Had a great lunch today with some of the locals at B&B carry out and was told the athletic department at CM has reached out to local schools to see if CM can play their home football games there this year. Talk about a mess!
McSurley out at Clinton Massie
- Thread starter Irwin20
- Start date
cincifbfan
Well-known member
If CM stayed with natural grass, they wouldn't be in this current situation. And I'm willing to bet there's going to be many more schools over the next 5 or so years in a similar boat.
covidsucks
Moderated User
What's really sad is that no one will be held accountable for the districts miss management over the past ten years. The previous super is at another district and the current BOE is probably just incompetent. It appears that the only individuals that will suffer are the players. Hopefully someone will come in and save the day, however unlikely.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if you haven't passed a levy in forever, is it really mismanagement? I mean how much has the price everything absolutely skyrocketed since the last levy was passed at CM? That amount of money can only go so far until the district suffers.... Now you have big issues with personnel and facilities.
covidsucks
Moderated User
Cinci, don't really think it's the turf and track that is the biggest issue. Because of the total lack of promotion of the previous levy failure. The entire athlete programs are going to be hurt. With no transportation to and from events. The district will suffer participation issues. Not many parents are going leave work early to get their 7th grade daughter to a volleyball game. The kids just won't come out. The lack of foresight and energy in passing a renewal levy is shocking.
The board and administration must be very careful not to ‘promote’ a levy in their official capacities. They can do so individually, but the board or super can’t make proclamations saying ‘Vote Yes’. The Auditor of State has really clamped down on this in recent years.
covidsucks
Moderated User
Maybe not actively promoting. But you could have let the community know the stakes that were going to happen if their levy failed. Now these poor uneducated parents will be financially strapped for the next several years. Don't know what the future looks like for this district and how their going reverse a downward trend. Hopefully at least keep the culture of their football program for a few more years until everything comes crashing down.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
Agreed
covidsucks
Moderated User
I can only imagine a parent leaving work to drive to their 7th grade daughter to New Richmond. The money they will spend on gas for one event would be the cost of passing a renewal. Can't remember the comedians name, but his famous quote "can't fix stupid". I think that defines this district perfectly.
Are you saying that there will be NO transportation to and from events for ALL sports at ALL levels?
It happened in Talawanda (Oxford). I think it started with spring sports not getting transportation (JH/HS). I'm not sure if it spread to fall/winter or not.
This has been done in other districts as a way to force local citizens to support levies. Other cuts include forced early release or late arrival daily and only going to school 6 hours a day, crazy high pay to play fees for sports and clubs, no bussing for any student, closing schools, etc. The state has been cutting its funding for most suburban districts ever since Kasich balanced the budget by gutting education and city funding.
Bellbrook-Sugarcreek district got itself into trouble when the superintendent and some board members used some district funds to promote a levy. Ended up in court with fines and bad publicity
covidsucks
Moderated User
I don't think promoting a levy is advisable, however, informing the community of the cuts that will be made is just common sense. The parents that didn't know the urgency of the matter is pretty incompetent. Now financially their going to be hurt. I would be pretty p$$$ed if I had a Jh girl volleyball or cheerleader.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I feel bad for districts like this, of which I could name at least a handful around here with a similar profile as C-M, that are going to be up a creek without a paddle in 5-10 years and IMO very ripe candidates for consolidation with neighboring districts whether or not their district residents take that potential threat seriously...and the accompanying tax hikes to the rates of those neighboring districts property and income taxes once absorbed by their districts.
Whether it's managing to secure funds for operating expenses or the rare few that haven't been able to modernize their facilities and build newer schools in the last 15-20 years with some state assistance, it's a tremendous uphill battle to pass any type of school levy with a majority to massive majority of district residents being either unwilling to pay or feeling unable to pay for it.
Whether it's managing to secure funds for operating expenses or the rare few that haven't been able to modernize their facilities and build newer schools in the last 15-20 years with some state assistance, it's a tremendous uphill battle to pass any type of school levy with a majority to massive majority of district residents being either unwilling to pay or feeling unable to pay for it.
Every time a district tells the community what will be cut the community says you are threatening us ! Schools are in a no win situation these days. I taught and coached at a great Division 1 school and we had major levy problems in the 1990s. After many failures, the board cut ALL extra curriculars ......not just sports but no busing beyond state requirements, band, all clubs, no prom, etc. At 3:00 the doors were to be locked until school the next day. There was a solid Vote No group in our district, no matter what the Board tried they were against it. Our community suffered a lot. The community raised close to a million dollars pledged to bring these things back and then worked like crazy and the next levy vote passed. Horrible thing to go through, hope your community bands together.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Definitely a no win talking about needed cuts (to help balance the books) in advance.
In districts like this, it seems like at levy time there's usually also a lot of old grievances against admin/former admin that come out of the woodworks...and usually there are a lot of former admin to complain about as relative to being the superintendent, principal, assistant principal, etc., those jobs are lower paying than other districts and are stepping stone positions for 2-3 years for most to get experience before moving on.
