McSurley out at Clinton Massie

Casualobserver said:
Gamma,

I am quite certain the district would love for him to continue coaching. (They have publicly said so). The problem is in compensation. The coaching stipend is a small portion of his compensation. Probably not compensatory for the effort considering the many many extra hours put in. The main form of compensation is his teaching salary. Assuming his teaching salary is average, that would be ~$62Kish per year. He has a pension (assuming ~70%) for and additional $45K per year. The coaching stipend Is probably only $6K-$7K. So his current arrangement he is ~$110K in income and doing something he loves for a district that loves him as well. Win/Win.
Take out the teaching salary and Why would he want to stay and put in all the effort for the relatively small coaching Stipend? I do not think there are many that would do that job for such little compensation without the additional and more significant teacher's pay.

I am sure the district will do what they can and McSurley is wise to not react and let it play out. I do not think anyone would expect Dan to do the head coaching job for 10% of what he is making now. It would be nice but not realistic and big kick in the balls to McSurley
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By your numbers, wouldn't his compensation be about 50% of what it is now; not 10%. It's not like he'd lose his pension; just the current teaching salary. He could stay on as a district/building sub and make up some of the difference. Especially now, I see absent teachers all the time and not enough subs to cover the rooms.
 
BigK72 said:
By your numbers, wouldn't his compensation be about 50% of what it is now; not 10%. It's not like he'd lose his pension; just the current teaching salary. He could stay on as a district/building sub and make up some of the difference. Especially now, I see absent teachers all the time and not enough subs to cover the rooms.
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Building sub is a good idea. Teachers are absent often because many districts cap the number sick days..... so when teachers get close to that number, they make sure they take their entire 15 days off per year..... nobody wants to work for free. And some districts allow you to cash in your sick days at retirement, but not 1 for 1. I know a few are now 50%, many are 25% now. So if you have a year or so in sick time saved up by retirement age, just take off sick the entire last year and get your full due sick pay.
 
BigK72 said:
By your numbers, wouldn't his compensation be about 50% of what it is now; not 10%. It's not like he'd lose his pension; just the current teaching salary. He could stay on as a district/building sub and make up some of the difference. Especially now, I see absent teachers all the time and not enough subs to cover the rooms.
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You are right but his pension would be received whether he works or not. The teacher salary and coaching stipend are the only current "earned" income. Today $70K Coaching and not teaching- $7K or 10%. Significant pay cut but McSurley did not rule it out.

I am sure they will be looking at everything like substituting, bond levies, booster funds etc. to try and work something out. CM is probably one of the most fiscally responsible districts to their tax payers and have been very creative to avoid any increased taxes to their landowners. They run lean as they should and have very low administrative costs. I hate to see them in a cash pinch but glad to see them work through the issue in a responsible manner.
 
CMorris_99 said:
IMO this whole situation with the facility and coach mcsurley has been the result of a mismanagement of funds and the lack of a willingness to pass a levy. One levy in 30+ years in this day and age is unheard of. Now that the straps got tightened by rising costs, every penny matters.
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That was my assumption as well. When you start hearing about drastic cuts, coupled with items like the inability to maintain/replace the turf, it sounds as though there has been a mismanagement of the funds. That's causing these drastic measures to be made.
 
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Hope there is a way he continues to coach, lot of respect toward the CM team and community as I have family that lives out that way and has graduated from there. As well as some epic contests against Waverly in the playoffs
 
serpico said:
With all due respect to the teacher/coach in question, he chose to retire. He is already getting compensated for the years he put in. Granted, it’s less than his teacher’s salary, but this is what he signed up for.

There is a damned good coach up this way that retired and works as a sub teacher while retaining his head coaching duties.
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This argument, in my estimation, sums it up perfectly. Let’s not forget he is drawing a full pension and as you said that is for the time he’s put in. I do not begrudge “double dippers” at all. In fact, if the opportunity is available I’m all for it. But you can’t have it both ways and complain when it goes away. 99% of retires are NOT getting a full paycheck AND a full retirement. I think both parties have benefitted mutually over the course of his time there. If one of the parties thinks it’s no longer mutually beneficial then simply part ways and thank each other.
 
Crimson and Black, well put, however it blows me away that a school district would put they're student/athletes in such an unsafe playing environment let alone other schools athletes.
 
covidsucks said:
Crimson and Black, well put, however it blows me away that a school district would put their student/athletes in such an unsafe playing environment let alone other schools athletes.
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I’m surprised that there is no entity or governing body that is charged with making sure young student athletes are playing in safe conditions. I’m also surprised that visiting teams have not made an issue of it. But….. at the end of the day the community needs to step up and pass levies when they are needed. 1 levy in 30 years seems like there is little interest from the community in providing the money needed to run a school district.
 
