Michigan Under New Investigation: Sign Stealing ?

bob99 said:
:unsure: Maybe in NCAA and all the teams playing the game the right way?
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Which is maybe 10%. They all cheat. Many of your past coaches are snakes. Covering up wife beating. I could go on and on and on. The NCAA football programs are full of scandals. Some are more serious, Some are not so serious. Some get caught, some don't get caught. Some cover it up, some don't cover it up. Corruptness is everywhere in college football, and if anyone doesn't think it is, they have their head in the sand.
 
bob99 said:
Not so fast my friend. They just put Micheaters on notice for the covid year recruiting and lying violations. They haven't got to the cheating scandal yet.
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See my post #711.
 
bkmk1 said:
Which is maybe 10%. They all cheat. Many of your past coaches are snakes. Covering up wife beating. I could go on and on and on. The NCAA football programs are full of scandals. Some are more serious, Some are not so serious. Some get caught, some don't get caught. Some cover it up, some don't cover it up. Corruptness is everywhere in college football, and if anyone doesn't think it is, they have their head in the sand.
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This is a bad take. "They all cheat"....so its OK????? Come on....you can do better.
 
bkmk1 said:
Which is maybe 10%. They all cheat. Many of your past coaches are snakes. Covering up wife beating. I could go on and on and on. The NCAA football programs are full of scandals. Some are more serious, Some are not so serious. Some get caught, some don't get caught. Some cover it up, some don't cover it up. Corruptness is everywhere in college football, and if anyone doesn't think it is, they have their head in the sand.
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Can't do anything about the past. Worry about the here and now. Crack down on the current cheaters that have been caught red handed and set an example for all others. Especially the hypocrites who claimed to do things "the right way."
It doesn't get anymore serious than to openly break rules to get an unfair advantage to win games. That goes against the integrity of the game.
 
When Michigan football coach Lloyd Carr announced his retirement last week, fans finally began to talk about all that Carr was besides just a winning coach. Carr was a person who signified the integrity and character for which the University stands. As the search for the next head coach gets underway, University values like diversity and integrity must be the central criteria, because they define the University even more than its tradition of winning.
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bkmk1 said:
Which is maybe 10%. They all cheat. Many of your past coaches are snakes. Covering up wife beating. I could go on and on and on. The NCAA football programs are full of scandals. Some are more serious, Some are not so serious. Some get caught, some don't get caught. Some cover it up, some don't cover it up. Corruptness is everywhere in college football, and if anyone doesn't think it is, they have their head in the sand.
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And as rule changes some past discretions are not even illegal now. At the time that they were they were dealt with harshly. Tattoo gate ring a bell? NIL kind of blew that out of the water. What Micheater has done is a real crime. Not some minor NCAA violation like tattoo gate that wouldn't even be investigated today. The punishment needs to be much worse than what OSU paid in the day.
 
bob99 said:
And as rule changes some past discretions are not even illegal now. At the time that they were they were dealt with harshly. Tattoo gate ring a bell? NIL kind of blew that out of the water. What Micheater has done is a real crime. Not some minor NCAA violation like tattoo gate that wouldn't even be investigated today. The punishment needs to be much worse than what OSU paid in the day.
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I see them as both minor. Stealing signs is done by all including at the high school level. Especially because the no sign stealing in person rule is because some schools didn't have the money to hire a scout/coach to be able to go to stadiums. What a lame excuse for such a ridiculous rule.
 
bkmk1 said:
I see them as both minor. Stealing signs is done by all including at the high school level. Especially because the no sign stealing in person rule is because some schools didn't have the money to hire a scout/coach to be able to go to stadiums. What a lame excuse for such a ridiculous rule.
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But the rules are quite clear and were not open for discussion. A blatant breaking of the rules. Apparently other schools have the integrity not to cheat to that extreme.
 
bkmk1 said:
My point is: he who has not cheated, throw the first rock. Yes, everyone is dropping their rocks.
My point isn't: that it's ok.
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Not a good argument to justify their cheating. You are assuming a ton of teams cheat and it should be a free for all. Look the other way because everyone is doing it. The best cheaters win I guess. If you play that game, and get caught, you should suffer the consequences. If it was Day (and OSU), in the same situation, I feel you would have a whole different feeling on this.
 
bob99 said:
But the rules are quite clear and were not open for discussion. A blatant breaking of the rules. Apparently other schools have the integrity not to cheat to that extreme.
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Or haven't gotten caught. Either way, It's one of those petty rules that needs to be relooked at. But I have made it clear, that if they are found guilty, they should be punished.
 
