EV Battery Breakthrough

C

Cubsandtigers

Well-known member
www.nytimes.com

Why China Could Dominate the Next Big Advance in Batteries

China is far ahead of the rest of the world in the development of batteries that use sodium, which are starting to compete with ubiquitous lithium power cells.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Pretty big breakthrough in battery technology by the Chinese. It will drop the price of EV’s and likely solve the twenty grand for a new battery issue. Also appears much more environmentally friendly in construction and disposal.

These batteries would also allow for much better cold weather storage. The EU will be lined up around the block to buy these things.
 
 
Cubsandtigers said:
www.nytimes.com

Why China Could Dominate the Next Big Advance in Batteries

China is far ahead of the rest of the world in the development of batteries that use sodium, which are starting to compete with ubiquitous lithium power cells.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Pretty big breakthrough in battery technology by the Chinese. It will drop the price of EV’s and likely solve the twenty grand for a new battery issue. Also appears much more environmentally friendly in construction and disposal.

These batteries would also allow for much better cold weather storage. The EU will be lined up around the block to buy these things.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it will reduce the price to MAKE EVs but probably not the sale price much...
 
Cubsandtigers said:
Potentially quite a bit.

Sodium Ion Batteries can withstand cold much better than lithium ion. That opens the door to being able to store power in areas we previously could not do so.
Click to expand...
I cannot access the article without a subscription to the NYT, so I am not sure if there is any new “breakthrough” information in it or not. But everything I have read points that NA ion tech is specifically suited for helping the grid and charging, not on board EV power packs.

MIT and Stanford each published technical papers last summer. NA ion has distinct advantages such as ease of obtaining raw materials, more stable and safe, and extremely fast energy exchange times. It’s main disadvantages were that it has about 30% less range than lithium, is heavier, and rapid charge cycles diminish its storage capacity rather quickly. And it seems that in their opinion, the disadvantages would always be there in comparison to lithium.

So, their opinion was the NA ion would be really well suited to charging stations. Use large NA ion batteries at charging stations that could be more slowly charged in off time, and since the charge would be slower, incoming power feeds would be much smaller. Then use the batteries in the peak times to DC fast charge the EVs. That would limit the large current infrastructure to basically the battery to the car.
 
Last edited:
John74 said:
I cannot access the article without a subscription to the NYT, so I am not sure if there is any new “breakthrough” information in it or not. But everything I have read points that NA ion tech is specifically suited for helping the grid and charging, not on board EV power packs.

MIT and Stanford each published technical papers last summer. NA ion has distinct advantages such as ease of obtaining raw materials, more stable and safe, and extremely fast energy exchange times. It’s main disadvantages were that it has about 30% less range than lithium, is heavier, and rapid charge cycles diminish its storage capacity rather quickly. And it seems that in their opinion, the disadvantages would always be there in comparison to lithium.

So, their opinion was the NA ion would be really well suited to charging stations. Use large NA ion batteries at charging stations that could be more slowly charged in off time, and since the charge would be slower, incoming power feeds would be much smaller. Then use the batteries in the peak times to DC fast charge the EVs. That would limit the large current infrastructure to basically the battery to the car.
Click to expand...

The Chinese automakers are moving NA batteries for EV’s to market starting in Q4 this year. They created a battery system which uses both NA and Lithium battery cells. The pack is I believe 80/20 NA to Lithium but will still drop the cost of EV batteries significantly.

I agree that NA will take over storage. I expect NA to take over shorter range and cold weather vehicles. Lithium is going to have its place in vehicles used for distance travel.
 
Will these Sodium Ion batteries replace the Lithium Ion batteries in portable electronics? The uncontrollable fire of a Li is a concern of mine when flying as they are resistant to traditional firefighting techniques.

www.nbcnews.com

Lithium-ion battery fire in cabin injures 7 and prompts flight's return to California

Four people were hospitalized after an external battery pack erupted in flames in the cabin of a United flight to New Jersey, San Diego fire officials said.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
Last edited:
Cubsandtigers said:
www.nytimes.com

Why China Could Dominate the Next Big Advance in Batteries

China is far ahead of the rest of the world in the development of batteries that use sodium, which are starting to compete with ubiquitous lithium power cells.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Pretty big breakthrough in battery technology by the Chinese. It will drop the price of EV’s and likely solve the twenty grand for a new battery issue. Also appears much more environmentally friendly in construction and disposal.

