Marion Local Renovating Football Field

serpico

Well-known member
To me grass fields are a waste of money anymore. I get it, the turf isn’t natural and there’s something to be said for that….but the turf just gives so many options.
Yes, one option is to pay around $1 million to put turf in, and another is to re-do the turf in 10-12 years for another ~$500K.
 

Bless Em All

Well-known member
I think football was designed to be played on natural grass. Turf is costly and takes away the natural elements playing into the game.
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Well-known member
Stay with a grass field. The field turf is way better than the old astroturf but it still has more injuries than grass.

Regarding hosting playoff games, the ML parents, booster, alumni will be at a ML playoff game one night and would prefer to go & watch a playoff game the other night.

As one said earlier, turf only makes sense if a school is landlocked and has to use the field for multiple sports.
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
Being a small school, the move to a turf field and not multiple fields for practice and other sports (t&f, etc) as not a knee jerk decision.


Turf in the long run is cheaper than well maintained grass but most small schools don't maintain their fields any more than maybe rolling it in the spring and mowing it and laying down a light chalk spray paint for the lines once or twice a fall.

They also factor in the landscaping costs as part of the buildings general costs and don't see equipment usage for sports fields as an additional cost to their regular lawn care. Things like the tractors, fuel, seed, bagging (if that's a thing done), weeding/spraying (amazing how many grass fields are mostly weeds), are just co-opted from the general budget while the turf field is it's own thing usually funded by donations or some type of capital project.

In the end the big selling point is using the big stadium that costs a lot of money far more often than you could with grass. Instead of secondary fields and stands.

The big issue will be if they fund the replacement or you see the flattened black tinged turf way beyond its useful life not getting replaced.
 

bucksman

Moderator
If you don't have soccer and/or lacrosse, or have a dedicated game field to them, and have a dedicated space to practice football -- then going grass on the game field (football stadium) is the proper move.

The push toward artificial turf has been due to having multiple levels of multiple sports (with both genders for soccer) on the game field in the fall
 

BT17

Member
Turf in the long run is cheaper than well maintained grass

There are many benefits to turf, but cost effectiveness is not one of them. No grass field anywhere costs $1.5 million (install and replacement of a turf field, not counting any repair or maintenance) to maintain for 10 years.
 

bigkat

Well-known member
Being a small school, the move to a turf field and not multiple fields for practice and other sports (t&f, etc) as not a knee jerk decision.


Turf in the long run is cheaper than well maintained grass but most small schools don't maintain their fields any more than maybe rolling it in the spring and mowing it and laying down a light chalk spray paint for the lines once or twice a fall.

They also factor in the landscaping costs as part of the buildings general costs and don't see equipment usage for sports fields as an additional cost to their regular lawn care. Things like the tractors, fuel, seed, bagging (if that's a thing done), weeding/spraying (amazing how many grass fields are mostly weeds), are just co-opted from the general budget while the turf field is it's own thing usually funded by donations or some type of capital project.

In the end the big selling point is using the big stadium that costs a lot of money far more often than you could with grass. Instead of secondary fields and stands.

The big issue will be if they fund the replacement or you see the flattened black tinged turf way beyond its useful life not getting replaced.
i don't think all those things add up to $750,000-1 million dollars.... which it costs to put turf down
 

doubtme

Well-known member
i don't think all those things add up to $750,000-1 million dollars.... which it costs to put turf down
why not put in a request to the school if you live a community (that is thinking of going to turf) to see that total costs for maitenence of the grass field over the life span of what the turf field will cost. Its really the only way to determine which one is better financially if we are just looking at costs overall.
 
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bigkat

Well-known member
why not put in a request to the school if you live in the community to see that total costs for maitenence of the grass field over the life span of what the turf field will cost. Its really the only way to determine which one is better financially if we are just looking at costs overall.
first of all they don't have a soccer program, and for 3 years as a young pup , i mowed and took care of our field, and a garantee you the costs don't even COMPARE to the $750,000... LOL!!!
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
why not put in a request to the school if you live in the community to see that total costs for maitenence of the grass field over the life span of what the turf field will cost. Its really the only way to determine which one is better financially if we are just looking at costs overall.
I have done such things to multiple schools. Nobody has given me an itemized breakdown. It is either just listed as something like "Stadium costs" which isn't just grass/turf maintenance, or in the school's groundskeeping costs, which is the entire campus.

Most schools (not all) do a terrible job of line-item funding with regards to athletics. I should be able to find out how much each shoulder pad strap cost or helmet snap. But, you would be hard pressed to get that info from an athletic director or treasurer, even with open-records request.
 

doubtme

Well-known member
first of all they don't have a soccer program, and for 3 years as a young pup , i mowed and took care of our field, and a garantee you the costs don't even COMPARE to the $750,000... LOL!!!
haha no doubt I hear ya, but that isn't the case at every school.