I've been through this district, extremely rural. The only wealth is large land owning farmers and slumlords in Clarksville and Harveysburg. Very difficult for the district to provide the funds needed for adequate athletic facilities. A friend of mine told me several players suffered season ending injuries.
 
ex_dc_atc said:
That was my assumption as well. When you start hearing about drastic cuts, couple with items like the inability to maintain/replace the turf, it sounds as though there has been a mismanagement of the funds. That's causing these drastic measures to be made.
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Passing one operating levy in 30 years coupled with crazy inflation can lead to cuts being needed. The turf is a bad look, though. That should be planned for.
 
covidsucks said:
I've been through this district, extremely rural. The only wealth is large land owning farmers and slumlords in Clarksville and Harveysburg. Very difficult for the district to provide the funds needed for adequate athletic facilities. A friend of mine told me several players suffered season ending injuries.
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I do agree with the field and facilities needing some attention for sure, however I don't feel like the field was the reason for all 3 acl tears. The 1st acl tear was from being rolled up on in the jamboree game against Xenia. The 3rd one was a absolute nasty shot right on the knee that flipped the RB in a completely over against Dunbar, whole crowd gasped. Not sure about the 2nd one, when our starting RB went to make a cut, he got hit almost the same time (above the waist)? Could of been the turf, maybe not, who knows. However Its absolutely embarrassing for a school that has went to 4 state title games and won 3 of them to in the last 12 years to have these issues. Especially the turf and the seating.

As far as Dan leaving, I think it would be a huge mistake. He started 7 sophomores and is junior heavy on a 12-1 team last year. The next several few years should have a lot of wins. I heard he was looking for 300 wins before he retires, the next few classes should achieve that goal. Id try and take the emotion, pride and ego out of the equation before I made a final decision on this situation. Hopefully CM and Coach Mcsurley work something out to satisfy both parties.

My dad, myself and my son all went through CM, I'm a yes on every CM levy. Very hard to get anything passed through these tight people.
 
Triple Option, well said, however call it like it is "pure greed". The land barons driving around in their 100,000$ trucks and their 1,000,000$ combines allow that district to become impoverished. A buddy of my told me yesterday the track is even to dangerous to have a season. Pretty sad state of affair at that district.
 
triple option said:
I do agree with the field and facilities needing some attention for sure, however I don't feel like the field was the reason for all 3 acl tears. The 1st acl tear was from being rolled up on in the jamboree game against Xenia. The 3rd one was a absolute nasty shot right on the knee that flipped the RB in a completely over against Dunbar, whole crowd gasped. Not sure about the 2nd one, when our starting RB went to make a cut, he got hit almost the same time (above the waist)? Could of been the turf, maybe not, who knows. However Its absolutely embarrassing for a school that has went to 4 state title games and won 3 of them to in the last 12 years to have these issues. Especially the turf and the seating.

As far as Dan leaving, I think it would be a huge mistake. He started 7 sophomores and is junior heavy on a 12-1 team last year. The next several few years should have a lot of wins. I heard he was looking for 300 wins before he retires, the next few classes should achieve that goal. Id try and take the emotion, pride and ego out of the equation before I made a final decision on this situation. Hopefully CM and Coach Mcsurley work something out to satisfy both parties.

My dad, myself and my son all went through CM, I'm a yes on every CM levy. Very hard to get anything passed through these tight people.
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What are the reasons why folks are voting no on these levy’s? Are they going down by large margins or are they close? Football is huge in that community. Normally communities with great programs rally around what they are most proud of and pass levies. Public schools are the face of their communities. I can understand voting against levies when districts have shown to mishandle funds and spend irrationally. Young families gravitate to places first and foremost that have quality schools. Vote yes for goodness sakes.
 
Crimson and Black said:
What are the reasons why folks are voting no on these levy’s? Are they going down by large margins or are they close? Football is huge in that community. Normally communities with great programs rally around what they are most proud of and pass levies. Public schools are the face of their communities. I can understand voting against levies when districts have shown to mishandle funds and spend irrationally. Young families gravitate to places first and foremost that have quality schools. Vote yes for goodness sakes.
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I can't speak for CM specifically, but the reason most levies go down is just plain affordability. Everything has been going upfor decades except for people's paychecks.
 
covidsucks said:
Triple Option, well said, however call it like it is "pure greed". The land barons driving around in their 100,000$ trucks and their 1,000,000$ combines allow that district to become impoverished. A buddy of my told me yesterday the track is even to dangerous to have a season. Pretty sad state of affair at that district.
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What? Define dangerous. Not questioning your information but curious to what dangerous is concerning the track.
 
cincifbfan said:
I can't speak for CM specifically, but the reason most levies go down is just plain affordability. Everything has been going upfor decades except for people's paychecks.
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I get what you are saying and everyone is in a crunch, especially when voting on levies but right now everything sounds to be doom and gloom in the CM district. I pray that is not the case.
 