These batteries would also allow for much better cold weather storage. The EU will be lined up around the block to buy these things.
Click to expand...
don't you fell good about being relying on the chinese?
 
Wow this is wonderful news for China. And since they will build as many new coal fired power plants as needed to supply the electricity required to manufacture these battery's China is set to dominate this field for the foreseeable future.

The fetishistic love of green energy that dominates Europe & the United States will be requited by China supplying batteries produced using cheap, abundant & reliable energy from coal. Talk about having your cake and eating it to.
 
bigkat said:
don't you fell good about being relying on the chinese?
Click to expand...

I am unable to read the article but I would assume others will be able to adapt this technological breakthrough and implement it in their batteries.

I 100% love the $4 billion investment Honda is putting into the EV manufacturing site outside of Washington Courthouse - it is great jobs for Ohio. Wouldn’t you agree with this?
 
lotr10 said:
Wow this is wonderful news for China. And since they will build as many new coal fired power plants as needed to supply the electricity required to manufacture these battery's China is set to dominate this field for the foreseeable future.

The fetishistic love of green energy that dominates Europe & the United States will be requited by China supplying batteries produced using cheap, abundant & reliable energy from coal. Talk about having your cake and eating it to.
Click to expand...

oilprice.com

China Launches Asia’s Biggest Coal Carbon Capture Plant | OilPrice.com

A state-owned electricity generator in China has launched the largest coal carbon capture project in Asia.
oilprice.com oilprice.com

China is investing heavily in carbon capture technology to use at their new coal plants.


WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
I am unable to read the article but I would assume others will be able to adapt this technological breakthrough and implement it in their batteries.

I 100% love the $4 billion investment Honda is putting into the EV manufacturing site outside of Washington Courthouse - it is great jobs for Ohio. Wouldn’t you agree with this?
Click to expand...

China owns the patents for the tech. We will need to deal with them to get access to it.

It was a nice addition for sure by a proven process. I’m actually rather dubious about Intel and the scheme to make chip production work here.
 
Before we declare this a "breakthrough", I will need to read something from a source with more credibility than the NYT. We know they would never push an agenda. Lol.

If I had a dollar for every time I read a report in a non-scientific publication that ended up not quite capturing the unknowns and cons of something and exaggerating the pros, well, you know, a nice vacation or something.

Regardless, time will reveal all.

Will these new batteries help cars get up hills and mountains?
 
IVCguy said:
Before we declare this a "breakthrough", I will need to read something from a source with more credibility than the NYT. We know they would never push an agenda. Lol.

If I had a dollar for every time I read a report in a non-scientific publication that ended up not quite capturing the unknowns and cons of something and exaggerating the pros, well, you know, a nice vacation or something.

Regardless, time will reveal all.

Will these new batteries help cars get up hills and mountains?
Click to expand...

I understand one’s concern, heck Fox pushed by a false narrative and it cost them $878.5 million.

I personally look at it this way. Most recall watching Miami Vice in the 1980’s where they drove around with a loaf of bread size ‘cell phone’ that weighed 10+ pounds. 40 years later that phone is less than a pound and is also one’s personal computer, calendar, calculator, camera, tv and can do many other things that I never use it for or even know about. I’m gonna guess the battery & EC technology will progress along this line over the next decade.
 
Last edited:
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
I am unable to read the article but I would assume others will be able to adapt this technological breakthrough and implement it in their batteries.

I 100% love the $4 billion investment Honda is putting into the EV manufacturing site outside of Washington Courthouse - it is great jobs for Ohio. Wouldn’t you agree with this?
Click to expand...
but do you want to be reliant on China to sell us the raw materials for different things that the green new deal?
 
