Jim Harbaugh meets with Chargers

Maple_City_Fan said:
They were in the NFL, had nothing more to prove after winning the Natty, went back to NFL.

Because they stood by Stallions, guilty by association?
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Yes. What was Stalions doing with all this information he was accumulating? Who funded his operation? You think he bought his home, paid for game tickets and people to go to the games and record the games on a $55,000 salary and selling used vacuum cleaners from his front porch? The bottom line? The entire Michigan football program is guilty by association. What did the linebacker coach do to get himself fired? Doesn't the linebacker coach answer to the DC and the head coach? Why did the university drop legal actions after the NCAA presented additional evidence to them? You think they self imposed game day suspensions of Harbaugh just to give him a break? Harbaugh was suspended twice during the season for two different infractions. You are in denial. You are smarter than that.
 
"Has Michigan received a notice of allegations?
Nearly one year after Michigan football received a draft notice of allegations (NOA) from the NCAA around alleged Level II recruiting violations − which later spurred a Level I violation against coach Jim Harbaugh directly − the program has officially received an allegation of wrongdoing.Dec 20, 2023

Is the NCAA investigation into Michigan over?
The NCAA is also still in the preliminary stages of a second, separate investigation into the Michigan football program over alleged rules violations pertaining to in-person scouting.Dec 20, 2023"

Stay tuned.
 
For our Michigan fans.
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Cubsandtigers said:
You are correct DC.

If Clink wants out because he got passed over. Is Harbaugh really gutting the program by taking a guy who wanted out anyway?
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Can’t leave if you don’t have an offer. But yeah, bringing in a significant number of staffers is considered gutting the program.
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
They were in the NFL, had nothing more to prove after winning the Natty, went back to NFL.
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Tell me more about Steve Clinkscale, Ben Herbert, Mike Elston’s NFL coaching careers. The internet seems to have missed those chapters in their lives. What NFL teams were they coaching when they were in the NFL prior to winning a natty?

Besides Jesse Minter, Jay Harbs is the only one who spent time in the NFL coaching ranks and he only did that for 2 years in the early 2010s. So much for that narrative, maybe try again?
 
Orin Swift said:
Tell me more about Steve Clinkscale, Ben Herbert, Mike Elston’s NFL coaching careers. The internet seems to have missed those chapters in their lives. What NFL teams were they coaching when they were in the NFL prior to winning a natty?

Besides Jesse Minter, Jay Harbs is the only one who spent time in the NFL coaching ranks and he only did that for 2 years in the early 2010s. So much for that narrative, maybe try again?
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Secondary guys, but ok, you got me there.
 
bob99 said:
No I am not. Check out Alabama baseball coach".Former Alabama coach Brad Bohannon, who was fired in May, failed to participate in the NCAA's investigation into suspicious betting on an Alabama-LSU baseball game on April 28, 2023. The NCAA found that Bohannon violated wagering and ethical conduct rules and received a 15-year show-cause order."
If and when Michigan is found guilty their violation are far greater than what Alabama did. Michigan cheated on the field and their actions had a direct effect on the out come of the games. Moore is the last man standing that apparently had direct involvement in the scandal. It will be left for him and the Michigan program to take the hits the NCAA passes out.
Don't you find it interesting that the coaches that have left, all went to the NFL where the NCAA can't touch them? They can be hit with show cause that will limit their ability to coach in college. The NFL, they can still coach. CYA.
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Direct impact on output of games?

How so?
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
Secondary guys, but ok, you got me there.
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Co-DC, the S&C coach and the DL coach (Michigan’s best position group last year) are not secondary guys.

Of the 4 losses (not counting Minter has he’s the only true NFL guy that left) the easiest to replace is Jay, IMO. Maybe it’s a coincidence he coached positions, in addition to special teams, that had another position coach with a background at his position. Maybe not. But when he coached the TEs, Moore was on staff and had previously coached TEs. This year it was safeties, which both Clinksale and Bellamy have experience coaching. I’m not positive if Michigan had any one on staff with RB experience prior to Hart on staff though, but the RB room wasn’t overly impressive when he coached them either.

That said, and said as an OSU fan who has watched poor ST play the last few years, special teams play can be a killer in close games so I’ll give him credit there.
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
Direct impact on output of games?

