Martin RPI

spirit454 said:
Please provide the link to the statewide coaches poll that had Taft at #1.
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We are talking about seeding so the only coaches vote that matters is the Cincy sectional coaches who voted Taft #1.

The statewide sportswriter poll is terrible and everyone agrees on that, they had Taft #8 in the last poll, 32 positions higher than RPI.

This gets back to our fundamental difference, you believe in everyone in Ohio doing it the same way controlled by a computer, while I believe in local control by the coaches who know the teams.
 
SWOHHoops said:
We are talking about seeding so the only coaches vote that matters is the Cincy sectional coaches who voted Taft #1.

The statewide sportswriter poll is terrible and everyone agrees on that, they had Taft #8 in the last poll, 32 positions higher than RPI.

This gets back to our fundamental difference, you believe in everyone in Ohio doing it the same way controlled by a computer, while I believe in local control by the coaches who know the teams.
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But your statement compares a local pool to a statewide poll. I was trying to help you out because you provide an orange to an apple discussion.

I believe in doing it that same way for everyone to make it similar across the state.
 
spirit454 said:
But your statement compares a local pool to a statewide poll. I was trying to help you out because you provide an orange to an apple discussion.

I believe in doing it that same way for everyone to make it similar across the state.
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I see what you mean, but the spirit (see what I did there 🤣) of my comment is understood
 
spirit454 said:
They say Hell is filled with good intensions. You may mean well but your choice of examples was inaccurate.

Keep thinking statewide.
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Based on last year:

Statewide RPI - everything done the same, but some rankings not close to reality
Local - things done differently and some politics in voting, but seeding closely matches reality

I will take local
 
SWOHHoops said:
Based on last year:

Statewide RPI - everything done the same, but some rankings not close to reality
Local - things done differently and some politics in voting, but seeding closely matches reality

I will take local
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Local cannot match a statewide system. Local events are fun and great for local fans but when dealing with a Statewide tournament we need consistent practices and that what we will be getting. And as the games play on the cream will rise to the top. As it always does regardless of local favorites.
 
I know you disagree but the OHSAA basketball tournament is a local tournament (OHSAA Districts) that feeds teams onto the OHSAA HQ controlled Regional and State tournament. The OHSAA site itself says "The District Athletic Boards conduct sectional and district tournament contests". Each district site manager creates local brackets with the district athletic board. That is why you currently see one area using the RPI and not the whole state, the tournaments and seeding decisions are held at the local level.

Of course things change so in the future it could be the way you want it, just hasn't been for the last few decades.
 
SWOHHoops said:
I know you disagree but the OHSAA basketball tournament is a local tournament (OHSAA Districts) that feeds teams onto the OHSAA HQ controlled Regional and State tournament. The OHSAA site itself says "The District Athletic Boards conduct sectional and district tournament contests". Each district site manager creates local brackets with the district athletic board. That is why you currently see one area using the RPI and not the whole state, the tournaments and seeding decisions are held at the local level.

Of course things change so in the future it could be the way you want it, just hasn't been for the last few decades.
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The ONLY reason the District controls the sectional and district portions of the state's tournament is because the OHSAA allows it. It is still one tournament that recognizes different levels of accomplishment. The OHSAA governs every level of every sport.
 
spirit454 said:
The ONLY reason the District controls the sectional and district portions of the state's tournament is because the OHSAA allows it. It is still one tournament that recognizes different levels of accomplishment. The OHSAA governs every level of every sport.
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I completely agree, OHSAA HQ gives control of the sectional/district tournament to the local level. If OHSAA HQ now says all seeding will be done the same way across Ohio, that will be a change in how the tournament has been administered over the last few decades.

We agree on that, so that makes the OHSAA basketball tournament a local tournament that feeds teams into the centrally controlled Regional/State tournament
 
SWOHHoops said:
I completely agree, OHSAA HQ gives control of the sectional/district tournament to the local level. If OHSAA HQ now says all seeding will be done the same way across Ohio, that will be a change in how the tournament has been administered over the last few decades.

