LOL Congratulations on your mention of 1. New math quiz for you pencil neck ...Lets start comparing BIG 10 AA'S and Champs against the Ivy League programs. Then once you get that math lesson, we'll move on to Elite recruits 3-4 x State champs with Fargo championship or high placements compared to other D1 wrestlers not as Elite, multiple placers? ...1 x Champs who win NCAA titles? Let's see what a math whiz you really are on all these up and comers beating out Elite guys who choose wrestling as their priority lol .
Name calling? How adult of you.
This was not your original argument. The above post is information we all know... for the most part, elite HS kids win in college. You claimed to know the thoughts and feelings of elite kids who didn't pan out in college, which was they just wanted to focus on education instead of wrestling.
"You claimed to know the thoughts and feelings of elite kids who didn't pan out in college, which was they just wanted to focus on education instead of wrestling.' I dont know? But you do? lol Yes I've spoke to many elite recruits after college, I've also spoke to many coaches who I personally know over a few beers after rounds at NCAA'S........MANY of those coaches would substantiate my statement is correct. MOST elite recruits who dont AA chose to put other things before wrestling, and choosing an IVY education over many full ride offers to wrestle in the Big 10 is a very good indicator of that. End of story . As for " the never made a bad call ref" ...I'll name dozens once you admit to the dozens of questionable calls you undoubtedly made where subjectivity came into play, and rock paper scissors was your guide.
What a complete troll.
yappi.com
Depends on how loosely you use the term, "native."
LOL You're too funny. Well you do have a few forum pals hit the "auto" like by association, not validity of course
Seems like we've veered off course a bit from the original discussion, but some of the athletes that you mentioned underscore the point that D1 wrestling is hard, and by definition, those that achieve AA status are exceptional. Thanks for bringing up -Tariq Wilson! He's a great example of a 0 time state champ who continued to develop in college. His QF against Kaid Brock in Cleveland remains one of my favorite NCAA moments of all time. Pat Popolozio at NC state is a case study in building a top program by finding those diamonds in the rough recruits and developing them into superstars (see Kevin Jack, Tommy Gannt, Mike Macavello, and Ohio boy Max Rohskopf). Did those guys have motivation- sure! But that's because they bought into the program and culture that Popolizio built. He made them believe and showed them the way. Same with Koll (now Grey ) at Cornell, Kolat (now Sentes) at Campbell, Ayres at Princeton, and Scott at UNC to name a few. In contrast, Ohio U, Kent, Michigan State, and Indiana for example don't seem to have the best track records of developing or retaining talent. Of course, there are a lot of reasons that recruits don't pan out and I'd guess that most kids have their decision made for them by their performance in the wrestling room or the classroom. Sometimes a kid just chooses the wrong school for them for a variety of reasons. A few of the names that you mentioned had some red flags (academic, behavior), others are still grinding and will finish with solid college careers - and hopefully, and most importantly a degree.
Are those instances of the other wrestlers not caring anymore or kids finding a great situation to succeed at the next level?
absolutely there are a plethora of reasons. To say that one of them isnt that they simply dont have the drive to be great like that did at the hs level is simply being obtuse. is it the only reason, no. But like you said there are a plethora of reasons. He stated one of them. Getting in trouble, family life, etc, can be carried back to the fact that being great isnt the number one or 2 priority any more.
"I think the reason people jump on his comments is that he says crazy things that he can't back up" LOL . Wow brutal assessment ....Actually I can back up many, if not all of my statements, with FAR more people involved in the sport like myself for over 40 years, than there are on this tiny group here lol As a competitor HS and college ( although short lived due to Title 9 BS ) a coach, Ohio's Jr national team, some college coaching 4 years, declined an invitation to coach at 1 of the best programs in the state all time. I speak, admittedly more rare these days, to a multitude of coaches in college I coached against at times, and see at NCAA'S ...Ironman etc. I can tell you FAR MORE of them agree with me on every issue I've opined on the not agreed. Some of my opining is based on discussions with them......A few points I just cant wrap my head around you claim I "cant back up" 1. So no ref has ever made a bad call costing a competitor a loss that shouldn't have been? Come on now....I've seen it plenty..as well of plenty of ref's with far bigger echo's than they should have. 2. Often with ELITE recruits...again lets say 3-4 timers, ranked top 5 in their weight class as a senior, senior national champ or finalist ...multi x Drago high placer, world team member etc. SOME of them just decide they no longer want to put wrestling and excelling at wrestling #1...! How hard is that to believe?? Obviously I can prove /validate that MOST elite recruits continue to beat lesser recruits based on % of AA'S whom are those same ELITE guys! Geezuz lol You ,mention some guys who took plenty of losses ...but had some good bracketing gods who assisted them on a low place. Also Tariq Wilson has an odd style ...what's he 6 feet tall at 141? He took plenty of losses but yes he overachieved IMO based on a style that was unique. I also NEVER said that a lesser recruit can't improve at all....I said that take an ELITE guy ( the description I gave above elite) at 18 years old , put them b both in a program with the same workout partners coaching desire etc ..Those ELITE guys continue to beat the lesser recruit over 90% of the time. BUT if the ELITE guy takes liking to partying, or is struggling with academics and competing...quite a few of them decide it's just not worth it as an adult to give the amount of effort necessary to continue to win everything in wrestling. Ok im done with this ...yes the horse is battered and bruised ...hopefully on his last breathe lol Next topic?????
Let’s not get carried away
Sorry, can't let it go just yet. Nobody is arguing that Refs blow calls from time to time, or that kids burn out from TMW.
" Help from the bracketing Gods? 4 times, really? Took plenty of losses? 24 losses in 5 years at the D1 level? I'm curious what does it take for you to give a kid some credit?" This statement was not directed at Tariq entirely, some low placing AA's do get help from bracketing, of course I still give them credit, and Tariq obviously deserves credit. I NEVER said no athlete can develop/improve in college.....I said and will repeat...if an ELITE recruit has the same desire, same high level training partners( almost always in a Big 10 program) same coaching level..as a lesser recruit, its extremely rare they will improve and surpass that hard working elite recruit, it just doesnt happen OFTEN, and when it does it's not a 2x low state placer, Fargo top 8 guy who is beating an Elite recruit from Iowa Okie state PSU....THOSE GUYS ARE TYPICALLY MOTIVATED to continue to excel......that doesn't mean they cant go to class, but they can surely take an easier path of education basically to continue to WRESTLE at a high level. Anyone who doesnt get those elite guys choosing Ivy education ....Harvard...Penn...Columbia....etc etc or any top school have decided education is #1 .....wrestling 2 or 3 or maybe even 4. Ask any D1 coach how many recruits who are top 3-5 in their weight nationally fade a bit because of lack of desire and or not prioritizing Wrestling as #1 anymore........I've heard it PLENTY.
Tariq is a novelty, I do believe his odd style and leverage helped him be a multiple AA , but never Champ. If you're attempting to pretend his level of success is common based on his HS success ....I'd say youre comparing apples to bananas.