Gop calls on Rep. Gonzalez to resign

bob99 said:
I am not saying Trump is guilty of collusion. I am saying none of us actual know. It was never properly investigated.
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Holy crap. We spent millions and months investigating it.

"Extensive investigation" would be the proper description.
 
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Hammerdrill said:
The whole thing was made up, sorry you fell for it.
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Show me your indisputable proof. A non bias independent documented truth. I fell for nothing. I don't walk in lock step with either party. I find it hilarious that if you don't totally agree with the Trump party line then you have to be a liberal. No independence allowed.
 
Hammerdrill said:
I assumed bob lived in a cave, but apparently he actually lives under a rock.
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I am pretty sure Hammerdrill pulls a cart and wears blinders.
horse stepping GIF by Digg
 
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bob99 said:
Hmmm:unsure: Findings by the US Senate Intelligence Republican-led Committee.

The U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee's final report on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election has concluded the Trump campaign chairman's contacts with Kremlin-linked individuals posed a "grave counterintelligence threat."

The report released on August 18, the fifth and final one from the Republican-led committee, also found that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the hacking of the Democratic Party and the leak of information to damage Hillary Clinton and her presidential campaign against then-Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.

The Senate panel called the 1,300-page report "the most comprehensive description to date of Russia's activities and the threat they posed," describing Russia as engaged in an "aggressive, multifaceted effort to influence, or attempt to influence, the outcome of the 2016 presidential election." The bipartisan investigation lasted almost 3 1/2 years.

"Moscow's intent was to harm the Clinton campaign, tarnish an expected Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and undermine the U.S. democratic process," the report states.

It also found that WikiLeaks played a key role in Russia's effort to influence the election to help Trump, and that the website "very likely knew" it was assisting a Russian influence effort, the committee’s report says.

While Russia's GRU military intelligence and Wikileaks released hacked Democratic Party documents, the report found the Trump campaign sought to use the Wikileaks hacks to aid the campaign.

"Staff on the Trump campaign sought advance notice about WikiLeaks releases, created messaging strategies to promote and share the materials in anticipation of and following their release, and encouraged further leaks," the report says.

"The Trump campaign publicly undermined the attribution of the hack-and-leak campaign to Russia and was indifferent to whether it and WikiLeaks were furthering a Russian election interference effort," according to the report.
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And this is why many of us are losing faith in the top intelligence agencies of the US. Much of what you posted has been contested or even proven wrong. Sorry but I don't accept this as evidence of anything.

And if Putin and the Russians really did help Trump then he's a complete idiot as Trump did nothing but hurt the Russians in his actions and policies. And like I said before, Putin is many things but a fool isn't one of them.
 
lotr10 said:
And this is why many of us are losing faith in the top intelligence agencies of the US. Much of what you posted has been contested or even proven wrong. Sorry but I don't accept this as evidence of anything.

And if Putin and the Russians really did help Trump then he's a complete idiot as Trump did nothing but hurt the Russians in his actions and policies. And like I said before, Putin is many things but a fool isn't one of them.
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So who do we go to that can prove what is the truth. The Right is going to believe the reports that conforms to their beliefs. Same for the left. There is no middle ground. My intent was to post articles that contradicts the noncollusion claims. I can search the web and post articles that support the non collusion claims. You tell me which ones are the actual truth. I can't.
 
bob99 said:
Show me your indisputable proof. A non bias independent documented truth. I fell for nothing. I don't walk in lock step with either party. I find it hilarious that if you don't totally agree with the Trump party line then you have to be a liberal. No independence allowed.
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While you may not "walk in lock step with either party" I don't trust either party. The democrats and much of the American beauracratic state is corrupt. Joining them are an uncomfortably large number of republicans.

The thing you and others don't get is that Trump was a reaction to the corruption of BOTH sides. Trump supporters are hardly lockstep republicans. We tend to vote republican because there are still some in the GOP who are actually on the right. Unlike the democrat party which has turned entirely to the far left.

