URBANDAWGPOUND
Active member
Thoughts ?
Lancaster at Olentangy Berlin week 5
- Thread starter URBANDAWGPOUND
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The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I’m told @KramericaIndustries will be wearing his “I ? Wing-T” shirt to the game.
KramericaIndustries
Moderated User
Berlin has a good team, but they are still very "D2-ish" in that they are somewhat undersized, especially on D, and don't have much depth, using several 2 way players. The receiving corps is quite talented, but they have struggled getting them the ball with a new starter at QB this year who just doesn't have the skill set needed to run the pro-set offense that they want to run.
Been a bit of a QB controversy because the soph, who runs a lot more, who led them to a 1-loss JV season last year, has been more effective when put in, but he is greatly needed at safety on defense so I think they are trying to get as much out of the sr. qb this year as they can.
LT is an all-state UC commit and they have a pair of tailbacks who run physically. When the other team knows they are running, however, they have been stopped. Liberty was a big wakeup call last week, just extremely big up and down every line and Berlin could not stop them.
My best guess is that Gaels will run the ball pretty well, and the game will come down to how Berlin's passing game executes. It's been everything from miserable, with 2 pick 6s last week, to absolutely unstoppable when they scored 4 of the last 5 possessions in the Orange game.
Been a bit of a QB controversy because the soph, who runs a lot more, who led them to a 1-loss JV season last year, has been more effective when put in, but he is greatly needed at safety on defense so I think they are trying to get as much out of the sr. qb this year as they can.
LT is an all-state UC commit and they have a pair of tailbacks who run physically. When the other team knows they are running, however, they have been stopped. Liberty was a big wakeup call last week, just extremely big up and down every line and Berlin could not stop them.
My best guess is that Gaels will run the ball pretty well, and the game will come down to how Berlin's passing game executes. It's been everything from miserable, with 2 pick 6s last week, to absolutely unstoppable when they scored 4 of the last 5 possessions in the Orange game.
sportfan97
Active member
The Gales are due for another win. Two of their Three losses have been self inflicted in my opinion. Eliminate turnovers and costly penalties and the Gales are sitting at 3-1 right now instead of 1-3.
The Defense for the Gales has played well all year. If the Offense can continue to mix it up with the pass and run I believe they will get similar production as they did against Olentangy two weeks ago.
The Defense for the Gales has played well all year. If the Offense can continue to mix it up with the pass and run I believe they will get similar production as they did against Olentangy two weeks ago.
URBANDAWGPOUND
Active member
I didn't understand how we played our Def Ends in 4 point stances( inside shoulder of their tackle??) all damn night, and that big running back and QB kept getting the corner all night ..they were sealing them to the inside and I was floored on why they didn't stand them up and shoot across and force New Albany to make it flow back to the middle?!!...I will say Lancaster's defense played great the first 3 games but did "not" play well last weekend!! Keep mixing it up and don't be so predictable and this team will finish strong!!! I must say they went shotgun for 2 series last friday night and the success rate was 2/2....two touchdown passes out of the gun which helped Lancaster's QB since for the first time, they split 4 out wide and not just one like always...MIX IT UP!!! You can be very creative out of the wing-t and still go shotgun some and not just the 4th quarter!! Go Gales!!
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
What is the wisdom of the DE's being lined up inside the tackle if the goal is to set the edge? If you just straight bull rush directly lined up (and inside) the tackle, you're engaging with the entire tackle and his center of gravity. Taking on "the full man." If you get out a little further in your alignment, you can attack "half the man." The goal is to NOT get pinned in. There are several different moves the edges can take into the strike zone of the furthest-wide blocker they'd be engaged with (primarily the tackles) when they're leveraged -- but if they're engaged with too much of the blocker then they are toast.
I'm not trying to criticize Urban or the coaches, only addressing the account described. That defensive end alignment, described in the above quote, seems counterintuitive.
URBANDAWGPOUND
Active member
ttt
URBANDAWGPOUND
Active member
ttt
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Given how physically imposing (and quick) Garnes #44 was as a FB, my guess is LHS didn’t want the play turned back inside?
sportfan97
Active member
Just arrived at the stadium 60’minutes prior to kickoff…first impressions is the stadium is subpar for being new. How do you screw up a football stadium in this day and age?
KramericaIndustries
Moderated User
Olentangy schools have a cookie cutter stadium model, they are all exactly the same. We can't all have the historical character Lancaster has.
Perhaps a better question to be asking yourself is, what the hell is that team that Lancaster is fielding?
There's just no polite way to put it, Lancaster is an extremely poor football team. This is probably the worst team Berlin has played outside of Columbus City Schools in the 3+ years of their existence.
