OHSAA FINALS

F

Flyster80

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D2 OHSSA Final

Summit Country Day beats Rocky River 1-0 off a corner kick. Rocky River dominated the first half, but SCDs defense was absolutely solid across the board.

RR hit the cross bar but not a ton of chances on goal. SCD did not dominant offensively, but defensively they were able to contain a very good RR team.

Fun game to watch overall, congratulations to both teams.
 
 
Flyster80 said:
D2 OHSSA Final

Summit Country Day beats Rocky River 1-0 off a corner kick. Rocky River dominated the first half, but SCDs defense was absolutely solid across the board.

RR hit the cross bar but not a ton of chances on goal. SCD did not dominant offensively, but defensively they were able to contain a very good RR team.

Fun game to watch overall, congratulations to both teamsters
Flyster80 said:
D2 OHSSA Final

Summit Country Day beats Rocky River 1-0 off a corner kick. Rocky River dominated the first half, but SCDs defense was absolutely solid across the board.

RR hit the cross bar but not a ton of chances on goal. SCD did not dominant offensively, but defensively they were able to contain a very good RR team.

Fun game to watch overall, congratulations to both
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Cincinnati Country Day beats Ottawa Glandorf 1-0 in a battle of 1 vs 2

Zimmerman header gives Hawks back to back crowns - Michael Hirn

COLUMBUS - Last season Elizabeth Zimmerman broke the hearts of Ottawa Glandorf, this season it was her twin sister Megan who gave Cincinnati Country Day their second straight title with a 1-0 victory and the division 3 title. Working off of one of their six first half corner kicks the Nighthawks...
michaelhirn.com michaelhirn.com
 
iluvsnow said:
Three divisions....three private school champions. Must be better coaching:LOL::LOL::LOL:.
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Can tell you the Walsh Jesuit coach is absolutely one of finest in the country. Javier gets the most out of every team he coaches. All the private versus public crap is just that, crap. 80 % of public schools in Ohio have open enrollment.
 
kmac57 said:
Can tell you the Walsh Jesuit coach is absolutely one of finest in the country. Javier gets the most out of every team he coaches. All the private versus public crap is just that, crap. 80 % of public schools in Ohio have open enrollment.
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Are you sure you really want to go there kmac? Have you already forgotten what your "one of the finest in the country" Coach did during last year's regional final versus Strongsville? 2022 Walsh vs Strongsville After the game, he ran onto the field, resentfully shook the CR's hand, then began saying things towards the CR earning a red card and was suspended multiple games at the beginning of the 2023 season. That doesn't sound like "one of the finest in the country." In 20+ years of coaching, I've had many CR's that I was frustrated with but like most coaches we keep our mouth shut remembering that we are role models to teenagers and parents and must set a good example. Watch the video and notice how his behavior green lighted others to come onto the field including a parent who had to be escorted off by an administrator and a police officer. There's more to coaching then just knowing the game. Here's something to ponder...Did WJ win the state title due to the "finest in the country" coach or was it due to the high quality free kicks taken by Hannah Pachan in the semis and finals? FYI--During the season, Hannah scored more goals then the next three players on her team combined and she scored all of the WJ goals in the state semis and finals. While I'll agree with you that JI knows the game and is a good coach, I definitley disagree with him being labeled "one of the finest" in the country. IMHO there are more deserving coaches out there (and no I'm not thinking of myself).

On a side note, watch the highlight film from the Walsh vs Strongsville state semifinal game. Notice how the CR called a foul against the Strongsville player that led to Panchan's free kick game winning goal. The only problem was that the defender won the ball away from #8 without fouling her (good 50/50 challenge). The ball was well away from them before #8 fell. IMHO it appeared that #8 dove in an attempt to earn a free kick and should've been given a yellow card for the dive. See it for yourself: 2023 Walsh vs Strongsville Had the CR ignored the dive then, who knows how that game finishes. Definitely makes you question why #8 dove after the ball was away? Did she make the decision on her own or was she instructed/encouraged to dive in an attempt to earn a free kick just outside the penalty box? Makes one wonder...
 
