McKinley and the Federal League

exit322

Member
So far this is just proving that Massillon needs to be in the Federal League. Would force everyone else to shape up, would be a clear financial win for each of the other school districts (except GlenOak and McKinley, since they already play), gives everyone a cleaner schedule (even number of FL teams, only 3 unscheduled games instead of 9 for the Tigers)...oh yeah, and no one likes each other...

Just painfully obvious. It'll never happen because everyone's too emotionally hurt by stuff that's happened years and generations in the past, but sometimes the obvious thing doesn't happen. And both sides are worse off for it.
 

Mackinbiner

Well-known member
So far this is just proving that Massillon needs to be in the Federal League. Would force everyone else to shape up, would be a clear financial win for each of the other school districts (except GlenOak and McKinley, since they already play), gives everyone a cleaner schedule (even number of FL teams, only 3 unscheduled games instead of 9 for the Tigers)...oh yeah, and no one likes each other...

Just painfully obvious. It'll never happen because everyone's too emotionally hurt by stuff that's happened years and generations in the past, but sometimes the obvious thing doesn't happen. And both sides are worse off for it.
I see things just the opposite way. To me, this thread proves Massillon should NEVER be in the Federal League. Having to deal with the many fans they have that like to spout off nonsense to cause problems (not just the few we see here) would be counterintuitive to what high school sports are for.

The Federal League is fine just the way it is.
 

y2h

Well-known member
Simple math, mckinley has 150 more boys then the next largest school in the fed, more boys equals more success....
So wait is mckinley past it’s glory days because they have less boys then 20 years ago or bad coaching hires. You guys need to make up your minds here.
Both can be true.

And who cares how many more boys they have than other Fed teams? What does that have to do with playoff games against non Fed teams?
 

MassillonTigers3

Well-known member
At least with the expanded playoffs there will be more opportunities for postseason wins. McK managed two wins this year with the expansion, the first time they’ve won multiple playoff games in the same year in about a decade or more. Perry has been the flag bearer for sure in regards to playoff success but let’s see if they continue in the post Wakefield era.
 

TIGER27

Well-known member
I don’t think it’s a great league, I don’t want to be a member of the league.

I do agree with analytics though. I totally buy into the rankings at Fantastic50. They rank each team in the the state.

In 2019 the last year they did rankings. The Fed finished with

#14 Mckinley
#39 Jackson
#46 Perry
#145 Hoover
#158 Lake
#411 Glenoak

I would say in an average year this is fairly close with GlenOak being an outlier. Jackson overachieved this year but usually Hoover would be comfortably inside the top 100.

The league usually has one top 15 in the state team. Two others in the top 50 and two more in the top 100. A good league not great.

For what it’s worth Massillon finished ranked 5.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Well-known member
I don’t think it’s a great league, I don’t want to be a member of the league.

I do agree with analytics though. I totally buy into the rankings at Fantastic50. They rank each team in the the state.

In 2019 the last year they did rankings. The Fed finished with

#14 Mckinley
#39 Jackson
#46 Perry
#145 Hoover
#158 Lake
#411 Glenoak

I would say in an average year this is fairly close with GlenOak being an outlier. Jackson overachieved this year but usually Hoover would be comfortably inside the top 100.

The league usually has one top 15 in the state team. Two others in the top 50 and two more in the top 100. A good league not great.

For what it’s worth Massillon finished ranked 5.

Well, those rankings don't take into account the consistency of a program, and with Jackson and Perry being ranked that high it doesn't appear they take strength of schedule into account either.
 

MassillonTigers3

Well-known member
I don’t think it’s a great league, I don’t want to be a member of the league.

I do agree with analytics though. I totally buy into the rankings at Fantastic50. They rank each team in the the state.

In 2019 the last year they did rankings. The Fed finished with

#14 Mckinley
#39 Jackson
#46 Perry
#145 Hoover
#158 Lake
#411 Glenoak

I would say in an average year this is fairly close with GlenOak being an outlier. Jackson overachieved this year but usually Hoover would be comfortably inside the top 100.

The league usually has one top 15 in the state team. Two others in the top 50 and two more in the top 100. A good league not great.

For what it’s worth Massillon finished ranked 5.
Massillon wasn’t a “great” team last year but they still beat the three best Fed teams by a margin of 83 points...

Hoover overachieved last year. It had been a about a decade or so since they had won a playoff game until this year and by all accounts the cupboards are bare for the next few years.
Perry has to figure out how to keep the train rolling so to speak without Wakefield.
McK finally got multiple playoff wins in the same year for the first time in a while.
Green...
Glenoak...have they beat a team from Ohio yet?
Lake...haven’t done much lately
Jackson...when is their last playoff win?
 