Those that don't agree with the "Trump party line" are basically disagreeing with core conservative & populist principles. I completely get republicans who loath Trump the man. But if you can't separate Trump the man from his policies then you're a useful idiot of the left. What we republicans should never accept are the traitorous actions of people like Gonzalez & Cheney. They elevated their personal hatred of Trump to the point where they were willing to do damage to his policy pursuits. IMO that is grounds for their removal from the republican party.

It's one thing to express disapproval of Trumps behavior it's another to vote with the opposition to impeach him. The bogus Impeachment was a tool being used against Trump's policies as well as against Trump. By voting for impeachment Cheney & Gonzalez crossed a line that should never be crossed.

Removal of both these people from the party is appropriate.
 
bob99 said:
So who do we go to that can prove what is the truth. The Right is going to believe the reports that conforms to their beliefs. Same for the left. There is no middle ground. My intent was to post articles that contradicts the noncollusion claims. I can search the web and post articles that support the non collusion claims. You tell me which ones are the actual truth. I can't.
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Good question. Just another reason why the country is unraveling. When the bureaucratic state teamed up with the Obama administration and democrat party to spy on and interfere with first the Trump campaign and then the Trump transition into the White House a line was crossed.

I'm not sure it's a line that can be uncrossed.

So when the powers that be produce a report that claims the Russians helped Trump, which is very different then saying the Russians messed with our election which I believe did happen, half the country does not believe it. And why should we?

The middle ground in this country disappeared a long time ago. I don't believe it's a virtue to sit in the middle. Unfortunately IMO we've reached the time where you will have to start choosing sides. If you can't bring yourself to do that fine. But no longer will folks consider those occupying the middle as being somehow more reasonable then those at either end of the ideological spectrum.
 
lotr10 said:
We tend to vote republican because there are still some in the GOP who are actually on the right. Unlike the democrat party which has turned entirely to the far left.
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I long for the return of the true GOP. What is Liz Chaney voting record? What party nominated and ran John McCain and Mitt Romney for President? Cheney and Gonzalez are the true Republicans. Not the Trump party. I have always contended that Trump has never represented the Republican party but is the leader of a hybrid third party. The senators and representatives are elected to serve their constituents. Their constituents are the ones that should be allowed to decide whether to keep them in office or not. Not the Republican party. Not the Democrat party. Gonzalez is my representatives. I don't need someone to tell me my vote doesn't count. Where is your proof that Trump's impeachments were bogus? If the left had 67 senators and voted to convict would that had made it not bogus?
 
bob99 said:
I long for the return of the true GOP. What is Liz Chaney voting record? What party nominated and ran John McCain and Mitt Romney for President? Cheney and Gonzalez are the true Republicans. Not the Trump party. I have always contended that Trump has never represented the Republican party but is the leader of a hybrid third party. The senators and representatives are elected to serve their constituents. Their constituents are the ones that should be allowed to decide whether to keep them in office or not. Not the Republican party. Not the Democrat party. Gonzalez is my representatives. I don't need someone to tell me my vote doesn't count. Where is your proof that Trump's impeachments were bogus? If the left had 67 senators and voted to convict would that had made it not bogus?
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Trump is a true conservative. Those other people you have mentioned are Democrats lite.
 
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lotr10 said:
Good question. Just another reason why the country is unraveling. When the bureaucratic state teamed up with the Obama administration and democrat party to spy on and interfere with first the Trump campaign and then the Trump transition into the White House a line was crossed.

I'm not sure it's a line that can be uncrossed.

So when the powers that be produce a report that claims the Russians helped Trump, which is very different then saying the Russians messed with our election which I believe did happen, half the country does not believe it. And why should we?

The middle ground in this country disappeared a long time ago. I don't believe it's a virtue to sit in the middle. Unfortunately IMO we've reached the time where you will have to start choosing sides. If you can't bring yourself to do that fine. But no longer will folks consider those occupying the middle as being somehow more reasonable then those at either end of the ideological spectrum
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Once again I ask where is the undeniable proof?