When a team gets out to a 28-0 in just over 1 quarter, there's many different ways it can happen. The team behind can make mistakes, pick sixes, give up a KOR, commit horrible penalties. None of that happened here. Berlin flat out beat the snot out of them at all 11 positions every play. Lancaster wasn't making any mistakes, they were just completely overmatched, and I was 100% shocked that it was happening.
Berlin is a slightly above average football team with faults, they are going to get pounded by teams like Liberty and Marysville on their schedule. But against Lancaster, they looked like world beaters. Lancaster blocked nobody, gave up huge holes on D, and had skill players absolutely running circles around them.
4 different Berlin players just outran the entire defense and scored on long 40+ yard TD plays running or passing
Lancaster coaching was absolutely awful, playing man coverage with zero safety help even after 2 of those long TD plays had already happened. How do you not adjust? How many times do your DBs have to get smoked before you make a change?
Said it before and I'll say it again, as fans it astonishes me that you guys put up with having to sit thru watching that incredibly inept and archaic offensive game plan. Can't blame the kids, as soon as they couldn't run, they tried throwing, and since it's not engrained in their system, they execute poorly and throw INTs left and right.
And nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than when chop block calls are made as the kids struggle to unlearn the dirty, finally now illegal, blocking techniques that used to be the core of this system.
I know there are some extremely good ppl in Lancaster, and that's why I just can't believe that y'all continue to tolerate this. You unfortunately are likely to get a running clock put on you in many more games until you start demanding change.
Perhaps a better question to be asking yourself is, what the hell is that team that Lancaster is fielding?
There's just no polite way to put it, Lancaster is an extremely poor football team. This is probably the worst team Berlin has played outside of Columbus City Schools in the 3+ years of their existence.
When a team gets out to a 28-0 in just over 1 quarter, there's many different ways it can happen. The team behind can make mistakes, pick sixes, give up a KOR, commit horrible penalties. None of that happened here. Berlin flat out beat the snot out of them at all 11 positions every play. Lancaster wasn't making any mistakes, they were just completely overmatched, and I was 100% shocked that it was happening.
Berlin is a slightly above average football team with faults, they are going to get pounded by teams like Liberty and Marysville on their schedule. But against Lancaster, they looked like world beaters. Lancaster blocked nobody, gave up huge holes on D, and had skill players absolutely running circles around them.
4 different Berlin players just outran the entire defense and scored on long 40+ yard TD plays running or passing
Lancaster coaching was absolutely awful, playing man coverage with zero safety help even after 2 of those long TD plays had already happened. How do you not adjust? How many times do your DBs have to get smoked before you make a change?
Said it before and I'll say it again, as fans it astonishes me that you guys put up with having to sit thru watching that incredibly inept and archaic offensive game plan. Can't blame the kids, as soon as they couldn't run, they tried throwing, and since it's not engrained in their system, they execute poorly and throw INTs left and right.
And nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than when chop block calls are made as the kids struggle to unlearn the dirty, finally now illegal, blocking techniques that used to be the core of this system.
I know there are some extremely good ppl in Lancaster, and that's why I just can't believe that y'all continue to tolerate this. You unfortunately are likely to get a running clock put on you in many more games until you start demanding change.
URBANDAWGPOUND
Active member
Embarrassing!! You went shotgun last week and looked good doing so .. you did it twice in first half .. first play passes for like 30 yards then the next play bad snap over head and then the coaches totally go away from it and quit on these kids !!! The usual throw the ball under center only on 3rd and long and w one receiver out and not running a route that is even enough to get first down .. they never have enough kids on field or too many and with 2 mins left in half youre down 21 and you sit on the clock and you would be getting the ball start the second half .. plays are getting called in w 5 seconds left on play clock .. the coaches are not helping these kids at all .. only way you will score and have any chance is to go shotgun and split 4 out wide simple as that !! Not saying you will win every game but you give the kids a chance
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
yes, but it's not ideal for there to be a mile distance between the field and stands either! Come on, man. Olentangy has beautiful schools (been inside Liberty and Berlin), but really disappointing facilities on the basis of "viewer friendliness."
I didn't go to this, but this sounds exactly like the Lancaster team that showed up in the scrimmage vs Westerville North. Braves game they looked like they tightened up and improved, kinda fell back to some flatness and sloppiness vs New Albany (bad tackling, kids not rising to the defensive gameplan as a unit.) Jekyll-Hyde team, perhaps, but it really doesn't surprise me to read this just having an idea of what the worst imaginable performance for the Gales would look like -- and how that "worst imaginable" is closer to the mean for them than folks like I would think.