TIGER27

Well-known member
Massillon wasn’t a “great” team last year but they still beat the three best Fed teams by a margin of 83 points...

Hoover overachieved last year. It had been a about a decade or so since they had won a playoff game until this year and by all accounts the cupboards are bare for the next few years.
Perry has to figure out how to keep the train rolling so to speak without Wakefield.
McK finally got multiple playoff wins in the same year for the first time in a while.
Green...
Glenoak...have they beat a team from Ohio yet?
Lake...haven’t done much lately
Jackson...when is their last playoff win?

I think the Tigers were a great team. Hoban was the only team that out played Massillon.

Massillon embarrassed all three Fed teams. Beat Iggy and LaSalle and lost a weird opener to Ed’s.

I expect the 21 Tigers to be even better.
 

MassillonTigers3

Well-known member
I think the Tigers were a great team. Hoban was the only team that out played Massillon.

Massillon embarrassed all three Fed teams. Beat Iggy and LaSalle and lost a weird opener to Ed’s.

I expect the 21 Tigers to be even better.
Ehh. Massillon was a good team and when clicking they were a VERY good team but not great. Ed’s was down and we still lost, Iggy was down and we damn near lost, Lasalle outplayed us and were without their two best players, Hoban kicked our teeth in.
 

Red-Lep

Well-known member
I just don't understand the Federal league and Massillon. Growing up in the 60's and 70's in Niles, the first thing everyone did was to see what weeks we played Massillon and McKinley because you made sure you were off work or there were no weddings scheduled. We were excited to play those games. Times changed, but I would think a school the same size as the other 7 teams in a local league would have everyone begging to have a team with the tradition of Massillon in their league. Local sport fans and kids are being missing out. Sad
 

Wrestling245

Well-known member
Massillon wasn’t a “great” team last year but they still beat the three best Fed teams by a margin of 83 points...

Hoover overachieved last year. It had been a about a decade or so since they had won a playoff game until this year and by all accounts the cupboards are bare for the next few years.
Perry has to figure out how to keep the train rolling so to speak without Wakefield.
McK finally got multiple playoff wins in the same year for the first time in a while.
Green...
Glenoak...have they beat a team from Ohio yet?
Lake...haven’t done much lately
Jackson...when is their last playoff win?
Lake hasn’t done much lately but it’s still a quality program.. one of the few with a winning record in the playoffs in stark county with multiple state championships appearances and final four appearances. Isn’t that the same amount of success as Massillon right? Both don’t have a state title, both have winning records in the playoffs with multiple final four appearances and a few state title losses, no? 😂🤷🏻‍♂️Hoover also used to be tough. Like I said earlier, the fed ain’t what it used to be, but it was a good league.
 

CantonAnon

Active member
I just don't understand the Federal league and Massillon. Growing up in the 60's and 70's in Niles, the first thing everyone did was to see what weeks we played Massillon and McKinley because you made sure you were off work or there were no weddings scheduled. We were excited to play those games. Times changed, but I would think a school the same size as the other 7 teams in a local league would have everyone begging to have a team with the tradition of Massillon in their league. Local sport fans and kids are being missing out. Sad
If it was that simple, Massillon would be begging to schedule Hoban.
 

MassillonTigers3

Well-known member
Lake hasn’t done much lately but it’s still a quality program.. one of the few with a winning record in the playoffs in stark county with multiple state championships appearances and final four appearances. Isn’t that the same amount of success as Massillon right? Both don’t have a state title, both have winning records in the playoffs with multiple final four appearances and a few state title losses, no? 😂🤷🏻‍♂️Hoover also used to be tough. Like I said earlier, the fed ain’t what it used to be, but it was a good league.
Not a bad program. But like I said they haven’t had a lot of postseason success as of late. Didn’t really have any gripe with Lake but since ya wanna start taking shots...
 

Wrestling245

Well-known member
Massillon is the best program in stark county. The fed USED to be a very good league. And McKinley wouldn’t be any better if they leave the fed because it’s dwindling and dying area. There ya have it folks.
 

exit322

Member
I see things just the opposite way. To me, this thread proves Massillon should NEVER be in the Federal League. Having to deal with the many fans they have that like to spout off nonsense to cause problems (not just the few we see here) would be counterintuitive to what high school sports are for.

The Federal League is fine just the way it is.

I definitely understand this argument.

However, the majority of fans in Massillon and the other schools (I live in Jackson, fwiw) don't feel that way, and recognize the value on both sides (Massillon will eventually force everyone to shape up in football, and their other programs will get a boost by being in a league that's very strong in most other sports). But, it is a vocal minority both places. It's a win-win, but it won't happen, so it's a moot point.
 

