Is SWBL expanding and adding Wilmington and Clinton Massie?

Bless Em All

Always Watching...
Anderson, DeSales, Western Brown.

however, Clinton Massies culture probably contributes a good bit to their success in the postseason. they have also been their before. how it developed? i’m not sure. seems like they have a very good support system in the Massie district. i think the SWBL adding them will be a positive for everyone involved.
McSurley arrived and started building that program. He's another Jay Niswonger. He's had more success than Jay but he's the same style of coach. The community buying in and folks moving into that area of Clinton county helps.
He could have gone to Bradford and done the same thing. It's the coach, he makes that johnnie and joes better. Period. Natural ability helps but any kid in the right system will flourish.
I'm sure his assistant coaches could coach anywhere.
Speaking from experience, I've seen this at most of the MAC schools, Valley View, Clinton Massie, Tipp City, Milton-Union, Waynesville, where coaching is the difference.
You can have d1 prospects but if they don't have the coaching, they aren't going to reach their potential.
As for Wilmington, they are a former SWBL member, so they might join if they are added to the small school side. Massie is a no-brainer.
I'd like to see them add a really good d5-6 school. Problem is, who would that be?
 

RollingTrain

Well-known member
Oddly enough, didn't they try and non-renew McSurley a while back? I know there was an uproar and he ended up coming back.
 

CMorris_99

Active member
They tried to fire him twice. Once was in 2010 or so and once in the late 90s. Didn’t work out so well for the admins that tried to send him packing. All of them are gone now and it wasn’t on their own terms.
 
They tried to fire him twice. Once was in 2010 or so and once in the late 90s. Didn’t work out so well for the admins that tried to send him packing. All of them are gone now and it wasn’t on their own terms.
Mcsurley didn’t renew his teaching certificate at that time. The administration couldn’t rehire him if he didnt have a teaching certificate.
 

CMorris_99

Active member
Cheeseburger, you are wrong. He had his certificate. He’s never let it expire. It was over a letter of interest saying he wanted to return the following year. It was just a way for a board member to try to get rid of him. Totally informal.

yes. The SWOC is interested but I cannot see them biting on that one. Too much travel and too big of a conference enrollment wise.
 

formercardinal

Active member
Cheeseburger, you are wrong. He had his certificate. He’s never let it expire. It was over a letter of interest saying he wanted to return the following year. It was just a way for a board member to try to get rid of him. Totally informal.

yes. The SWOC is interested but I cannot see them biting on that one. Too much travel and too big of a conference enrollment wise.
I would agree the SWOC is not a good fit in any other sport other than football. SWBL is a good fit for all sports for Massie, will just depend on what the SWBL schools want to do. I would think they would want one more school to come in with Massie.
 

CMorris_99

Active member
I just hope the people in power at massie at least listen to what the SWBL offers. My personal feeling are that they offer a whole lot more than the SBAAC. From competition to media coverage. It’s no secret that I personally can’t stand the SBAAC. CM left once for the SCOL and it made all programs better in my opinion. I realize CM was kind of forced back to the SBAAC.
 

dograt

Well-known member
I would agree the SWOC is not a good fit in any other sport other than football. SWBL is a good fit for all sports for Massie, will just depend on what the SWBL schools want to do. I would think they would want one more school to come in with Massie.
this assumes everyone currently in stays. If maybe Waynesville, Madison, and Carlisle all take their ball and go somewhere else, adding just 1 makes sense. 1 division of CM, BB, VV, Fr, Mon, Oak, BV, Eat.
 

formercardinal

Active member
this assumes everyone currently in stays. If maybe Waynesville, Madison, and Carlisle all take their ball and go somewhere else, adding just 1 makes sense. 1 division of CM, BB, VV, Fr, Mon, Oak, BV, Eat.
Very good point. I can see Carlisle and Madison looking to leave, I don't know about Waynesville. They seem to be growing and in 5-10 years may be a great fit with other SWBL schools. It's going to be an interesting few months for the SWBL!
 
Mcsurley didn’t renew his teaching certificate at that time. The administration couldn’t rehire him if he didnt have a teaching certificate.
BS. It was a lame attempt by someone who didn't know that they didn't know what straw stirs the drink at Clinton-Massie. There have been a few closet "haters" of Coach McSurely over the years that quickly found out how much support he has from the community. For a long time there was a clique of "basketball people" from the old guard at Massie who did not like that Massie had turned into a Football powerhouse. They made several juvenile attempts to get rid of McSurley. Like CMorris said.....they were fairly quickly purged once it came to light.
 

HSFB

Member
Bless em All-- You said McSurley has had more success than Niswonger. How many State Titles do they each have? or State Runner-ups?
 

BigArrrow

Well-known member
I’ve been told Edgewood, Ross, Talawanda, CM and Dayton Christian have all been officially invited to join the SWBL no school has made a decision yet. But the SWOC is also trying to add teams to keep the schools who’ve been invited to the SWBL.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
I’ve been told Edgewood, Ross, Talawanda, CM and Dayton Christian have all been officially invited to join the SWBL no school has made a decision yet. But the SWOC is also trying to add teams to keep the schools who’ve been invited to the SWBL.
dayton christian just wouldn’t make sense. why would they add 5 schools?
 