Gbulldog said:
Not a good argument to justify their cheating. You are assuming a ton of teams cheat and it should be a free for all. Look the other way because everyone is doing it. The best cheaters win I guess. If you play that game, and get caught, you should suffer the consequences. If it was Day (and OSU), in the same situation, I feel you would have a whole different feeling on this.
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I have made my stance very clear.
1. it is a petty rule that needs to be relooked at and probably changed including going to the NFL format of mics in the helmets.
2. I have also made it clear that if they are found guilty, they should be punished.
3. They beat every team on their schedule because they were the better team that day. I am sick and tired of osu fans whining about cheating. If they lost and it was because Michigan stole their signs, too freaking bad. You could have done something like, maybe change your signs. osu fans will forever use that as an excuse for losing. osu lost because Michigan has owned the trenches for 3 straight years. They lost, they lost, they lost. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Maybe it's time to wake up and realize that your coach needs to get a clue and is not on the same level as Harbaugh and Harbaugh's staff.

Good night all.
A. enjoy the cottonelle bowl vs. Missouri.
B. enjoy watching the Rose Bowl.
C. Don't get to mad when Michigan wins the Natty. Keep in mind the NCAA could strip them of it anyways.
 
bkmk1 said:
I have made my stance very clear.
1. it is a petty rule that needs to be relooked at and probably changed including going to the NFL format of mics in the helmets.
2. I have also made it clear that if they are found guilty, they should be punished.
3. They beat every team on their schedule because they were the better team that day. I am sick and tired of osu fans whining about cheating. If they lost and it was because Michigan stole their signs, too freaking bad. You could have done something like, maybe change your signs. osu fans will forever use that as an excuse for losing. osu lost because Michigan has owned the trenches for 3 straight years. They lost, they lost, they lost. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Maybe it's time to wake up and realize that your coach needs to get a clue and is not on the same level as Harbaugh and Harbaugh's staff.

Good night all.
A. enjoy the cottonelle bowl vs. Missouri.
B. enjoy watching the Rose Bowl.
C. Don't get to mad when Michigan wins the Natty. Keep in mind the NCAA could strip them of it anyways.
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I never said OSU lost because of sign stealing. Just pointing out that rules were broken (allegedly) and you're justifying it but saying its petty or everyone's doing it. My original question last week was how would you react if it was the other way around. Thats all I originally asked.
A. I will enjoy the Cotton bowl
B. I will enjoy the Rose Bowl
C. I personally don't think they will win it all. If they do, and the NCAA takes it away, ( I dont think that would happen), Harbaugh will slither away unscathed.
 
bkmk1 said:
I have made my stance very clear.
1. it is a petty rule that needs to be relooked at and probably changed including going to the NFL format of mics in the helmets.
2. I have also made it clear that if they are found guilty, they should be punished.
3. They beat every team on their schedule because they were the better team that day. I am sick and tired of osu fans whining about cheating. If they lost and it was because Michigan stole their signs, too freaking bad. You could have done something like, maybe change your signs. osu fans will forever use that as an excuse for losing. osu lost because Michigan has owned the trenches for 3 straight years. They lost, they lost, they lost. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Maybe it's time to wake up and realize that your coach needs to get a clue and is not on the same level as Harbaugh and Harbaugh's staff.

Good night all.
A. enjoy the cottonelle bowl vs. Missouri.
B. enjoy watching the Rose Bowl.
C. Don't get to mad when Michigan wins the Natty. Keep in mind the NCAA could strip them of it anyways.
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Right, Ohio State should have to spend valuable, limited practice time to change their signals. Do you realize that a single offensive play could have 7 signals? "Owned" in the trenches. That's hilarious. Last year UM had 10 rushing yds in the 1st half. Is that being owned? lol
 
Hammerdrill said:
Right, Ohio State should have to spend valuable, limited practice time to change their signals. Do you realize that a single offensive play could have 7 signals? "Owned" in the trenches. That's hilarious. Last year UM had 10 rushing yds in the 1st half. Is that being owned? lol
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For 3 straight years they have worn down the soft suckeyes. They owned the rushing battle every year, with most of their yards coming in the second half. So yes, they have owned the trenches and are the more physical football team and proved it on the field. 1 team is OL University, the other is WR University. Keep recruiting those WR.
 
bkmk1 said:
For 3 straight years they have worn down the soft suckeyes. They owned the rushing battle every year, with most of their yards coming in the second half. So yes, they have owned the trenches and are the more physical football team and proved it on the field. 1 team is OL University, the other is WR University. Keep recruiting those WR.
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Such a lazy take. They are better coached. The whole "they are more physical" is nonsense. Last year they busted long runs not because they were more physical, but because of our moronic defensive calls/philosophy. And of course UM knowing what was coming because they cheated.
 