In districts like this, it seems like at levy time there's usually also a lot of old grievances against admin/former admin that come out of the woodworks...and usually there are a lot of former admin to complain about as relative to being the superintendent, principal, assistant principal, etc., those jobs are lower paying than other districts and are stepping stone positions for 2-3 years for most to get experience before moving on.
covidsucks
Moderated User
Warrior, totally agree. Schools like CM over the next several years will be in a huge financial bind. Their community will never support any levy. This district ran the easiest levy to pass and it failed. Next fall will be virtually in impossible. If the district wants anything nice for their children, they will privately need to fundraise. It appears that the district is so large that people live in different states.Until someone or group takes leadership of this situation the kids will suffer.
Casualobserver
Member
Clinton Massie has been a good steward of taxpayer funds. With just a cursory look at their financials, they have much lower than average administrative costs per pupil than comparable districts and state averages. Certainly does not look like a wasteful district. It appears to be more a function of costs rising faster than receipts, lower than expected increases due to property revaluation and no growth in enrollment. Like many rural places, the population is aging and land is too expensive to attract young families in large numbers. Landowners without kids do not bode well for levy passage anywhere. With the largest expense being labor (teachers) the district is going through the difficult process of right sizing for district needs and labor contracts are not easy on reductions in force. Usually things are fine when districts and enrollments are increasing. (Better economies of scale make for excess funds for niceties but it is painful to go the other direction. Sometimes it is necessary though and districts will cut the most painful costs for the district prior to reducing headcount.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
I think it's going to me many more districts in the next 10+ years in the same boat. The cost of running schools is crazy.... just the basics like electricity and heating the buildings. Now, curriculum material costs got out of control about 15 years ago and those increases haven't stopped. Greedy corporations have taken over schools with all the testing, curriculum materials, and testing supports. It's a huge racket. Now, we have a teacher and school worker shortage nationwide because we have decided to make all of them do the jobs of about 4-5 different people.
Now, this illustrates a much bigger problem in our country. How much we are taxed, and what we get out of those taxes. As a country, you can only tax the populace so much before they start to fight back. I think we are at that point. I get why people don't vote for tax increases.... there's only so much to go around. The worse culprit is the federal government. Imagine if the US started actually focusing on American citizens? The US gave, yes gave, over 60 billion dollars to foreign nations. Imagine if we invested that money domestically? We wouldn't need nearly as many local levy asks.
But these simple things will never happen because then lawmakers and their cronies wouldn't be able to line their own pockets and waste money at the expense of the public.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
If all of this is true:
* McSurley is out
* School Levy can not get passed, potential cuts in bussing and pay to play could be next move
* Field turf is in need of repair and unusable
* Track is in need of repair and unusable
Clinton Massie could be 5 years away from being a Madison Plains football program.
Hopefully this is not the case but the future appears to be extremely challenging. Good luck to CM.
* McSurley is out
* School Levy can not get passed, potential cuts in bussing and pay to play could be next move
* Field turf is in need of repair and unusable
* Track is in need of repair and unusable
Clinton Massie could be 5 years away from being a Madison Plains football program.
Hopefully this is not the case but the future appears to be extremely challenging. Good luck to CM.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Interestingly, you mention here one of the schools that come to mind when I think of Clinton-Massie. Very, very similar dynamics at play in regards to financial situations and community.
MP had a bond issue for a new school on the March ballot that went down by a 2-1 vote margin. Being a WJ guy, I'm sure you've been out there often...and are well aware that they have just about as bad of facilities as anyone in the vicinity. Income tax RENEWAL levy passed by a single vote a couple years ago. Probably have about an 8-9 year window until that arises again, and it'll be a major struggle for them to pass it again as it currently is.
Forget the football programs squandering away into irrelevance. Push about a decade down the road and I don't see how school districts like these two are going to be able to balance their budgets (and in MP's case, maintain adequate facilities) with the way schools are presently funded and districts being reliant on property and income taxes for local funds.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
Last time I was at a MP basketball game was close to 10 years ago and I thought the gym & school were very run down on the inside back then - I can only imagine what they are like now. The facilities at MP have never been nice.
The people in the MP community and the MP administration has failed the kids there for 30+ years. Nice people but I’d never want my kid to go to MP.
Last edited:
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Yeah the taxpayers are ignorant. How are they (taxpayers) supposed to come up with the money. I worked with a woman from the CM area according to her it is not a wealthy area (putting it politely) if it was the levy would likely pass.
Last edited:
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Highly doubtful.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Personal opinion having been there a handful of times in recent years for basketball...but IMO like the Massie stadium situation discussed here, MP would be playing basketball and volleyball at either their ancient intermediate gym or at another school if an external source really inspected their high school gym. I have zero doubt their single side bleacher set up would get condemned. That gym as is has the worst gym floor I've seen out of schools in the OHC, CBC, and immediate surrounding leagues.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Think you're putting the hammer on the nail with the big local funding problem at a lot of places like this.
Most if not all the wealth is in farmland and associated businesses. Not much wealth outside of those ventures. Farmers want zero to do with increased property taxes. Income taxes do not do well due to having aging populations and a lot of working to lower-middle income earners.
School districts that fit this demographic profile are really going to get fisted in the near future due to the state's refusal to change their (however many times it's been deemed unconstitutional) public school funding formula.
Remember a basically Republican State Supreme Court said the property tax method of school funding was fundamentally unconstitutional. But Governor DeWine and the legislature came up with some half measures and the court bowed to the political pressure and said ok. Now the state is running a surplus in the hundreds of millions and property taxes are failing and schools are edging closer to forced consolidation or other failures.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
DeWine’s son is on that court.