StateChampion2012

Well-known member
I’ve been told Edgewood, Ross, Talawanda, CM and Dayton Christian have all been officially invited to join the SWBL no school has made a decision yet. But the SWOC is also trying to add teams to keep the schools who’ve been invited to the SWBL.
Dayton Christian?
 

dograt

Well-known member
DC is desperate for a league.
Carlisle and Madison want a smaller school added.
I think it makes sense if the small and large divisions NEVER crossover.
Sounds like the league is trying to keep the small schools around. (If only they had tried that 2 years ago)

I agree that 5 doesn't make sense, and wonder if there's a 6th.
 

cane dad

Member
Cheeseburger, you are wrong. He had his certificate. He’s never let it expire. It was over a letter of interest saying he wanted to return the following year. It was just a way for a board member to try to get rid of him. Totally informal.

yes. The SWOC is interested but I cannot see them biting on that one. Too much travel and too big of a conference enrollment wise.
I was thinking it had something to do with showing interest in the Wilmington College job. When that didn't come together, he went back to the CM job. That's just what I heard.
 

aztecjim

Active member
DC is desperate for a league.
Carlisle and Madison want a smaller school added.
I think it makes sense if the small and large divisions NEVER crossover.
Sounds like the league is trying to keep the small schools around. (If only they had tried that 2 years ago)

I agree that 5 doesn't make sense, and wonder if there's a 6th.
The original "story" was that Cedarville, Greeneview, Dayton Christian, Talawanda, Ross, and "one other" (Edgewood?) was being looked at. Edgewood is almost 100 boys bigger than Franklin, Bellbrook, and Monroe. Cedarville and Greeneview? Nah. Talawanda would be okay except for the travelling. Ross? Not a whole lot better. Dayton Christian? Like someone said they might just want a stable league for all sports.
IMHO Franklin, Bellbrook, and Monroe should try to hook up with Talawanda, Edgewood, Ross, maybe West Carrollton, Miamisburg, someone else and bring back the M-ML.
The remaining SWBL schools bring in C-M and you have a nice eight team league.
 

JackAttack

Active member
The original "story" was that Cedarville, Greeneview, Dayton Christian, Talawanda, Ross, and "one other" (Edgewood?) was being looked at. Edgewood is almost 100 boys bigger than Franklin, Bellbrook, and Monroe. Cedarville and Greeneview? Nah. Talawanda would be okay except for the travelling. Ross? Not a whole lot better. Dayton Christian? Like someone said they might just want a stable league for all sports.
IMHO Franklin, Bellbrook, and Monroe should try to hook up with Talawanda, Edgewood, Ross, maybe West Carrollton, Miamisburg, someone else and bring back the M-ML.
The remaining SWBL schools bring in C-M and you have a nice eight team league.
Those are the same 6 schools I heard about from the "original story" from someone here in Oakwood.

The other schools, Wilmington, CM, and others mentioned, I have only heard about on this thread. Who knows the truth?? I do think things will change in the next few years, but as discussed, it could go any number of ways. Time will tell.
 

formercardinal

Active member
Those are the same 6 schools I heard about from the "original story" from someone here in Oakwood.

The other schools, Wilmington, CM, and others mentioned, I have only heard about on this thread. Who knows the truth?? I do think things will change in the next few years, but as discussed, it could go any number of ways. Time will tell.
How does Oakwood feel about the league? I've never heard opinions from Oakwood, Brookville or Eaton.
 

Bless Em All

Always Watching...
Bless em All-- You said McSurley has had more success than Niswonger. How many State Titles do they each have? or State Runner-ups?
Niswonger has 3 state titles. McSurley has 3, but I feel that the league titles and the wins over big-time teams favors McSurely. Niswonger is prima donna, you can't say too much or his head will explode. 🤣🤣😉
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I'll give this a bump. The other day the topic of conference realignment came up with an acquaintance, and they said they were told by their principal that the SWBL had at least inquired if they'd have any interest (another OHC school not previously mentioned here).

I get the feeling that the SWBL is throwing it at the wall and seeing if they can get anything to stick in regards to drawing in a couple smaller schools.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I'm of the opinion that they really may have only invited five at this time because they are still looking for a 6th. If Dayton Christian is getting invited it's because they'll say yes.

With the smaller schools, there's a major problem with geography having current members west and south of Dayton, and from what has been speculated I'd say some of the more obvious possible targets and better potential fits are OHC schools east of Dayton. A Greeneview or a Greenon (speculated above) probably fits as well as any possible smaller add, but I can't see any of those schools signing up for this with the spread out geography. IMO schools like Madison and Carlisle would be better off trying to find a new league home.

IMO if they are going to add the SWOC schools and Massie, then the 8 or 10 biggest schools should just split off as a separate league.
 