Noted.
Can their line pass block? No, not really. Or my guess is they probably can't beyond five plays. Gales have more than one kid who can consistently get open, create space and thread through a zone? Probably not... they seldom seem to, at least. Guess this is more of a 'chicken or the egg' dilemma: are these personnel 'failures' a product of the coaching staff, or just the talent being super shallow?
Here's a hot take: Gales probably aren't a team that realistically can compete with any good D1 due to its lack of quality*quantity of talent and size; and, apparently, they can't compete with a good D2 team either. Past a certain point, it probably stops being so much of an X's and O's discussion on offense. They're drawn into Region 3, as they should (school size.) There's no real indication they're gonna do anything, there. System be damned. They can get wins against a team suffering a massive drought of experience and size (poor Braves, which has been discussed before plenty) and just bad teams (Newark.) Central Crossing, Groveport, Reynoldsburg? Well, what the hell are those teams anyway?
On things I'm not there to see, like this game and a closer understanding of what goes on in the film room*practice, I defer to those who know the Gales better. Although I largely respect KI on all sorts of matters and topics, I politely disagree on the last part: not a lot of talent that would be considered "above average" to begin with (lack of talent NECESSARY to compete against good OCC teams.) Line's a liability, but is there anyone better and more qualified? Probably not. So, right now I just don't see where a real shift in offensive philosophy (balanced; zone-running and intermediate passing out of the spread) is going to make things better when they probably don't have the necessary tools to make those systems thrive (let alone work.)
sportfan97
Active member
Knowing what I know about the new Head Coach at Lancaster is he holds himself responsible when things aren’t going right and will work harder than anybody to give this team a chance to win.
Was it the offensive/defensive plans the coaches came up with, the players not executing on the field, or lack of in game adjustments? Could be any combination of these or all three of them.
Lancaster has ran the wing-t for longer than any current player on the team has been alive. Heck I’m sure some of the players fathers ran the wing-t while playing at Lancaster. Not sure you can come in and completely change the system right away. Do I want to see better offensive production and mix it up with more passing? Sure I do. The thing we over look is what’s happening at practice that we don’t see? Is this team ready to effectively run a different offense?
I for one am not giving up on this team and think they are still capable of improving and winning some games. All they can do is put this game behind them, burn (or delete) the game film and focus on improving each day in practice.
Was it the offensive/defensive plans the coaches came up with, the players not executing on the field, or lack of in game adjustments? Could be any combination of these or all three of them.
Lancaster has ran the wing-t for longer than any current player on the team has been alive. Heck I’m sure some of the players fathers ran the wing-t while playing at Lancaster. Not sure you can come in and completely change the system right away. Do I want to see better offensive production and mix it up with more passing? Sure I do. The thing we over look is what’s happening at practice that we don’t see? Is this team ready to effectively run a different offense?
I for one am not giving up on this team and think they are still capable of improving and winning some games. All they can do is put this game behind them, burn (or delete) the game film and focus on improving each day in practice.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Classic problem keeps rearing its ugly head, again. A team that is demonstrably not good loses a game they were probably going to lose 95% of the time in a simulation, against a smaller opponent that is both well-coached and has the tools*system necessary to be competitive season-long in their respective OCC and postseason. And by the sounds of it from here and the updates I was receiving, it was a bad game.
Feedback loop: "the system sucks" -> but Lancaster isn't really a good team to begin with (weird how we recognize this on Yappi but literally every media outlet that covers HSFB says otherwise, those numskulls) so their losses... even in the biggest of butt-kicking fashions... play up the breakdowns of how the system sucks -> keep getting caught in the pitfall trap of "well you can't say that the team is bad, you're talking about kids, you can't say that they're slow or not good" that further kills the opportunity to ever consider that the Gales getting their pants pulled down keeps happening because they don't have enough of what it takes to be competitive against 70% of their schedule -> "the system sucks."
I listened to AM820 scoreboard show, again, tonight driving on 33 and of course I hear "and Lancaster is a good team because they were New Albany's closest game so far." I'll read the local fishwrap in the morning, and hear how it was "mistakes" that did the Gales in. If folks would just stop propping the Gales up unreasonably... please??? It's possible to discuss a program in its first-year with some 'kid gloves' that doesn't make the team out to be some "well ya never know with 'them!" type squad. As folks with non-rose colored glasses have been willing to say for what feels like forever, Gales haven't been a typical OCC team in terms of what passes for 'average' and 'above-average' talent, size, physicality and speed -- LET ALONE DEPTH WISE -- across D1 Central Ohio for most of the past decade. This year is no exception. Breaking News: vibrant, densely populated suburbs have the numbers and dedication on the players side -- and the wherewithal on the community side, e.g. coaching staff and program installation all the way down to the youth levels -- to take throngs of kids into the formation of a deep talent pool for the varsity roster hand-over-fist. The exurbs generally do not have these, at least on the consistency basis to be competitive against good suburban competition (see: former OCC Chillicothe, Mt. Vernon; current OCC Delaware, Newark and Lancaster. Marysville also would fit into this most years.)
