If Russia invades Ukraine pt 2

OhioBobcatFan06 said:
Obviously they are on drugs...


www.insider.com

A Ukrainian soldier wondered if the Russians advancing on Bakhmut are on drugs: 'Otherwise, how can they go to certain death?'

No evidence has emerged that Russia or the Wagner Group have given its soldiers drugs. But it's not the first time Ukrainian soldiers have wondered about it.
www.insider.com www.insider.com
Amazing how few people realize how big a factor drug use has been over the course of history.

It was rumored the Vikings had a halucigan that could turn them "bezerk"

Every solider in WW2 was on amphetamines

Find me a war where drug use wasn't rampant
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There needs to be neutral observations. Don't know if it's possible.
 
Cubsandtigers said:
If I’m not mistaken this is when Russia does its annual conscription. Unlike here there is mandatory service in Russia. I think the biggest difference is that they increased the number per year to compensate for the war.

You know it’s not like Ukraine isn’t conducting mobilization themselves. There isn’t some high ground in manpower that Ukraine stands atop. The acquisition of manpower just looks different. In Russia they hold drives like this that are more formal in nature.

In Ukraine they hand out draft notices in bars and on the street daily. Not infrequently you will get your notice and then placed in a car on the spot. Not very unusual in the east to be “drafted” and be at the front line by the end of the week.
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One of my progenitors moved his family from Germany to Hungary to find work as a stone mason, and after a few years was forcibly conscripted by the Hunkys to fight Russian invaders, was wounded and captured, marched to Siberia, and was a slave in a Russian work camp for over seven years before he was able to escape. Sounds like not much has changed in 120 years.
 
OhioBobcatFan06 said:
Obviously they are on drugs...


www.insider.com

A Ukrainian soldier wondered if the Russians advancing on Bakhmut are on drugs: 'Otherwise, how can they go to certain death?'

No evidence has emerged that Russia or the Wagner Group have given its soldiers drugs. But it's not the first time Ukrainian soldiers have wondered about it.
www.insider.com www.insider.com
Amazing how few people realize how big a factor drug use has been over the course of history.

It was rumored the Vikings had a halucigan that could turn them "bezerk"

Every solider in WW2 was on amphetamines

Find me a war where drug use wasn't rampant
Click to expand...
The Berzerkers were early on PCP, but they called it Valhalla Dust, instead.
 
chs1971 said:
If Putin really is the evil despot many claim he is, just like Stalin he won't care how many Russians die in this war against the west.

Russia has more than triple the population of Ukraine. Ukraine will be consumed by a war of attrition.

How many millions will die, and for what?
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Russia has an obscenely high tolerance for casualties. But they grabbed some Uki breeding females right out of the chute, didn't they ?
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
“If Putin is really is the evil deposot….” Are you in his Christmas Card mailing list?

For Ukraine the ‘for what’ to fight could be filled by the 16,000+ children Russia has taken from the Ukraine and places with in Russian rehabilitation centers or with Russian families.

Once/if Russia has to start recruiting from its major cities instead from primarily the poor rural areas - I guess we would see just how much fight is in the Russians.

The for what: Because of 200,000 + dead Russian & Wagner military soldiers, 2,500 + destroyed Russian tanks, hundreds of planes & helicopters destroyed, the prized Russian cruiser at the bottom of the Black Sea, 10+ dead Russian Generals…..I’d say the world & NATO are safer today than they were in February 2022.
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“I hate Putin more than you do, so I am more virtuous than you are.”

Are you 8 years old ?
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
Agree to disagree about Putin being a threat before February 2022 but I think we can agree the Russian army is of little threat to US/NATO at this point in time thanks to the things I mention earlier.
Indiandad said:
What does his army size have to do with using nukes?
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That is my point when Putin feel he has no chance and all is lost he will push the button and the fact that his military is no threat his nukes are.
 
19AL63 said:
That is my point when Putin feel he has no chance and all is lost he will push the button and the fact that his military is no threat his nukes are.
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So how would you confront Putin? Limited responses, giving stern objections to his actions, asking kindly, what? Putin could feel threaten by someone simply objecting to something he has done. Where the line is crossed for Putin to push the button is unknown until he might (hopefully never) do so. At what point do you respond to Putin and at what level?
 
19AL63 said:
That is my point when Putin feel he has no chance and all is lost he will push the button and the fact that his military is no threat his nukes are.
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All is not lost if he's expelled from Ukraine. It would be a last resort if Russia was invaded and facing downfall. He's not ending the world over a failed Ukrainian adventure.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
So how would you confront Putin? Limited responses, giving stern objections to his actions, asking kindly, what? Putin could feel threaten by someone simply objecting to something he has done. Where the line is crossed for Putin to push the button is unknown until he might (hopefully never) do so. At what point do you respond to Putin and at what level?
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Depends on the goal. If the goal is to save Ukraine from Russia then we should be doing more then we're doing. Of course that risks escalating into WW3 and devastation of a kind that makes WW2 look like a skirmish. The ONLY justification for this is if you believe that Russia's invasion of Ukraine represents an existential threat to the US. IMO it does not.

If the goal is to prevent Putin from going beyond Ukraine and invading a NATO country you loudly remind him that attacking one NATO country is an attack on all NATO country's. And you reinforce that with an influx of military assets into NATO country's bordering Ukraine and Russia. Military exercises might be a good idea to go along with beefing up forward deployed forces. Of course this also carries risk but much lower risk then actively trying to beat Russia in Ukraine.
 
y2h said:
All is not lost if he's expelled from Ukraine. It would be a last resort if Russia was invaded and facing downfall. He's not ending the world over a failed Ukrainian adventure.
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I suspect Putin would employ nukes as a last resort to prevent his being expelled from Ukraine. And he would use small tactical battlefield nukes NOT strategic ballistic missile tipped nukes. Russian military doctrine does not accept that the limited use of battlefield nukes will lead to a full scale world wide nuclear war. And this is where a series of miscalculations and bad assumptions does in fact end the world as we know it.
 
lotr10 said:
I suspect Putin would employ nukes as a last resort to prevent his being expelled from Ukraine. And he would use small tactical battlefield nukes NOT strategic ballistic missile tipped nukes. Russian military doctrine does not accept that the limited use of battlefield nukes will lead to a full scale world wide nuclear war. And this is where a series of miscalculations and bad assumptions does in fact end the world as we know it.
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He's a brutal tyrant. He ain't crazy. He's at an age when legacy matters. Making Moscow glow in the dark isn't good for a legacy. He can survive defeat in Ukraine, wars are won and lost all the time. He won't survive destroying the motherland.

If we were talking about the wack jobs in NK or Iran I'd concede the point. Putin isn't that.
 
y2h said:
He's a brutal tyrant. He ain't crazy. He's at an age when legacy matters. Making Moscow glow in the dark isn't good for a legacy. He can survive defeat in Ukraine, wars are won and lost all the time. He won't survive destroying the motherland.

If we were talking about the wack jobs in NK or Iran I'd concede the point. Putin isn't that.
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Yes he is a brutal tyrant and he would not consider using a tactical nuke against Ukraine as something that would trigger a full scale nuclear war. He doesn't believe that we would respond to his limited use of nukes in Ukraine in a way that makes Chicago, LA, NY and DC glow in the dark.
 
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