Down The Road

Well-known member
I'm of the opinion that they really may have only invited five at this time because they are still looking for a 6th. If Dayton Christian is getting invited it's because they'll say yes.

With the smaller schools, there's a major problem with geography having current members west and south of Dayton, and from what has been speculated I'd say some of the more obvious possible targets and better potential fits are OHC schools east of Dayton. A Greeneview or a Greenon (speculated above) probably fits as well as any possible smaller add, but I can't see any of those schools signing up for this with the spread out geography. IMO schools like Madison and Carlisle would be better off trying to find a new league home.

IMO if they are going to add the SWOC schools and Massie, then the 8 or 10 biggest schools should just split off as a separate league.

If you can get Greenon have at it. Not totally hating on them they are fine but haven't been a 100% great fit for OHC from day 1 (just my loudmouth opinion)
Greeneview likes being the big kid of the OHC south so whatever they can stay because I like the schools they tie into ( Cedarville & Southeastern)
OHC needs to look east as time goes on anyway!
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
If you can get Greenon have at it. Not totally hating on them they are fine but haven't been a 100% great fit for OHC from day 1 (just my loudmouth opinion)
Greeneview likes being the big kid of the OHC south so whatever they can stay because I like the schools they tie into ( Cedarville & Southeastern)
OHC needs to look east as time goes on anyway!
The OHC is pretty good as currently constructed with several historical tie-ins in both divisions. I know why Greenon joined, but I think it's kind of a clunky fit in terms of overall athletic program when you get beyond football and basketball. IMO their other sports were better off in the CBC. At some point down the road I wouldn't be opposed to Greenon and North Union swapping, with North Union going to the OHC North and bumping Northeastern to the South. It would be very difficult for the OHC to get any more perfect than that.

All sports competition SWBL would probably be an upgrade for a Greenon or a Greeneview if in with Brookville, Madison, Oakwood, etc., but the travel would be much worse than the OHC and outside of maybe Greeneview with Waynesville, there's no real historical tie-ins with any of those smaller SWBL schools. I would hate to see any of the OHC schools take the bait as I see this as being a much less stable long-term situation, and based on who's supposedly been invited I take it that Cedarville and Greeneview have already said no thanks as those two would have been together. There's no way it would just be Greeneview as the 16th school.
 

Down The Road

Well-known member
The OHC is pretty good as currently constructed with several historical tie-ins in both divisions. I know why Greenon joined, but I think it's kind of a clunky fit in terms of overall athletic program when you get beyond football and basketball. IMO their other sports were better off in the CBC. At some point down the road I wouldn't be opposed to Greenon and North Union swapping, with North Union going to the OHC North and bumping Northeastern to the South. It would be very difficult for the OHC to get any more perfect than that.

All sports competition SWBL would probably be an upgrade for a Greenon or a Greeneview if in with Brookville, Madison, Oakwood, etc., but the travel would be much worse than the OHC and outside of maybe Greeneview with Waynesville, there's no real historical tie-ins with any of those smaller SWBL schools. I would hate to see any of the OHC schools take the bait as I see this as being a much less stable long-term situation, and based on who's supposedly been invited I take it that Cedarville and Greeneview have already said no thanks as those two would have been together. There's no way it would just be Greeneview as the 16th school.

Amen to that in bold!
 

shoprat2

Active member
IMHO the OHC should let Greenon go if they want,then Bring in Northwestern as a replacement. I think NW is a better fit in the OHC than the CBC.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
IMHO the OHC should let Greenon go if they want,then Bring in Northwestern as a replacement. I think NW is a better fit in the OHC than the CBC.
From what I've previously heard I don't think Northwestern will ever go to the OHC if there's an opportunity to do so. Same problem that I see Greenon having in regards to overall athletic program and fielding a full slate of teams, i.e. JV, freshman (basketball), and junior high. The CBC is a better top to bottom fit and you're going to end up playing a ton of those teams anyway to fill in your schedules where the OHC falls short. There might be four OHC schools that consistently field all of the sports and levels Northwestern does. That lack of breadth and depth is the only reason I could see Greeneview or Greenon giving any thought at all to the SWBL.
 
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ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
@nwwarrior09 i did hear the same rumor about the SWBL approaching Greenon but it was ultimately decided that the grass wasn’t greener. Waynesville and Brookville maybe make sense to be in a league with but who else? it’s also worth mentioning that the travel is much easier to the SWBL schools, but also much farther. the OHC is also much more stable than the current SWBL set up.

as for Greeneview, no chance they ever leave Cedarville/Southeastern. too much history between those communities, and they wouldn’t give that up even if it was the right move. the travel would be just as far for Greeneview in the SWBL as it would be for Greenon.

the OHC/CBC schools will realign within the next decade or two. i highly doubt it’s with the SWBL unless the OHC poaches Waynesville/East Clinton as a pair to create a KTC remake (which i like the idea, but don’t see happening). Greenon isn’t going back to the CBC unless the travel is a lot better for them.
 
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