CantonKid

Well-known member
Federal League football records w/McKinley as a member 2004-2020

McKinley 84-23
Perry 55-52
Hoover 54-53

All the rest have a losing record.

Plus beat Hoover 10 years in a row.Same goes for Jackson.

Besides Massillon who could go 84-23 in the Fed and beat Hoover 10 years in a row in Stark County?
 

Gbulldog

Active member
Plus beat Hoover 10 years in a row.Same goes for Jackson.

Besides Massillon who could go 84-23 in the Fed and beat Hoover 10 years in a row in Stark County?
Not to sound smart, but was is your point with this? I assume you think McKinley should leave the Fed?
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
Not to sound smart, but was is your point with this? I assume you think McKinley should leave the Fed?

Either Canton is downtrodden and dying as some suggest or the FL is really, really average at best. Or both.

An independent schedule would help them in football but it is overstated. Certainly not enough to justify the added costs and scheduling of other sports.

In a perfect world (ie. a little cooperation) McKinley - like Massillon - should be able to easily schedule other Stark schools in all sports as needed - absent league affiliation. Personally I think it's bs.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
It may be hard for some of us "football heavy" fans to fathom, but high school sports consist of more than football. A school, especially a public school with limited funds, needs to find nearby schools in many sports to fill their schedules. A league provides that. Is it the Fed the Fed of old, no, but it serves a purpose to its member schools. Its much easier and cheaper to send the girls soccer team to Glen Oak than elsewhere. As TigerPaw said, in a perfect world it would be easier.

As for the decline of McKinley, they are in the same boat as many larger city public programs. Looking at the top 10 cities in population in Ohio, not one of them has produced a consistent recent state powerhouse in football. Public powerhouses like Glenville and Warren Harding have suffered the same if not a worse fate than McKinley. The problem would appear to be much more complex than their league or head coach.
 

Lefthook37

Active member
That's like Niles McK, back in the late 50,s an 60,s 70,s they were a state power house I think they had the longest win streak in the state 48 games in a row, then wen the steel jobs dried up the power moved over to Austintown across I76 now there, an have been a just a shadow of what was once a great football program
 

doubtme

Well-known member
I would love to see Massillon back in Division 1. I know it won't happen because of enrollment, but I would love to see that region in the playoffs with them in there
 

Maxie

Well-known member
That's like Niles McK, back in the late 50,s an 60,s 70,s they were a state power house I think they had the longest win streak in the state 48 games in a row, then wen the steel jobs dried up the power moved over to Austintown across I76 now there, an have been a just a shadow of what was once a great football program

Niles was a state power during that era. Massillon broke their 48 game winning streak. That game was played at the Akron Rubber Bowl in 1964 before 30,000+ fans. That Tiger win kept the Massillon 52 winning streak intact. I attended a few Niles-Canton McKinley games throughout the years. The Red Dragons played most of their games on Saturday nights. The AAC was the best football conference, ever.
 
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dopamine

Moderated User
Niles was a state power during that era. Massillon broke their 48 game winning streak. That game was played at the Akron Rubber Bowl before 30,000+ fans. That Tiger win kept the Massillon 52 winning streak intact. I attended a few Niles-Canton McKinley games throughout the years. The Red Dragons played most of their games on the Saturday nights. The AAC was the best football conference, ever.
Thatś true. That was football
 

bootleg

Active member
Agreed - the AAC was the best football conference in Ohio's high school football history.
The Federal League is a respectable all sports league. I for one have never claimed it to be the best conference in Ohio.
As for McKinley, independent is not a better option for all sports or football. The league has honored their week 10 game vs Washington, which still leaves 3 out of conference matchups. Looking at years and years of schedules, there are not many schedules that McK nor Wash played where there is 10 weeks of the top teams around the state. For them both, you can count most years to have 3-4 big games on the schedule. So leaving the league for an independent schedule doesn't mean upgrades in that schedule. Washington proves that yearly with the games they have that are not so "attractive" vs the games that are intriguing. Until there is an obvious better option, I am glad the powers of CCS stay in league.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
Hoban in D1 would be interesting

Ditto LaSalle. Only 2 to have won D2 title past 7 years and regularly compete well vs. D1's. Hoban also has 2 in D3 during that span.

How they have avoided playing each other is unbelievable, except when you consider OHSAA. They won't pair them up in the semis. That would be quite a match up, long overdue, and extreme fan interest. Meanwhile publics have to get past both. Tall order. OHSAA turns a blind eye in that regard. Unless they keep hoping for a title matchup which has never materialized.
 
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