How so?
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If you meant out come of games, illegally knowing your opponents signals is a clear advantage. Scores and wins and losses are all impacted. If found guilty, Michigan gained unfair benefits that they didn't earn. Playing in three straight conference games and three straight appearances in the playoffs. Rankings, bowl appearances, recruiting, individual players awards and draft status could have been altered by Michigan's cheating.
 
bob99 said:
If you meant out come of games, illegally knowing your opponents signals is a clear advantage. Scores and wins and losses are all impacted. If found guilty, Michigan gained unfair benefits that they didn't earn. Playing in three straight conference games and three straight appearances in the playoffs. Rankings, bowl appearances, recruiting, individual players awards and draft status could have been altered by Michigan's cheating.
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We saw what Michigan did the last 5 games. And, games are won in the trenches, tough physical Defenses, and a Punishing ground game. Don't let a rogue staffer trying to make a name for himself cloud you on what Michigan would have done regardless.
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
We saw what Michigan did the last 5 games. And, games are won in the trenches, tough physical Defenses, and a Punishing ground game. Don't let a rogue staffer trying to make a name for himself cloud you on what Michigan would have done regardless.
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After two and a half years of cheating and in game interference by a "rogue staffer" anything Michigan accomplished has to be under question. Would they have gotten to the point of Michigan's last 5 games without cheating? You can not say Michigan would have gotten there without cheating since they did get there by cheating.
 
bob99 said:
After two and a half years of cheating and in game interference by a "rogue staffer" anything Michigan accomplished has to be under question. Would they have gotten to the point of Michigan's last 5 games without cheating? You can not say Michigan would have gotten there without cheating since they did get there by cheating.
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Toughness, Stout D, and a Punishing ground game always win, regardless of your clouded view of a rogue staffer.

Do you know what else wins? Seldom turning the ball over, and committing few penalties. I'm not sure how "cheating" helps in this area.

We're talking about a rule even the NCAA doesn't fully endorse/respect. They've even stated there isn't much of an advantage and also know it's about execution or lack of. Puniits have stated this. And of course, the NCAA PRESIDENT has stated Michigan has won fair and square

Cripe, a rule that was applied in 1994 and not due to gamesmanship, but because a few crying babies didn't want to use their resources for an in-game scout. Fast forward to 2021, the NCAA considered scrapping this rule, but the cryers made their voices heard again. Also, a rule allowed in high school and pros. And, who's to say signals can't be stolen in-game?

People will be at peace when they accept 38-3, 3 straight BIG Titles snd CFP, and a Natty. Coaching Staff did what the focus was; to build a culture


To know the game of Football is to understand the game of Football


Hail!
 
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Maple_City_Fan said:
Toughness, Stout D, and a Punishing ground game always win,
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Except the years it didn’t. For example 2018 OSU probably had the toughness but definitely didn’t have a stout D nor a punishing ground game. Michigan, at least going into the game, did. Then Dwayne Haskins flung nearly 400 yards and 6 touchdowns.
 
Orin Swift said:
Except the years it didn’t. For example 2018 OSU probably had the toughness but definitely didn’t have a stout D nor a punishing ground game. Michigan, at least going into the game, did. Then Dwayne Haskins flung nearly 400 yards and 6 touchdowns.
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Don Brown, enough said
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
Toughness, Stout D, and a Punishing ground game always win, regardless of your clouded view of a rogue staffer.
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Rogue staffer with a rogue linebacker coach with a rogue university who self imposed in games suspension for their rogue head coach, who was already under investigation for rules violation, after being presented with more evidence of violations. All true regardless of your clouded view of a school that is imploding as we watch.
Maple_City_Fan said:
Do you know what else wins? Seldom turning the ball over, and committing few penalties. I'm not sure how "cheating" helps in this area.
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Not turning the ball over because you know what the defense is going to do. Not needing to react on defense because you know what the offense is running.

Maple_City_Fan said:
We're talking about a rule even the NCAA doesn't fully endorse/respect. They've even stated there isn't much of an advantage and also know it's about execution or lack of. Puniits have stated this. And of course, the NCAA PRESIDENT has stated Michigan has won fair and square
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They stated that in game filming gives an unfair advantage. It is a rule that has been in place for decades.
. The entire Big 10 has stated Michigan cheated and should be punished. The NCAA PRESIDENT stated "FOR NOW Michigan won fair and square." The president doesn't investigate.
"Throughout the investigation process, confidentiality is important, and the NCAA maintains a strict process to protect the privacy of individuals involved. The goal of NCAA investigations is to uphold the integrity of college athletics and ensure fair play by enforcing rules and holding violators accountable." Stay tuned.
Maple_City_Fan said:
Cripe, a rule that was applied in 1994 and not due to gamesmanship, but because a few crying babies didn't want to use their resources for an in-game scout. Fast forward to 2021, the NCAA considered scrapping this rule, but the cryers made their voices heard again. Also, a rule allowed in high school and pros. And, who's to say signals can't be stolen in-game?
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It is the rule as of today. Tattoo gate wouldn't even be looked at today, but at the time it was a rule and it was enforced.
Why should a team that had to cheat to accomplish anything of note on the field be rewarded for knowingly breaking a rule that has been in place for decades? "Fast forward to 2021, the NCAA considered scrapping this rule." You killed your own argument. 2021. The rule was still enforce and wasn't scrapped. Michigan knew the rule as well as anyone but chose to cheat anyway. Tattoo gate didn't effect the results on the field of play, illegal sign stealing did. OSU faced sanctions and penalties for Tattoo gate. You think Michigan shouldn't be held accountable for a far more serious violation? And with the possibility of being named a repeat offender? That calls for big time punishment.
Maple_City_Fan said:
People will be at peace when they accept 38-3, 3 straight BIG Titles snd CFP, and a Natty. Coaching Staff did what the focus was; to build a culture
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I don't think anyone except Michigans dreamers will accept a culture built on cheating.
 