We agree on that, so that makes the OHSAA basketball tournament a local tournament that feeds teams into the centrally controlled Regional/State tournament
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And again, you twist. It is similar to the NCAA tourney. There are local or regional sites but it is still the same tournament leading to a single winner.
 
spirit454 said:
And again, you twist. It is similar to the NCAA tourney. There are local or regional sites but it is still the same tournament leading to a single winner.
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NCAA - HQ tells the local sites who is coming, what the brackets look like and what seed teams are.

OHSAA - HQ delegates all control of the tournament including bracket formation and seeding to the local area until the regional tournament.

Not much to argue here, the sectional/district tournament has always been a locally controlled tournament.
 
SWOHHoops said:
NCAA - HQ tells the local sites who is coming, what the brackets look like and what seed teams are.

OHSAA - HQ delegates all control of the tournament including bracket formation and seeding to the local area until the regional tournament.

Not much to argue here, the sectional/district tournament has always been a locally controlled tournament.
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We agree there is no argument. The NCAA is charge and so is the OHSAA.
 
SWOHHoops said:
Completely agree, and in all team sports, except football, the OHSAA delegates their authority to the local districts to create and run local tournaments.
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When asking who is in charge, who do you buy the ticket from? We can turn this any way we want but the bottom line is the OHSAA is in charge and they have allowed things to change and become different depending on different ideas. Now they are looking to make things a little more common in the process. That's all they are doing, it's not major.
 
spirit454 said:
When asking who is in charge, who do you buy the ticket from? We can turn this any way we want but the bottom line is the OHSAA is in charge and they have allowed things to change and become different depending on different ideas. Now they are looking to make things a little more common in the process. That's all they are doing, it's not major.
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It took a whole page of posts but you finally admit you agree with me, you just said it differently. OHSAA controls the tournament and has delegated it (brackets, schedules, seeding) to the locals and allowed it to be a local tournament. They may now be taking some central control over it with this new idea, which is a huge change from the way they have done things.
 
SWOHHoops said:
It took a whole page of posts but you finally admit you agree with me, you just said it differently. OHSAA controls the tournament and has delegated it (brackets, schedules, seeding) to the locals and allowed it to be a local tournament. They may now be taking some central control over it with this new idea, which is a huge change from the way they have done things.
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Again, you twist. Since the first post I have tried to tell you who is in charge and you denied it. Do not mistake the ability to make some decisions as being in charge. Again, who sells the tickets? that is the person in charge, in this case.
 
spirit454 said:
Again, you twist. Since the first post I have tried to tell you who is in charge and you denied it. Do not mistake the ability to make some decisions as being in charge. Again, who sells the tickets? that is the person in charge, in this case.
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This thread is about using RPI for seeding...true

You said OHSAA controls the tournament...true

I said OHSAA delegates the control of sectional/district tournament to local districts who control it...true

I said taking control of the seeding centrally instead of locally would be a big change from the past few decades...true
 
SWOHHoops said:
This thread is about using RPI for seeding...true

You said OHSAA controls the tournament...true

I said OHSAA delegates the control of sectional/district tournament to local districts who control it...true

I said taking control of the seeding centrally instead of locally would be a big change from the past few decades...true
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That is a much more simple statement than this twist...

SWOHHoops said:
I know you disagree but the OHSAA basketball tournament is a local tournament (OHSAA Districts) that feeds teams onto the OHSAA HQ controlled Regional and State tournament. The OHSAA site itself says "The District Athletic Boards conduct sectional and district tournament contests". Each district site manager creates local brackets with the district athletic board.
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I never challenged who was overseeing the steps, only your implication of who was in charge.
 
Hback said:
Look up the definition "Sample Size".