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Pundit said:
Are you sure you really want to go there kmac? Have you already forgotten what your "one of the finest in the country" Coach did during last year's regional final versus Strongsville? 2022 Walsh vs Strongsville After the game, he ran onto the field, resentfully shook the CR's hand, then began saying things towards the CR earning a red card and was suspended multiple games at the beginning of the 2023 season. That doesn't sound like "one of the finest in the country." In 20+ years of coaching, I've had many CR's that I was frustrated with but like most coaches we keep our mouth shut remembering that we are role models to teenagers and parents and must set a good example. Watch the video and notice how his behavior green lighted others to come onto the field including a parent who had to be escorted off by an administrator and a police officer. There's more to coaching then just knowing the game. Here's something to ponder...Did WJ win the state title due to the "finest in the country" coach or was it due to the high quality free kicks taken by Hannah Pachan in the semis and finals? FYI--During the season, Hannah scored more goals then the next three players on her team combined and she scored all of the WJ goals in the state semis and finals. While I'll agree with you that JI knows the game and is a good coach, I definitley disagree with him being labeled "one of the finest" in the country. IMHO there are more deserving coaches out there (and no I'm not thinking of myself).

On a side note, watch the highlight film from the Walsh vs Strongsville state semifinal game. Notice how the CR called a foul against the Strongsville player that led to Panchan's free kick game winning goal. The only problem was that the defender won the ball away from #8 without fouling her (good 50/50 challenge). The ball was well away from them before #8 fell. IMHO it appeared that #8 dove in an attempt to earn a free kick and should've been given a yellow card for the dive. See it for yourself: 2023 Walsh vs Strongsville Had the CR ignored the dive then, who knows how that game finishes. Definitely makes you question why #8 dove after the ball was away? Did she make the decision on her own or was she instructed/encouraged to dive in an attempt to earn a free kick just outside the penalty box? Makes one wonder...
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Maybe it was a technique she learned at one of her high level non- scholastic teams or training sessions. Pundit you might be right but you also know the high level kids get way more training,often in the professional tricks of the game,outside of their high school training..
 
Pundit said:
Are you sure you really want to go there kmac? Have you already forgotten what your "one of the finest in the country" Coach did during last year's regional final versus Strongsville? 2022 Walsh vs Strongsville After the game, he ran onto the field, resentfully shook the CR's hand, then began saying things towards the CR earning a red card and was suspended multiple games at the beginning of the 2023 season. That doesn't sound like "one of the finest in the country." In 20+ years of coaching, I've had many CR's that I was frustrated with but like most coaches we keep our mouth shut remembering that we are role models to teenagers and parents and must set a good example. Watch the video and notice how his behavior green lighted others to come onto the field including a parent who had to be escorted off by an administrator and a police officer. There's more to coaching then just knowing the game. Here's something to ponder...Did WJ win the state title due to the "finest in the country" coach or was it due to the high quality free kicks taken by Hannah Pachan in the semis and finals? FYI--During the season, Hannah scored more goals then the next three players on her team combined and she scored all of the WJ goals in the state semis and finals. While I'll agree with you that JI knows the game and is a good coach, I definitley disagree with him being labeled "one of the finest" in the country. IMHO there are more deserving coaches out there (and no I'm not thinking of myself).

On a side note, watch the highlight film from the Walsh vs Strongsville state semifinal game. Notice how the CR called a foul against the Strongsville player that led to Panchan's free kick game winning goal. The only problem was that the defender won the ball away from #8 without fouling her (good 50/50 challenge). The ball was well away from them before #8 fell. IMHO it appeared that #8 dove in an attempt to earn a free kick and should've been given a yellow card for the dive. See it for yourself: 2023 Walsh vs Strongsville Had the CR ignored the dive then, who knows how that game finishes. Definitely makes you question why #8 dove after the ball was away? Did she make the decision on her own or was she instructed/encouraged to dive in an attempt to earn a free kick just outside the penalty box? Makes one wonder...
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Well, certainly smell a whiff of sour grapes. I
can't comment on the free kick play as I did not see it. I can tell you Javier NEVER coaches the fall down for free kicks. At least when at Alter.This is kind of ironic, as in his first year at Alter they lost to Granville in semifinals to the best fall down to get free kicks I have ever seen. She had a million goals 90% on free kicks. The refs were even warned before the game. Her first fall got the game winner early first half. To refs credit, she fell numerous times through out that game never getting the call. I will check out the play you have described. Yes I saw Javier's temper tantrum last year. Highly unlike him, never saw anything like it before this. Think he would feel it was a very bad choice and let down his girls. I believe in second chances. Understand your point of view, soccer is sooo emotional at times. I am
soccer dad to 2 girls. Seen many things, it is the duty of a coach to teach and model sportsmanship. Javier failed that day, but believe he will learn from it.
 