Orin Swift said:
They won 10 games that year and gave up more than 20 points twice prior to The Game - 21 and 24.
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Yeah, that's an end all, tell all?

It's about matchups which can include Coaching Staffs. What may work against an Indiana or Rutgers doesn't necessarily work against Ohio State. Unless, of course, Ohio State cheated against UM. Should UM hire a PI? At any rate, Don Brown's Defense didn't work against Ohio State in 2018, his Defense didn't work against Ohio State in 2019, and Defense didn't work against ANYBODY in 2020. Hence, his firing and bringing in the Ravens personnel. I believe that has work beautifully the last 3 years

Hail!
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
Yeah, that's an end all, tell all?

It's about matchups which can include Coaching Staffs. What may work against an Indiana or Rutgers doesn't necessarily work against Ohio State. Unless, of course, Ohio State cheated against UM. Should UM hire a PI? At any rate, Don Brown's Defense didn't work against Ohio State in 2018, his Defense didn't work against Ohio State in 2019, and Defense didn't work against ANYBODY in 2020. Hence, his firing and bringing in the Ravens personnel. I believe that has work beautifully the last 3 years

Hail!
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I mean, not allowing over 25 points in 10 consecutive games is objectively good, by any metric or standard, in the modern college football era. Arguing against that is arguing just to argue.

To the first bold, wtf are you talking about?

The second bold is just weird deflection.
 
Orin Swift said:
I mean, not allowing over 25 points in 10 consecutive games is objectively good, by any metric or standard, in the modern college football era. Arguing against that is arguing just to argue.

To the first bold, wtf are you talking about?

The second bold is just weird deflection.
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I just explained what works against others, especially against usually lesser opponents doesn't necessarily work against Ohio State.

1st bold was basically said in jest. If Don Brown was that good but suddenly gives up 62 and 59 against aO$U, Buckeyes had to cheat, no? But, I'll chalk it up to Don Brown not having a clue. He certainly didn't in 2020 and there was no The Game

Bold 2, you don't think Brown being fired and being replaced by Baltimore Ravens personnel didn't help these last 3 years? What weird deflection exist with this comment? Try to follow along.

You know it's arriving.....

Hail!
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
And I've said he was a rogue Staffer trying to make a name for himself. His Michigan Manifesto went out the window
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Well he succeeded in making a name for himself. Say Michigan and the first things that come to mind is cheating and Connor Stalions.
 
Maple_City_Fan said:
Yeah, that's an end all, tell all?

It's about matchups which can include Coaching Staffs. What may work against an Indiana or Rutgers doesn't necessarily work against Ohio State. Unless, of course, Ohio State cheated against UM. Should UM hire a PI? At any rate, Don Brown's Defense didn't work against Ohio State in 2018, his Defense didn't work against Ohio State in 2019, and Defense didn't work against ANYBODY in 2020. Hence, his firing and bringing in the Ravens personnel. I believe that has work beautifully the last 3 years

Hail!
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Today is February 15, 2024. It is still illegal to video tape teams sideline signals.
"The relevant NCAA rule is bylaw 11.6.1, which prohibits “off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season).” The rule was passed in 1994 as a cost-cutting measure designed to promote equity for programs that couldn’t afford to send scouts to other games. The bylaw also prohibits an institution from “employing or paying the expenses of someone else, including professional scouting services, to scout the opponent,” according to the NCAA’s legislative database."
"One source who was briefed on the allegation said Michigan is accused of using a “vast network” to steal opposing teams’ signs. If true, that would be a potential violation of the NCAA rule against in-person scouting and would be adjudicated through the NCAA infractions process."
"The NCAA’s 2023 football rule book prohibits “any attempt to record, either through audio or video means, any signals given by an opposing player, coach or other team personnel.” Using an electronic device to record signals would fall under the category of prohibited field equipment." True Football 101. Stay tuned.
 
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