Hammerdrill said:
Such a lazy take. They are better coached. The whole "they are more physical" is nonsense. Last year they busted long runs not because they were more physical, but because of our moronic defensive calls/philosophy. And of course UM knowing what was coming because they cheated.
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More physical. The yearly wear them down in the 4th quarter. I know it's a hard pill to swallow. But true.
 
Several things can be true here:
-the rule is severely outdated, as is the lack of helmet technology where teams still use signs
-Michigan broke rules and 'cheated'
-the 'cheating' didn't have nearly as strong an impact as most Buckeye fans on here believe
-teams will change signs/calls/audibles multiple times throughout the season, if they don't their signs will get stolen one way or another
 
adselder09 said:
Several things can be true here:
-the rule is severely outdated, as is the lack of helmet technology where teams still use signs
-Michigan broke rules and 'cheated'
-the 'cheating' didn't have nearly as strong an impact as most Buckeye fans on here believe
-teams will change signs/calls/audibles multiple times throughout the season, if they don't their signs will get stolen one way or another
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adselder09 said:
-teams will change signs/calls/audibles multiple times throughout the season, if they don't their signs will get stolen one way or another
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Do they? I heard one coach say no way, and my son played on 2 different teams in college, they never changed their signs. So unless you have better info than that, I would say teams don't. Keep in mind too that they have limited practice time.
 
Hammerdrill said:
Do they? I heard one coach say no way, and my son played on 2 different teams in college, they never changed their signs. So unless you have better info than that, I would say teams don't. Keep in mind too that they have limited practice time.
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I'm sure it varies by program/coach/system, but as I said if you don't change them, they will be stolen one way or another. I've heard wholesale changing signals, most rotate the 'hot' signal caller if there are multiple guys signing in plays, that's usually done at least once in-game. And then you can change some but not all signals, such as changing them for your 'shot' plays, but keep your base/core concept plays the same. Figure you install during camp in the summer, you can change during your bye week and then again during bowl prep. Hell they might even have different signs from spring ball to camp.
 
Watching CGD and seeing the ESPN segment apologizing for Harbaugh and the Connor Stalions cheating again, and I am STRUGGLING to understand why the question of whether or not Harbaugh was fully cognizant of the three year cheat-scouting matters, AT ALL.

All previous NCAA Football cheaters have been punished, and the question of foreknowledge at the top by Program Head is irrelevant. The Head of the Program is responsible, regardless.

Has this changed ?
 
cabezadecaballo said:
Watching CGD and seeing the ESPN segment apologizing for Harbaugh and the Connor Stalions cheating again, and I am STRUGGLING to understand why the question of whether or not Harbaugh was fully cognizant of the three year cheat-scouting matters, AT ALL.

All previous NCAA Football cheaters have been punished, and the question of foreknowledge at the top by Program Head is irrelevant. The Head of the Program is responsible, regardless.

Has this changed ?
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I guess ESPN wants to reward the scUM campus for helping their Democrat partners get out the vote with same day registration drives and such ?

The death penalty would have been a foregone conclusion if Ryan Day cheated like Harbaugh. Why is Michigan being protected ?
 
bkmk1 said:
I see them as both minor. Stealing signs is done by all including at the high school level. Especially because the no sign stealing in person rule is because some schools didn't have the money to hire a scout/coach to be able to go to stadiums. What a lame excuse for such a ridiculous rule.
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This is not true … there is a difference between picking up some signals based on the DBs hand signals when they change their coverage … many teams can do this based of game video … it is an entirely different thing sending someone to a game and videoing the opponents signals … it is not done … that is crossing the line from getting a legal competitive edge and full blown cheating … this everybody does it just plain BS … others do not do that … total BS!

Even when teams sent scouts to games they were not permitted to film, especially the opponents signs … another BS story … they stopped doing it when the videos could be exchanged by computer … no need to send scouts.
 
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