Watched the free kick play. First #
kmac57 said:
Well, certainly smell a whiff of sour grapes. I
can't comment on the free kick play as I did not see it. I can tell you Javier NEVER coaches the fall down for free kicks. At least when at Alter.This is kind of ironic, as in his first year at Alter they lost to Granville in semifinals to the best fall down to get free kicks I have ever seen. She had a million goals 90% on free kicks. The refs were even warned before the game. Her first fall got the game winner early first half. To refs credit, she fell numerous times through out that game never getting the call. I will check out the play you have described. Yes I saw Javier's temper tantrum last year. Highly unlike him, never saw anything like it before this. Think he would feel it was a very bad choice and let down his girls. I believe in second chances. Understand your point of view, soccer is sooo emotional at times. I am
soccer dad to 2 girls. Seen many things, it is the duty of a coach to teach and model sportsmanship. Javier failed that day, but believe he will learn from it.
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Saw the free kick play. Also saw many highlight plays with #8. She is a super aggressive player. Can see why you might have an issue with the penalty call. However, my two cents did not see it as a a foul, but can see why it was called if that makes any sense. I do believe if you watch at end Strongsville player forearm gently pushes #8. Again I don't think it was foul, but is not the most agregies of calls.
 
kmac57 said:
Well, certainly smell a whiff of sour grapes. I
can't comment on the free kick play as I did not see it. I can tell you Javier NEVER coaches the fall down for free kicks. At least when at Alter.This is kind of ironic, as in his first year at Alter they lost to Granville in semifinals to the best fall down to get free kicks I have ever seen. She had a million goals 90% on free kicks. The refs were even warned before the game. Her first fall got the game winner early first half. To refs credit, she fell numerous times through out that game never getting the call. I will check out the play you have described. Yes I saw Javier's temper tantrum last year. Highly unlike him, never saw anything like it before this. Think he would feel it was a very bad choice and let down his girls. I believe in second chances. Understand your point of view, soccer is sooo emotional at times. I am
soccer dad to 2 girls. Seen many things, it is the duty of a coach to teach and model sportsmanship. Javier failed that day, but believe he will learn from it.
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Sour grapes?? I gave him a compliment. The problem was with your comment of him being "one of the finest in the country" so soon after his behavior last year. My standards for being "one of the finest in the country" are much higher than yours. There's definitely more to coaching then winning state titles at two private schools that already had success prior to his arrival. I'm more impressed when coaches are able to win at a school that doesn't have a soccer pedigree, or at a school that doesn't have high level soccer clubs feeding them the best players in the area, or at public schools that make due with the players that actually reside in the school district and aren't able to bring in the best players from all over an area.

As for your interpretation of a potential foul by a forearm from #22, the ball was cleanly knocked away from #8. After the ball was away, both players had their arms up and on each other (4:01 mark at full speed; 4:16 at slow speed). While #22's forearm goes out, it doesn't knock #8 off her feet and then a split second later you can see #8 dive to the ground. As a former referee of 10 years (College, HS, and USSF), referees are taught to look for potential fouls after the ball has moved away and we're taught to recognize players diving. Since the forearm going out and the intentionional dive both happened after the ball was away, I would've signaled/yelled "play on" and would've spoke with both players at the next available stoppage. Would've warned #8 for diving and #22 to keep her forearm down. Definitely wouldn't have called the foul in that situation.
 
Pundit said:
Sour grapes?? I gave him a compliment. The problem was with your comment of him being "one of the finest in the country" so soon after his behavior last year. My standards for being "one of the finest in the country" are much higher than yours. There's definitely more to coaching then winning state titles at two private schools that already had success prior to his arrival. I'm more impressed when coaches are able to win at a school that doesn't have a soccer pedigree, or at a school that doesn't have high level soccer clubs feeding them the best players in the area, or at public schools that make due with the players that actually reside in the school district and aren't able to bring in the best players from all over an area.