Same reason why CFP rankings don't come out until Week 9.
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I get sample size, but they are essentially power rankings that change daily. It's not that hard to update i wouldn't think. Do the coaches actually like that voting isn't in their hands anymore or do they favor it? Do we know?
 
OhioBBLines said:
I get sample size, but they are essentially power rankings that change daily. It's not that hard to update i wouldn't think. Do the coaches actually like that voting isn't in their hands anymore or do they favor it? Do we know?
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One district's coaches voted to approve it for this season so the answer is the majority of coaches in that district do. Rest of the state remains to be seen.
 
OhioBBLines said:
I get sample size, but they are essentially power rankings that change daily. It's not that hard to update i wouldn't think. Do the coaches actually like that voting isn't in their hands anymore or do they favor it? Do we know?
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This is a test run and the NW coaches voted to try it. The rankings will not begin until after Dec but they will include the entire season of games.
 
SWOHHoops said:
One district's coaches voted to approve it for this season so the answer is the majority of coaches in that district do. Rest of the state remains to be seen.
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Just to be very clear, this has been discussed all over the state and has been found favorable by many in all areas. The NW coaches were given a survey asking if they would be interested in a pilot run for a single season to see how it went and a large majority of coaches voted in favor of this.
 
spirit454 said:
That is a much more simple statement than this twist...


I never challenged who was overseeing the steps, only your implication of who was in charge.
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I 100% stand by the statement that the local districts control the sectional/district tournament. The OHSAA oversees it, but day-to-day control of the sectional tournament is in the hands of the district.

The OHSAA sends out a sectional/district tournament manual with general state-wide tournament regulations to follow. They defer on many aspects to the district boards..."Seed and placement procedures are unique to Each Athletic District so make sure you are familiar with your District’s procedures."
 
SWOHHoops said:
I 100% stand by the statement that the local districts control the sectional/district tournament. The OHSAA oversees it, but day-to-day control of the sectional tournament is in the hands of the district.

The OHSAA sends out a sectional/district tournament manual with general state-wide tournament regulations to follow. They defer on many aspects to the district boards..."Seed and placement procedures are unique to Each Athletic District so make sure you are familiar with your District’s procedures."
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Day to day control is given to the district by OHSAA is the way I have been saying it.
 
The NWDAB approved it as a one-year pilot for seeding purposes by a 6-2 vote. Interesting is that one of the two "no" votes was a principal/athletic director who also serves as the school's boys varsity basketball coach. Coaches will still have the choice of when to play and where to play which I believe was the key to getting it approved.

For those not familiar with NW Ohio, all D1 teams (19 teams for '23) are seeded together covering 2 districts (4 sectional sites). In D2, D3, and D4, teams are seeded by district (12-14 teams per) with two sectional sites per district.

If you compared the last year's seeding by the coaches to the RPI rankings at the time of the draw, there were differences but not huge discrepancies. Granted, there wasn't a Taft or Lutheran East in NW Ohio. The formula to be used this season is much improved imo with the addition of the SOS component and the elimination of the L1 calculation. Time will tell.
 
D1nwobb said:
The NWDAB approved it as a one-year pilot for seeding purposes by a 6-2 vote. Interesting is that one of the two "no" votes was a principal/athletic director who also serves as the school's boys varsity basketball coach. Coaches will still have the choice of when to play and where to play which I believe was the key to getting it approved.

For those not familiar with NW Ohio, all D1 teams (19 teams for '23) are seeded together covering 2 districts (4 sectional sites). In D2, D3, and D4, teams are seeded by district (12-14 teams per) with two sectional sites per district.

If you compared the last year's seeding by the coaches to the RPI rankings at the time of the draw, there were differences but not huge discrepancies. Granted, there wasn't a Taft or Lutheran East in NW Ohio. The formula to be used this season is much improved imo with the addition of the SOS component and the elimination of the L1 calculation. Time will tell.
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I think this is a good step, we will see how the sos component impacts situations like Taft last year. I hope the seeding closely matches reality.
 
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