Winning is infectious, and so is the feeling of defeat. In any community, its easy to resign that defeat to whatever (system, coaching; the weather, the refs) In Lancaster's case, and believe me I get where this comes from because I did my fair share of complaining after the playoff loss to Darby in '15, it's super easy and relatable to just tie it all into 'the system.' Shelf the shortcomings of the program and what's happening on the field onto the coach, because they run the show. I get it. Can't say there's been times in the past where it wasn't justified, because it made sense in some instances to get mad and pissed and disappointed. This year -- guys, Schoonover is invested in the program and wants the team to succeed. We may not agree with everything he does, with what we've got to see on the field. And at the risk of sounding like a blind defendant for him -- hell no, I'm truly not, because one thing I do think is a measure of his coaching will be in a couple years to see if he has a better team on the physicality+line-play+athleticism. Curing the current younger classes into the players necessary to compete and win. That, to me, is a pretty understandable baseline and assessment of what it is to be GOOD in these circumstances of Lancaster playing in the OCC.
Feedback loop: "the system sucks" -> but Lancaster isn't really a good team to begin with (weird how we recognize this on Yappi but literally every media outlet that covers HSFB says otherwise, those numskulls) so their losses... even in the biggest of butt-kicking fashions... play up the breakdowns of how the system sucks -> keep getting caught in the pitfall trap of "well you can't say that the team is bad, you're talking about kids, you can't say that they're slow or not good" that further kills the opportunity to ever consider that the Gales getting their pants pulled down keeps happening because they don't have enough of what it takes to be competitive against 70% of their schedule -> "the system sucks."
I listened to AM820 scoreboard show, again, tonight driving on 33 and of course I hear "and Lancaster is a good team because they were New Albany's closest game so far." I'll read the local fishwrap in the morning, and hear how it was "mistakes" that did the Gales in. If folks would just stop propping the Gales up unreasonably... please??? It's possible to discuss a program in its first-year with some 'kid gloves' that doesn't make the team out to be some "well ya never know with 'them!" type squad. As folks with non-rose colored glasses have been willing to say for what feels like forever, Gales haven't been a typical OCC team in terms of what passes for 'average' and 'above-average' talent, size, physicality and speed -- LET ALONE DEPTH WISE -- across D1 Central Ohio for most of the past decade. This year is no exception. Breaking News: vibrant, densely populated suburbs have the numbers and dedication on the players side -- and the wherewithal on the community side, e.g. coaching staff and program installation all the way down to the youth levels -- to take throngs of kids into the formation of a deep talent pool for the varsity roster hand-over-fist. The exurbs generally do not have these, at least on the consistency basis to be competitive against good suburban competition (see: former OCC Chillicothe, Mt. Vernon; current OCC Delaware, Newark and Lancaster. Marysville also would fit into this most years.)
Winning is infectious, and so is the feeling of defeat. In any community, its easy to resign that defeat to whatever (system, coaching; the weather, the refs) In Lancaster's case, and believe me I get where this comes from because I did my fair share of complaining after the playoff loss to Darby in '15, it's super easy and relatable to just tie it all into 'the system.' Shelf the shortcomings of the program and what's happening on the field onto the coach, because they run the show. I get it. Can't say there's been times in the past where it wasn't justified, because it made sense in some instances to get mad and pissed and disappointed. This year -- guys, Schoonover is invested in the program and wants the team to succeed. We may not agree with everything he does, with what we've got to see on the field. And at the risk of sounding like a blind defendant for him -- hell no, I'm truly not, because one thing I do think is a measure of his coaching will be in a couple years to see if he has a better team on the physicality+line-play+athleticism. Curing the current younger classes into the players necessary to compete and win. That, to me, is a pretty understandable baseline and assessment of what it is to be GOOD in these circumstances of Lancaster playing in the OCC.
