have 8 Semi mats and 4 consy running simultaneously? instead of current 6 & 3. Not feasible but that night round will last forever .

how looooooooong will sessions be, esp the finals matches plus girls awards?... Will refs & tableworkers falter from exhaustion, i.e. make mistakes? drop out? Will any fans stay to see the upperwt finals? How bout the 4 raised mats for Sunday nite, . If it fits workers must construct that thing in limited time... any thoughts to Newspaper deadlines Sunday nite?
 
If this was already mentioned I apologize. Rumor floating around NE Ohio is there will no longer be “ the stage “ with three mats on it. Instead, there will be 4 mats, but on the floor. OHSAA has to figure a way to keep our unique Finals atmosphere!!! Adjust the schedule, or adjust the floor plan. They could add onto stage and have 4 mats on it. For one thing, they DO NOT need a castle for a “head table”!!! Coaches: it is now time to unite and save the Big stage that our kids(boys and girls) have always dreamed of!
 
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This just in.
The OHSAA is recognizing girls flag football this coming fall.
3 girls divisions were decided to have at the state championships in December.
The OHSAA was unable to secure the fields for 4 days, so the 10 championship games will have to be squeezed into the 3 days.
Thur 10:30 am - boys division II
Thur 3:00 pm - boys div IV
Thur 7:00 pm - girls div II
Fri 9:00 am - boys div I
Fri 1:00 pm - boys div III
Fri 5:00 pm - girls div I
Fri 9:00 pm - boys div VI
Sat 10:30 am - boys div V
Sat 3:00 pm - boys div VII
Sat 7:00 pm - girls div III

Good news : you don’t have to pay to sit and watch the games that you don’t want to (unlike those poor wrestling fans)
Bad news : some of the boys games will be really early or really late.

Updated breaking news …
OHSAA is considering dropping 3 of the boys divisions so that Championship weekend stays at 7 games (4 boys and 3 girls).
A vote will occur at the June board meeting in Hawaii.
 
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bucksman said:
If the stage is gotten rid of, it would not be because they could not fit the stage in the floor configuration. In my opinion, it would be for the time savings involved in not having to build it.
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Yeah there's floors space for it but I'm guessing it would be to cut down on time to build it.
 
Claw Rider said:
If this was already mentioned I apologize. Rumor floating around NE Ohio is there will no longer be “ the stage “ with three mats on it. Instead, there will be 4 mats, but on the floor. OHSAA has to figure a way to keep our unique Finals atmosphere!!! Adjust the schedule, or adjust the floor plan. They could add onto stage and have 4 mats on it. For one thing, they DO NOT need a castle for a “head table”!!! Coaches: it is now time to unite and save the Big stage that our kids(boys and girls) have always dreamed of!
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the head table as well. Part of the head table construction creates the overhang for the tunnel where the wrestlers come out. If that overhang and huge head table isn't there is there enough room to fit 2 additional mats (12 total) which would speed up the schedule for sessions (1-3) and allow for each of the now 4 divisions (3 boys, 1 girl) to have 3 mats for the semis/consis (Session 4) and consi semis/placement matches (Session 5)
 
1653416831589.jpeg

I’m gonna say… 12 won’t fit.
 
I like an option that may/may not have been entertained ----

Add a 4th day (Thursday) and hold two, 2-day events with (example) Girls & D3 on Thurs/Fri and D2 & D1 on Sat/Sun. Personally, I like this option as it has potential (over the long haul) to cross off several negatives from the current format and upcoming format's "struggles" .... i.e., Awards ceremony moves quicker, minimal breaks, decreased expenses for parents & schools (1 less night in hotel), potential for zero PTO for coaches/schools. The key to this format is to ensure you are rotating which days you have the girls division compete on (Title IX).

The obvious backlash with the 4-day event is the added rental cost for OHSAA, breaking down & building up wrestling mat formation and adding a 4th day for referees, workers and other volunteers. Again my opinion, I think the positives out-weigh the negatives by a considerable margin.
 
@joemariocampo said:
I like an option that may/may not have been entertained ----

Add a 4th day (Thursday) and hold two, 2-day events with (example) Girls & D3 on Thurs/Fri and D2 & D1 on Sat/Sun. Personally, I like this option as it has potential (over the long haul) to cross off several negatives from the current format and upcoming format's "struggles" .... i.e., Awards ceremony moves quicker, minimal breaks, decreased expenses for parents & schools (1 less night in hotel), potential for zero PTO for coaches/schools. The key to this format is to ensure you are rotating which days you have the girls division compete on (Title IX).

The obvious backlash with the 4-day event is the added rental cost for OHSAA, breaking down & building up wrestling mat formation and adding a 4th day for referees, workers and other volunteers. Again my opinion, I think the positives out-weigh the negatives by a considerable margin.
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That is EXACTLY what I have been saying to people for at least 6 months! Of course, no one listens to me.
I felt that if the divisions are rotated as to who they are paired with (including the girls) and rotate the days, it would be the smart move.
You could hold the event using 8 mats all the way through.
Great minds think alike!
BTW, it would allow for arenas other than OSU's to be used.
 
To add two more mats, you need 36 feet of floor space
The requisite floor space of mats is 222 feet in length plus any residual space you want to have beyond the last mat on each side.
 
bucksman said:
If the stage is gotten rid of, it would not be because they could not fit the stage in the floor configuration. In my opinion, it would be for the time savings involved in not having to build it.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure they don't care about time savings… they stretch a 16 man bracket across three days!
 
@joemariocampo said:
I like an option that may/may not have been entertained ----

Add a 4th day (Thursday) and hold two, 2-day events with (example) Girls & D3 on Thurs/Fri and D2 & D1 on Sat/Sun. Personally, I like this option as it has potential (over the long haul) to cross off several negatives from the current format and upcoming format's "struggles" .... i.e., Awards ceremony moves quicker, minimal breaks, decreased expenses for parents & schools (1 less night in hotel), potential for zero PTO for coaches/schools. The key to this format is to ensure you are rotating which days you have the girls division compete on (Title IX).

The obvious backlash with the 4-day event is the added rental cost for OHSAA, breaking down & building up wrestling mat formation and adding a 4th day for referees, workers and other volunteers. Again my opinion, I think the positives out-weigh the negatives by a considerable margin.
Click to expand...
Makes too much sense Joe!!!!:unsure:
 
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