Memphis Police beating suspect

14Red said:
Ok, now we've got something to go on. I was also going to think there may be mistaken identity? They thought this guy was someone else? I mean again, this simply does not add up. A guy is driving recklessly. It happens, but to pull him over and rip him out of the car, they had to be expecting or planning something else.
I'll be curious to hear more.
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So if it was somebody else, their actions would have been OK with you? WTF.
 
ProV1 said:
So if it was somebody else, their actions would have been OK with you? WTF.
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No, I'm just saying there has been nothing reported as to WHY the police beat this guy up. There had to be something going on.
 
14Red said:
No, I'm just saying there has been nothing reported as to WHY the police beat this guy up. There had to be something going on.
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Yes. They were horrible human beings who have no excuse for their actions no matter who they thought he was.
 
ProV1 said:
Reality is that being a cop is not a great job. In addition to the danger, you get marginal pay, and crap hours. As such, positions get filled with people that the average business would not hire. There is also the worst of the worst which is a population that if not a police officer, they would be more like the criminals than the population they are chartered with protecting.
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I take it you don't personally know many cops if any.
 
ProV1 said:
Reality is that being a cop is not a great job. In addition to the danger, you get marginal pay, and crap hours. As such, positions get filled with people that the average business would not hire. There is also the worst of the worst which is a population that if not a police officer, they would be more like the criminals than the population they are chartered with protecting.
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And yet with all that, thank goodness we have people who want to do this job. I kind of disagree. Most of the cops I know are good people, average people but with a sense of helping and wanting to do the right thing.
I'll say this, we'll find out more when these guys go on trial, but 99% of the time, I'm siding with the cops.
 
winbypin said:
I take it you don't personally know many cops if any.
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I only have one I would consider as personal friend. He is retiring later this year. He is less than impressed with the recruits he has seen over the last 10 years.
 
14Red said:
And yet with all that, thank goodness we have people who want to do this job. I kind of disagree. Most of the cops I know are good people, average people but with a sense of helping and wanting to do the right thing.
I'll say this, we'll find out more when these guys go on trial, but 99% of the time, I'm siding with the cops.
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I would agree that most are good, but the bottom 20% are worse than the bottom 20% in many other professions. It can't be lost on people that a chunck of cops take that job to legally act like a bully.
 
ProV1 said:
I only have one I would consider as personal friend. He is retiring later this year. He is less than impressed with the recruits he has seen over the last 10 years.
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So you really don't have much to base your opinion on. Just what you see in the news.
 
ProV1 said:
I would agree that most are good, but the bottom 20% are worse than the bottom 20% in many other professions. It can't be lost on people that a chunck of cops take that job to legally act like a bully.
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I don't think it's 20%, and you have to understand what these guys and gals deal with in a daily basis, especially in big cities. Can't imagine the goofballs they have to deal with.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
There must be a negative value assigned for it to be an attack. Don’t be absurd.

You seem kind of dumb to me. I’m not talking about values as in social mores, I’m talking about the intrinsic value of something.

All in all, I’m pretty sure I don’t care what you think. You don’t seem like a serious person.
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blah blah blah blah blah you're flailing badly you are hereby dismissed as a bore.
 
Danimal Dan said:
You want to live in a police state where you see cops cracking heads for talking back and I do not. Do you find it curious that no other major country has cops killing citizens on a regular basis? Just comply, so you say, just do what you are told, show your papers and say yes sir. Empowering cops to bust heads as they see fit is dangerous and illegal. By the way, I'm 62 with college degree and successful business...so not some leftie kook. Just a citizen that believes in the Bill of Rights.
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hate to break it to you this way but if you have no money you have no rights.
 
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winbypin said:
You do you. If you want to claim your rights are being violated during an interaction with the police go ahead. Maybe you will get lucky and they will name a city block after you when you're gone.

I will wait until I can get an attorney and audience before the judge to make my case.
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Exactly ...But the repeat offender who is normally who RESISTS ILLEGALLY.....isn't the brightest bulb in the tree, they act too ENTITLED to get arrested looking for the get lottery.
 