Cubsandtigers said:
oilprice.com

China Launches Asia’s Biggest Coal Carbon Capture Plant | OilPrice.com

A state-owned electricity generator in China has launched the largest coal carbon capture project in Asia.
oilprice.com oilprice.com

China is investing heavily in carbon capture technology to use at their new coal plants.




China owns the patents for the tech. We will need to deal with them to get access to it.

It was a nice addition for sure by a proven process. I’m actually rather dubious about Intel and the scheme to make chip production work here.
Click to expand...
Just do what China does, ignore their patents and copy the item.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
I understand one’s concern, heck Fox pushed by a false narrative and it cost them $878.5 million.

I personally look at it this way. Most recall watching Miami Vice in the 1980’s where they drove around with a loaf of bread size ‘cell phone’ that weighed 10+ pounds. 40 years later that phone is less than a pound and is also one’s personal computer, calendar, calculator, camera, tv and can do many other things that I never use it for or even know about. I’m gonna guess the battery & EC technology will progress along this line over the next decade.
Click to expand...
so lets wait for the next decade to happen , before we put the CART before the horse....
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
I understand one’s concern, heck Fox pushed by a false narrative and it cost the $878.5 million.

I personally look at it this way. Most recall watching Miami Vice in the 1980’s where they drive around with a loaf of bread size ‘cell phone’ that weighed 10+ pounds. 40 years later that phone is less than a pound and is also one’s personal computer, calendar, calculator, camera, tv and can do many other things that I never use it for or even know about. I’m gonna guess the battery & EC technology will progress along this line over the next decade.
Click to expand...
Oh, they will get there - and probably sooner than I or anyone would expect.

I had to search hard, but researchers at Cornell discovered a flaw in the chemical reaction of the Na batteries that was limiting its recharge. That was last year, so my suspicion is that there are other kinks and limitations involved.
 
bigkat said:
so lets wait for the next decade to happen , before we put the CART before the horse....
Click to expand...

So your solution is to be late to market or be a decade behind the curve. Does this way of thinking also include the US military maybe not trying to develop a 5th Generation Fighter jet because it may not work or it will cost too much? Why build anymore Ford class aircraft carriers since the first one has had so many delays and is way, way, way over budget. Why worry about going to the moon, let China so it and then we can see if it’s worthwhile to do so.

Proceed with realistic caution, I understand but proceed we should and will. And we will proceed with EV manufacturing jobs in Ohio.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
So your solution is to be late to market or be a decade behind the curve. Does this way of thinking also include the US military maybe not trying to develop a 5th Generation Fighter jet because it may not work or it will cost too much? Why build anymore Ford class aircraft carriers since the first one has had so many delays and is way, way, way over budget. Why worry about going to the moon, let China so it and then we can see if it’s worthwhile to do so.

Proceed with realistic caution, I understand but proceed we should and will. And we will proceed with EV manufacturing jobs in Ohio.
Click to expand...
well how about Biden not messing with the OIL and not try to cut it off!!! America is NOT ready for that.... and then how about not letting the TWO developing NATIONS in China and India... get all type of breaks , so it puts America at a disadvantage...... you good with that?
 
bigkat said:
well how about Biden not messing with the OIL and not try to cut it off!!! America is NOT ready for that.... and then how about not letting the TWO developing NATIONS in China and India... get all type of breaks , so it puts America at a disadvantage...... you good with that?
Click to expand...

The US is producing more oil now and drilling oil permits (especially on Federal land) are up. What examples of “all type of breaks” is US/Biden giving China & India? Would giving the Chinese the EV developing/growing market be considered putting Americans at a disadvantage? You want to wait a decade, isn’t that giving the Chinese an 10 year advantage?

You want to make EV’s political, it’s not - it’s about $$$ and jobs, jobs in Ohio. The EV market is exploding, either accept it, get on board or get out of the way. I have zero intention of getting a EV vehicle anything soon but I love what this market is going to provide for Ohio.

I’m that way with Twitter, Facebook, Instagram - I’m not on any of that crap. I think there should be some regulation but to try & prevent it - that would be stupidity on my part. It’s the way of today & future generations. I don’t need or want it, but it’s best I understand it to regulate it for my kids use.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top