KramericaIndustries
Moderated User
You and I both
RE: my last point, certainly a fair question to ask, what system should we switch to? Hopefully any coach suffering thru multiple drive killing 15 yd chop block penalties (FTR these occurred long after the game was out of hand) thinks long and hard about this each time it happens and realizes that ANYTHING would be better, especially if they are going to finally, rightly and justly, enforce rules against dirty and unsafe cut blocking.
lancaster90
Active member
I had to take time to digest what I saw last night. I was very upset with what I saw. I saw a team on Defense that was out of position on too many occasions early in this game. Berlin is a really good team, not sure what happened against Liberty last week but they executed a flawless game plan early and Lancaster in a blink of an eye was down 28 only 17 seconds into the 2nd Qtr. Give a lot credit to these kids they could have folded like a bad poker hand but they fought, played hard and didn't quit.
Offensively, they did move the ball but it didn't show on the scoreboard. How many times were they inside the Berlin 30 and came up with no points. I counted at least 4 that I can remember and when you are down 28, FGs will do you know good when you know you need touchdowns in a comeback. And yes Lancaster was without there primary placekicker last night but the the sophomore Thomas seems to have a strong leg watching him kick before the game.
This has just been a brutal opening 5 games and I know these next five are not going to be easy. The players are banged up and some are playing through some injuries, but that is not an excuse.
Some above have said that this a poor Gales team, record wise and what they showed last night, proves some of these points. Offensive line needs to still be better and tackling needs more improvement. But do have to say this, wouldn't you think Lancaster is a better team than Thomas Worthington, Westland, Grove City, Olentangy Orange, Westerville Central if those had been the opponents. Remember Lancaster only controls the first three weeks of the schedule while the OCC controls weeks 4 and 5 with cross divisional games and in some instances a cross divisional rivalry game. It happens that this year, even with the threat of COVID, some of these teams are having really great seasons so far.
PN 4-1, Marysville 4-0, Olentangy 2-3, New Albany 5-0, and Olentangy Berlin 4-1. If my math is correct that is a combined record of 19-5 and three of those losses are Olentangy's.
The Gales next 5 opponents: Central Crossing 3-2, Groveport 2-3, Reynoldsburg 0-4, Pick Central 4-1, and Newark 0-5. A little easier except Reynoldsburg is probably the best winless team in the state and is very dangerous.
Berlin played a great game and was nearly flawless for the first 13 minutes and congrats to them. They are a very good football team and very much deserved the victory. Be patient, this sophomore class is good and will be much better the next two years. The 8th grade team has some talent as well as numbers since Ewing and Sherman combined. And I have heard that the Youth Football that Lancaster Football team runs has between 230 to 250 kids out and playing football. So be patient with this team moving forward. It will get better. Go Gales and Beat the Comets next week.
Good to Berlin the rest of the way and keep selling Chick-fil-a at your games. That was nice surprise at the concession last night.
Offensively, they did move the ball but it didn't show on the scoreboard. How many times were they inside the Berlin 30 and came up with no points. I counted at least 4 that I can remember and when you are down 28, FGs will do you know good when you know you need touchdowns in a comeback. And yes Lancaster was without there primary placekicker last night but the the sophomore Thomas seems to have a strong leg watching him kick before the game.
This has just been a brutal opening 5 games and I know these next five are not going to be easy. The players are banged up and some are playing through some injuries, but that is not an excuse.
Some above have said that this a poor Gales team, record wise and what they showed last night, proves some of these points. Offensive line needs to still be better and tackling needs more improvement. But do have to say this, wouldn't you think Lancaster is a better team than Thomas Worthington, Westland, Grove City, Olentangy Orange, Westerville Central if those had been the opponents. Remember Lancaster only controls the first three weeks of the schedule while the OCC controls weeks 4 and 5 with cross divisional games and in some instances a cross divisional rivalry game. It happens that this year, even with the threat of COVID, some of these teams are having really great seasons so far.
PN 4-1, Marysville 4-0, Olentangy 2-3, New Albany 5-0, and Olentangy Berlin 4-1. If my math is correct that is a combined record of 19-5 and three of those losses are Olentangy's.
The Gales next 5 opponents: Central Crossing 3-2, Groveport 2-3, Reynoldsburg 0-4, Pick Central 4-1, and Newark 0-5. A little easier except Reynoldsburg is probably the best winless team in the state and is very dangerous.
Berlin played a great game and was nearly flawless for the first 13 minutes and congrats to them. They are a very good football team and very much deserved the victory. Be patient, this sophomore class is good and will be much better the next two years. The 8th grade team has some talent as well as numbers since Ewing and Sherman combined. And I have heard that the Youth Football that Lancaster Football team runs has between 230 to 250 kids out and playing football. So be patient with this team moving forward. It will get better. Go Gales and Beat the Comets next week.
Good to Berlin the rest of the way and keep selling Chick-fil-a at your games. That was nice surprise at the concession last night.