14Red said:
I don't think it's 20%, and you have to understand what these guys and gals deal with in a daily basis, especially in big cities. Can't imagine the goofballs they have to deal with.
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Understood. But policing is not attracting the best of the best these days. Lot's of reasons for this but police forces are bing filled today with people who have no business doing the job. Similar concept ... a friend of mine wrote a book on the all volunteer military. The premise is that
our military is entirely too made up of poor kids without better options. That would lead you to believe that the bottom rung of the demographic have no business being in the military. General Dennis Laich will tell you that.

1675191561544.png
 
ProV1 said:
Understood. But policing is not attracting the best of the best these days. Lot's of reasons for this but police forces are bing filled today with people who have no business doing the job. Similar concept ... a friend of mine wrote a book on the all volunteer military. The premise is that
our military is entirely too made up of poor kids without better options. That would lead you to believe that the bottom rung of the demographic have no business being in the military. General Dennis Laich will tell you that.

View attachment 38588
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this has always been the case though.

the New York city draft riots arose because the poor could not afford the commutation fee to avoid being drafted.

1675194611018.png

hasn't it always been the case that the lowest economic class are the ones that enlist or are drafted?

the rich always find a way to avoid military service. they're nobody's fools.

military recruiters main selling point is earning money for college education post service.

Private Bone Spurs being a case in point of the well off finding a way to avoid the military.
 
The response to incidents involving peace officers always garners extreme responses. The actions of a peace officer that result in use of force will always be viewed as wrong or right in the public eye. People in the media that criticize police for their use of force actions are simply backseat drivers and are mostly ignorant.

Demanding a suspect to show his/her hands instantly starts the process of determining whether use of force is necessary. Keeping hands out of sight makes the officer question whether the suspect is concealing any life threatning weapons. The media, government officials, and college professors often do not know the true essence of this question. A peace officer risks his/her life when it comes to use of force, but at the end of the day the officer will choose their life over the suspect's. They have a family to return to, and if this suspect jeopardizes this by threatning their own life, then the officer will use their training to do what is necessary to subdue the suspect.

It cannot be overlooked that media members, government officials, college professors, and community members feel more threatened by their peace officers because there is often a sensationalism of an incident that involves use of force. Any action a peace officer takes is either celebrated or condemned. One day there may be a story about a group of peace officers risking their life for the life of another, then the next day the same department could be criticized for taking the necessary action to subdue a suspect.

As far as the profession goes, there are people that believe if you don't hold a 4 year degree, then you cannot hold a gun. The training a prospective officer must endure is equivalent to that necessary for any profession. Prior to being hired, officers often endure mental as well as their physical training. They must pass BCI/FBI background tests. They must pass exams pertaining to their department. They must serve as officer in training with a tenured officer, who will help determine the officer's readiness. This will also help the officer determine if he/she is mentally/physically prepared for the profession their self.

As there is in any profession, there are employees that become too 'lax about their job and take actions not endorsed by their department, training and profession. Unfortunately, these officers live in the public eye and any action deemed unnecessary diminish the view of the profession. Other professions are not so lucky. An IT engineer, an accountant, a doctorate degree holder, could be fired, but the public will never know about it. In the same aspect, there are officers who condemn certain actions by fellow peace officers, as well as approve.

In today's society, it is more of a crime to support peace officers than to commit an actual crime. So, I dare you, to say something about peace officers in public and see what kind of reaction you get.
 
ProV1 said:
Understood. But policing is not attracting the best of the best these days. Lot's of reasons for this but police forces are bing filled today with people who have no business doing the job. Similar concept ... a friend of mine wrote a book on the all volunteer military. The premise is that
our military is entirely too made up of poor kids without better options. That would lead you to believe that the bottom rung of the demographic have no business being in the military. General Dennis Laich will tell you that.

View attachment 38588
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I've been having trouble finding a book about how the military and police attract rich people, let me know when you find that. It isn't as though you walk into a police station and fill out the application. Its not a job at McDonald's as so many are led to believe it is. Keep watching the media and listening to colleges.
 
ProV1 said:
Reality is that being a cop is not a great job. In addition to the danger, you get marginal pay, and crap hours. As such, positions get filled with people that the average business would not hire. There is also the worst of the worst which is a population that if not a police officer, they would be more like the criminals than the population they are chartered with protecting.
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I tell you what...I don't agree with this at all.

I'm a professional (by education) but I was raised in a blue collar suburb...and I currently live in a cop/fireman neighborhood. They aren't perfect...far from it...and, as I've mentioned in the past, I think they should have a height requirement (to weed out "little man's syndrome"), but...