I think the turf is likely more convenient than anything. No painting the lines, fertilizing, cutting the grass, dealing with fixing the turf after a muddy game, etc.
 

serpico

Well-known member
I should be able to find out how much each shoulder pad strap cost or helmet snap. But, you would be hard pressed to get that info from an athletic director or treasurer, even with open-records request.
Okay, that’s silly. Why would a school be that detailed in their line item accounting? It’d be like asking the Treasurer for the exact amount spent on Social Studies education for 9th grade students who are on IEPs. Unless a school needs or wants that kind of detail, there’s no benefit to do it.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
Okay, that’s silly. Why would a school be that detailed in their line item accounting? It’d be like asking the Treasurer for the exact amount spent on Social Studies education for 9th grade students who are on IEPs. Unless a school needs or wants that kind of detail, there’s no benefit to do it.
There is and every business should be that detailed. It is #1 for transparency..... the public deserves to know where every single penny is going. It's hard to justify costs for something if you don't know where or why the money is being spent. #2 it is for accountability. You should know if your personnel is spending the money wisely. Are they getting the best bang for their buck? Are they WAY overspending for items that can be easily purchased for way cheaper elsewhere. For instance, if a coach was buying helmet snaps from his buddy that is a supplier, and the cost is 4x the cost it should be, I should be able to find that out and tell that employee he needs to purchase said equipment elsewhere. Also, if there isn't the meticulous detail involved, it's pretty easy to skim from the pot, or adjust the numbers in your benefit.....especially if nobody is checking in on you #3 it is for cost analysis. I know things in schools and in business cost different amounts. For instance, Social Studies is generally going to be one of your cheaper departments to run (to use your example), but if you find out that Social Studies is spending more on educating students with an IEP than the Science Department (typically the most expensive of the "core academic subjects" you need to find out why). You also need to find out through your analysis if programs/products you are using, whether in athletics, academics, or general upkeep, are worth the cost. In other words, can you justify spending X amount of dollars for what you get in return?

To say there is no benefit to this kind of detail is one of the many reasons our education system is broken.
 

bigkat

Well-known member
Okay, that’s silly. Why would a school be that detailed in their line item accounting? It’d be like asking the Treasurer for the exact amount spent on Social Studies education for 9th grade students who are on IEPs. Unless a school needs or wants that kind of detail, there’s no benefit to do it.
actually I think they would have the total cost of maintaining the field, expecially if the guy mowing the FB field is the only thing the guy does...
 

bigkat

Well-known member
There is and every business should be that detailed. It is #1 for transparency..... the public deserves to know where every single penny is going. It's hard to justify costs for something if you don't know where or why the money is being spent. #2 it is for accountability. You should know if your personnel is spending the money wisely. Are they getting the best bang for their buck? Are they WAY overspending for items that can be easily purchased for way cheaper elsewhere. For instance, if a coach was buying helmet snaps from his buddy that is a supplier, and the cost is 4x the cost it should be, I should be able to find that out and tell that employee he needs to purchase said equipment elsewhere. Also, if there isn't the meticulous detail involved, it's pretty easy to skim from the pot, or adjust the numbers in your benefit.....especially if nobody is checking in on you #3 it is for cost analysis. I know things in schools and in business cost different amounts. For instance, Social Studies is generally going to be one of your cheaper departments to run (to use your example), but if you find out that Social Studies is spending more on educating students with an IEP than the Science Department (typically the most expensive of the "core academic subjects" you need to find out why). You also need to find out through your analysis if programs/products you are using, whether in athletics, academics, or general upkeep, are worth the cost. In other words, can you justify spending X amount of dollars for what you get in return?

To say there is no benefit to this kind of detail is one of the many reasons our education system is broken.
yep
 

serpico

Well-known member
actually I think they would have the total cost of maintaining the field, expecially if the guy mowing the FB field is the only thing the guy does...
Right, but that’s likely not the case. You’d have to figure not only hours spent to figure salary, but you’d also have to apportion mower time, maintenance, depreciation, etc to just the football field compared to the other things being mowed. Then there are things like fertilizer - how much did you spend overall and how much went on the football field? Watering costs? Gallons per minute used only on the football field, well or city water, electric used to run the pumps…

I agree that if a school was doing an analysis of whether to turf or grass, you’d need to do studies like these. But in general, back of the envelope math can tell you most of these small schools (especially those without soccer) aren’t going to benefit financially from turf.
 

serpico

Well-known member
There is and every business should be that detailed. It is #1 for transparency..... the public deserves to know where every single penny is going. It's hard to justify costs for something if you don't know where or why the money is being spent. #2 it is for accountability. You should know if your personnel is spending the money wisely. Are they getting the best bang for their buck? Are they WAY overspending for items that can be easily purchased for way cheaper elsewhere. For instance, if a coach was buying helmet snaps from his buddy that is a supplier, and the cost is 4x the cost it should be, I should be able to find that out and tell that employee he needs to purchase said equipment elsewhere. Also, if there isn't the meticulous detail involved, it's pretty easy to skim from the pot, or adjust the numbers in your benefit.....especially if nobody is checking in on you #3 it is for cost analysis. I know things in schools and in business cost different amounts. For instance, Social Studies is generally going to be one of your cheaper departments to run (to use your example), but if you find out that Social Studies is spending more on educating students with an IEP than the Science Department (typically the most expensive of the "core academic subjects" you need to find out why). You also need to find out through your analysis if programs/products you are using, whether in athletics, academics, or general upkeep, are worth the cost. In other words, can you justify spending X amount of dollars for what you get in return?

To say there is no benefit to this kind of detail is one of the many reasons our education system is broken.
We are probably not as far off as it seems here, but the level of detail you are calling for would result in multiple additional assistant treasurers or business managers being needed, and IMO the cost wouldn’t justify the savings.

On your helmet snap example, I get it, but finance offcials aren’t going to demand multiple quotes on small purchases and then compare the quality of various helmet snaps to deem whether or not the additional cost is justified. Do Treasurers have their eyes on purchase orders and invoices? Absolutely, but they simply don’t have the time - or need - to scrutinize everything in that great of detail. At some point you have to trust your people.
 
Pickerington Central - Natural Grass

48 games (girls/boys soccer, JV and Varsity football) in 72 days in the 2020 season. Here is the field for Week One and Week Ten, respectively.

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Every situation/district is unique but, the choice isn't simply between a mud pit and synthetic turf.
 
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