As for your interpretation of a potential foul by a forearm from #22, the ball was cleanly knocked away from #8. After the ball was away, both players had their arms up and on each other (4:01 mark at full speed; 4:16 at slow speed). While #22's forearm goes out, it doesn't knock #8 off her feet and then a split second later you can see #8 dive to the ground. As a former referee of 10 years (College, HS, and USSF), referees are taught to look for potential fouls after the ball has moved away and we're taught to recognize players diving. Since the forearm going out and the intentionional dive both happened after the ball was away, I would've signaled/yelled "play on" and would've spoke with both players at the next available stoppage. Would've warned #8 for diving and #22 to keep her forearm down. Definitely wouldn't have called the foul in that situation.
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You said........"Since the forearm going out and the intentional dive both happened after the ball was away, I would've signaled/yelled "play on" and would've spoke with both players at the next available stoppage." ???? This is a completely inappropriate use of the terminology, as "Play On" signifies the presence of a foul but the Referee is allowing the attack to continue. It should NOT be used when 'mutually illegal' contact is noted, resulting in a No Call. I've used phrases like "Arms Both", "Both of you!", "Trifling", "Nothing there!", even "Continue!".......but avoid the word 'play' in any phrase unless "Advantage!" will immediately follow. You refereed? Hmm.
 
kmac57 said:
Can tell you the Walsh Jesuit coach is absolutely one of finest in the country. Javier gets the most out of every team he coaches. All the private versus public crap is just that, crap. 80 % of public schools in Ohio have open enrollment.
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Was he at Alter at one time? Never mind see it in your response above.
 
MJ_SoccerRef said:
You said........"Since the forearm going out and the intentional dive both happened after the ball was away, I would've signaled/yelled "play on" and would've spoke with both players at the next available stoppage." ???? This is a completely inappropriate use of the terminology, as "Play On" signifies the presence of a foul but the Referee is allowing the attack to continue. It should NOT be used when 'mutually illegal' contact is noted, resulting in a No Call. I've used phrases like "Arms Both", "Both of you!", "Trifling", "Nothing there!", even "Continue!".......but avoid the word 'play' in any phrase unless "Advantage!" will immediately follow. You refereed? Hmm.
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MK_Soccer, "Play on" signifies the presence of a foul or misconduct. USSF Advice to Referees on the Laws of the Game Referees have the power to apply (and signal) the advantage upon seeing a foul or misconduct (attempts to deceive the referee, e.g. pretending to have been fouled) committed if at that moment the terms of the advantage clause (Law 5, 11th item) were met. The use of advantage as described in Law 5 is strictly limited to infringements of Law 12 — both the section covering fouls and the later section on misconduct (see link above).

Initially the illegal contact was mutual and the ball was cleared away by the defender. This in itself warrants no action or words by the CR. It's what transpires afterwards that's being debated. The CR's argument is that the defender's forearm raises up and is extended outward causing #8 to fall. I see it differently especially when considering the fact that the defender had cleared the ball away before the forearm/dive. While I acknowledge the defender's forearm is up at the same time as #8's, I don't see the defender's actions causing #8 to fall and IMHO I believe #8 embellished the contact in an attempt to draw the foul representing misconduct on her part. Signalling advantage and saying "play on" signifies that the CR saw a foul/misconduct thus allowing the game to continue. Another way to determine when to invoke the advantage is to apply the Four Ps: Possession (#8 didn't have possession), Potential (there was no goal scoring potential), Personnel (other players nearby), and Proximity (to goal). Since #8 didn't have possession at the time of the forearm extension (a potential foul) and since #8 appeared to dive, I would've signaled "play on" and would've talked with both (at the next stoppage) letting them know that either could've been carded for either dangerous play (raised forearm) or intentionally diving. As for all of the other verbage you stated, I was taught to refrain from making comments that are outside of what's recommended by FIFA, USSF, IFAB, NFHS and to try my best to control the game early on so as not to be seen/heard unless necessary.
 
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"....... try my best to control the game early on so as not to be seen/heard unless necessary."

Perhaps you haven't officiated OHSAA games recently, but over the last few years they have emphasized Referees should be proactive, to indeed interact with the players, etc. With that in mind, communicating that the I have seen something, evaluated it, and then letting the players know (verbally) WHY something was a 'no call' or a whistle & FK, is a positive thing. I have, over the years, been complimented by players, coaches, ADs, and even parents for taking this approach. We all Match Manage using what works for us & our own personalities. That approach has worked very well for me. What ever works for you.......cheers.

As to your use of 'Play On' in the situation described, I get it, thanks. Again, I still would avoid using that specific terminology (my personal choice for MY Match Management, of course) for 'mutually illegal' contact / simultaneous fouls. "Advantage", ITOOTR, should be reserved for fouls where a FK 'would' have been awarded instead of allowing the attack to continue, etc., etc.
 
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