I know lots of cops, even in a tough city like Cleveland, who CHOSE the job...who prefer it to certain other jobs (maybe even higher on the food chain) that are more mundane (boring, even). It's a very, very interesting job, and frequently a very rewarding job and it attracts SOME great people and SOME who fit your very low impressions, but, overall, I work on the other side of cops in the courtroom but admire MOST of them.

As someone else mentioned, your comment suggests you don't know cops. It sounds cartoonish (your comments)...
 
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LCL said:
The response to incidents involving peace officers always garners extreme responses. The actions of a peace officer that result in use of force will always be viewed as wrong or right in the public eye. People in the media that criticize police for their use of force actions are simply backseat drivers and are mostly ignorant.

Demanding a suspect to show his/her hands instantly starts the process of determining whether use of force is necessary. Keeping hands out of sight makes the officer question whether the suspect is concealing any life threatning weapons. The media, government officials, and college professors often do not know the true essence of this question. A peace officer risks his/her life when it comes to use of force, but at the end of the day the officer will choose their life over the suspect's. They have a family to return to, and if this suspect jeopardizes this by threatning their own life, then the officer will use their training to do what is necessary to subdue the suspect.

It cannot be overlooked that media members, government officials, college professors, and community members feel more threatened by their peace officers because there is often a sensationalism of an incident that involves use of force. Any action a peace officer takes is either celebrated or condemned. One day there may be a story about a group of peace officers risking their life for the life of another, then the next day the same department could be criticized for taking the necessary action to subdue a suspect.

As far as the profession goes, there are people that believe if you don't hold a 4 year degree, then you cannot hold a gun. The training a prospective officer must endure is equivalent to that necessary for any profession. Prior to being hired, officers often endure mental as well as their physical training. They must pass BCI/FBI background tests. They must pass exams pertaining to their department. They must serve as officer in training with a tenured officer, who will help determine the officer's readiness. This will also help the officer determine if he/she is mentally/physically prepared for the profession their self.

As there is in any profession, there are employees that become too 'lax about their job and take actions not endorsed by their department, training and profession. Unfortunately, these officers live in the public eye and any action deemed unnecessary diminish the view of the profession. Other professions are not so lucky. An IT engineer, an accountant, a doctorate degree holder, could be fired, but the public will never know about it. In the same aspect, there are officers who condemn certain actions by fellow peace officers, as well as approve.

In today's society, it is more of a crime to support peace officers than to commit an actual crime. So, I dare you, to say something about peace officers in public and see what kind of reaction you get.
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yeah and then there are plenty of dirtbag liars with personal vendettas.

the good cops cover up for them out of self preservation.
 
ProV1 said:
Exactly what is the appropriate response when your are ripped from your car, beaten, and then pepper sprayed all the while attempting to comply to a barrage of conflicting orders. At some point, self preservation kicks in if you are a normal human being.
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The appropriate response is to comply not struggle as they attempt to cuff you and then take off running.
 
Every profession has its slackers and bad eggs; you don't shut down the entire profession/industry because of it; you don't defund it.

The whole of society has problems right now and it is all due to a decline in morals, values, discipline, respect, manners, and education.
 
Danimal Dan said:
You want to live in a police state where you see cops cracking heads for talking back and I do not. Do you find it curious that no other major country has cops killing citizens on a regular basis? Just comply, so you say, just do what you are told, show your papers and say yes sir. Empowering cops to bust heads as they see fit is dangerous and illegal. By the way, I'm 62 with college degree and successful business...so not some leftie kook. Just a citizen that believes in the Bill of Rights.
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I find it curious that you believe the information from other countries. You have no idea what cops are doing in most of these countries.
 
Head Linesman said:
yeah and then there are plenty of dirtbag liars with personal vendettas.

the good cops cover up for them out of self preservation.
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Are you the dirtbag with a personal vandetta? Or are you just generalizing with the media and universities? I'm confused.
 
ProV1 said:
Reality is that being a cop is not a great job. In addition to the danger, you get marginal pay, and crap hours. As such, positions get filled with people that the average business would not hire. There is also the worst of the worst which is a population that if not a police officer, they would be more like the criminals than the population they are chartered with protecting.
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Denigrating them as evil racist stormtroopers at every turn certainly doesn't help with recruitment or retention.
 
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