Fact-check: Did Obama spy on Trump's campaign, get caught?https://www.statesman.com › elections › 2020/08/24 › f...
Hammerdrill said:
You really don't get it, despite having it explained to you numerous times. You actually think those charges mean something in the context of the investigation.
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The right think they don't. The left think they do. The independence don't know.
 
lotr10 said:
Who says Putin helped Trump in 2020? Are you sure that he did? Where did you get that information?

As for where I get my news it's not in news feeds. The typical places I get my info from are magazines like Foreign Affairs, The National Interest, Commentary, Foreign Policy Analysis, Harvard International Review, BBC, Guardian, International Security and International Affairs.

Out of curiosity can you point out which of my statements on the list that is not true? Everything I said Trump had done that hurt Russia he did. Which one do you dispute?

Even better can you point me to just one action Trump took that helped Putin & Russia?
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Intelligence community. Buuuuut anyone who says anything adverse to Trump's narrative is instantly cast as anti-Trump deep state.
 
bob99 said:
I long for the return of the true GOP. What is Liz Chaney voting record? What party nominated and ran John McCain and Mitt Romney for President? Cheney and Gonzalez are the true Republicans. Not the Trump party. I have always contended that Trump has never represented the Republican party but is the leader of a hybrid third party. The senators and representatives are elected to serve their constituents. Their constituents are the ones that should be allowed to decide whether to keep them in office or not. Not the Republican party. Not the Democrat party. Gonzalez is my representatives. I don't need someone to tell me my vote doesn't count. Where is your proof that Trump's impeachments were bogus? If the left had 67 senators and voted to convict would that had made it not bogus?
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The "true GOP" as you call it was dying. Not really conservative; definitely not populist; stuffy; dangerously NeoCon and overly concerned with what people were doing behind the doors of their bedrooms. Beholden to the Chamber of Commerce and certain big Corporate Interests. But even worse the "true GOP" was ineffective. Only when outsiders like Newt Gingrich, Ronald Reagan and yes Donald Trump came on the scene did the party show any life.

The vast majority of republicans sought change. They embraced Reagan which worked out mostly well for them. Ditto for the contract with America. But every Reagan & Gingrich was followed by a Bush & Ryan. The Tea Party was a true grass roots republican uprising that was infiltrated, neutered and corrupted by the GOP establishment.

So screw the "true GOP". Let it go the way of the Whigs Party.

As for Gonzalez he can always run as an Independent or as a Democrat.
 
bob99 said:
How many true Republicans has donated to the Clinton Foundation? Trump isn't a true Republican. Trump is a true Trump and only a Trump.
Is Donald Trump Really a Democrat or Republican?https://www.thoughtco.com › was-donald-trump-a-dem...
Donald Trump Appears to Have Donated $100,000 to the ...https://www.businessinsider.com › Politics
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The fact that Trump evolved and changed his political stripes actually gives him more credibility IMO. You know who else was a democrat that switched to being a republican? Ronald Reagan.
 
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lotr10 said:
The "true GOP" as you call it was dying. Not really conservative; definitely not populist; stuffy; dangerously NeoCon and overly concerned with what people were doing behind the doors of their bedrooms. Beholden to the Chamber of Commerce and certain big Corporate Interests. But even worse the "true GOP" was ineffective. Only when outsiders like Newt Gingrich, Ronald Reagan and yes Donald Trump came on the scene did the party show any life.

The vast majority of republicans sought change. They embraced Reagan which worked out mostly well for them. Ditto for the contract with America. But every Reagan & Gingrich was followed by a Bush & Ryan. The Tea Party was a true grass roots republican uprising that was infiltrated, neutered and corrupted by the GOP establishment.

So screw the "true GOP". Let it go the way of the Whigs Party.

As for Gonzalez he can always run as an Independent or as a Democrat.
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Trump was no Reagan.
 
Hammerdrill said:
Well, that is probably true. But for the most part he was a conservative. Being a populist is an entirely different thing, he was that too.
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I get that people love him because he is anti-establishment. I really do. He is unapologetic and crass and people were/are fed up with status quo. But Trump has to be the most self serving human I've ever seen. If this guy cared about America, and I mean truly cared, he would not be on a blog running the GOP from Mar-La-Go trying to purge every enemy from the party. It is ALWAYS about him.
 
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