Flevans said:
Passing one operating levy in 30 years coupled with crazy inflation can lead to cuts being needed. The turf is a bad look, though. That should be planned for.
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The BOE/Former Super are to blame for not having any sort of plan to replace the turf/track.
Gamma Gobbler said:
What? Define dangerous. Not questioning your information but curious to what dangerous is concerning the track.
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I've been told its simply falling a part. The rubber surface is coming off in chunks. I do not believe they have host meets for 1-2 seasons.
 
Crimson and Black said:
I’m surprised that there is no entity or governing body that is charged with making sure young student athletes are playing in safe conditions. I’m also surprised that visiting teams have not made an issue of it. But….. at the end of the day the community needs to step up and pass levies when they are needed. 1 levy in 30 years seems like there is little interest from the community in providing the money needed to run a school district.
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Could be wrong but I think the turf companies come out to fields and do testing each year. The "bounce" test being the one that most seem to care about. I don't actually know if they have the power to say it's unsafe or unplayable. It may just be their "expert opinion" and then it's up for the school to decide.
 
ThursdayAllAmerican said:
Could be wrong but I think the turf companies come out to fields and do testing each year. The "bounce" test being the one that most seem to care about. I don't actually know if they have the power to say it's unsafe or unplayable. It may just be their "expert opinion" and then it's up for the school to decide.
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They come out if the school pays them to come out. I know many schools have never paid for that testing. You are also supposed to get the turf disinfected at least once per year, again, most never do it.
 
cincifbfan said:
They come out if the school pays them to come out. I know many schools have never paid for that testing. You are also supposed to get the turf disinfected at least once per year, again, most never do it.
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I guess that inspection/maintenance is why some turf fields last longer and stay nicer than others?

I've never seen a side by side comparison for turf vs grass in terms of cost over the 10-15 years that a field can last. I assume grass is cheaper, but turf is WAY less work and provides a consistent surface for soccer, football, etc.

I have read the studies coming out about turf and injuries- most are soccer/knee injury related or head injury in all sports. I don't know that there's a study out that compares football knee injuries on turf and on grass.

I can tell you that the footwear has changed drastically. Today's cleats are almost all designed to be on turf and they have more spikes, nubs, points, etc than anything I ever wore. I wore screw-ins on turf/grass, never had an issue with traction but I think the increased surface area that modern cleats have might have something to do with the amount of injuries.

Tackling is also taught differently. To avoid head injuries, football has gone more to the Rugby style tackle, but that also promotes the "gator roll"- another reason why lower body injuries have probably increased.
 
CMorris_99 said:
Not much good going on right now. I live in the district and have for my entire life. Never seen so much negativity around here.
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What if anything are you hearing about the income tax renewal? Is this a motivating factor for people to re-new it or will the negativity cause people to vote it down?
 
serpico said:
Wages are indeed going up.
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Sorry, let me be more clear. Wages have not kept up with the overall prices of living in well over 40 years.

My parents are a great example. While, yes, they are making more than they ever have, and more than they thought they ever would, they are doing worse off now as empty nesters than they were in the 80s with 4 kids at home, putting them through Catholic school. They don't live anywhere close to above their means. But they have pushed back retirement since the cost of living is outrageous compared to wages.
 
covidsucks said:
Triple Option, well said, however call it like it is "pure greed". The land barons driving around in their 100,000$ trucks and their 1,000,000$ combines allow that district to become impoverished. A buddy of my told me yesterday the track is even to dangerous to have a season. Pretty sad state of affair at that district.
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Spot on
 
I could be wrong on this but just something I thought of. Massie can’t offer Dan full time salary due to the reduction in force and I know that compensation has been thrown around a lot. I think one problem too is I believe teachers even if retired, don’t get medical insurance until they reach 65. I could be wrong and someone familiar with STRS might know more. Losing that salary + insurance would be a headache.

I’ve had family graduate from massie and I’ve been a fan from a distance for over a decade now and enjoy going to games, it is such a great atmosphere. I hope they are able to keep him.
 
I would expect the levy to pass but only because it is a renewal. I still feel this way but with all the complaining about how the school operates and all the negative attitudes make me question it. Anyway you look at it, it won’t be enough. There will need to be more funds in the near future and I don’t see it happening. Hopefully I’m wrong. That school is the only thing that community has. Every event worth calling an event is held at that place. Just can’t believe with all of the different functions that go on there that there isn’t more support.
 
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