Eric Finan

[Lancermania]

Eric Finan gained "All America" status by finishing 25 at the NCAA DI Finals on Monday. He broke 30:00 for the first time in cross country (29:54.6), yet he claims the course was slow with this comment, "On and off rain and a misty course helped to slow runners’ times down as the gravel and ground became soft." Was anyone at this meet to see what the course was like?

Finan passed three runners at the finish and the last one he passed was the Scottish runner from Butler who beat him at the Great Lakes Regional. He claims that he developed his kick at UC which he never had at New Richmond. Here is his comment, “In high school, I never seemed to have a strong finish,” When I came to UC, I developed a strong kick. It was good to be able to rely on my kick today.” What do you guys think about the comment you can develop a kick where previously you didn't have one?

The News Record claims that Finan is the first Bearcat to make "All America" status in cross country in 40 years. Don Wahle told me that wasn't true. He claimed that Chris Reis was an All American at UC in cross country. I found out that Reis qualified to the finals three straight years but never finished in the top 100 at the finals. Can anyone else dispute the claim that Ron Stapleton was the last Bearcat to be an All American in cross country way back in 1972?

 

[lane4]

Finan comes back with just 2+ days of recovery and wins the Thanksgiving Day Race in 30:05. That's pretty strong.

Thanksgiving top 5

1. Eric Finan 30:05
2. Thomas Kauffmann, Jr. 30:40
3. Christopher Reis 30:51
4. Clinton Cahall 31:07
5. Derrick Butler 31:36

 

[Lancermania]

Finan also won last year, so he's a repeat champ. What I find interesting is that when he was a senior at New Richmond, he was 4th at the DII state meet. One of the guys who beat him at state finished over 200th Monday at the NCAA final. It may be that 5k is not a true indication of who will excell at 10k. There are also those who say that track events like the 1600/3200 in high school aren't reliable predictors of 5k excellence in high school cross country.

 

[Rohbino]

What do you guys think about the comment you can develop a kick where previously you didn't have one?

Sure; why not? Males, in particular, mature pretty late some times. Different training, gaining strength, maturation..... All of these could be factors in developing a kick later in life.

Finan also won last year, so he's a repeat champ. What I find interesting is that when he was a senior at New Richmond, he was 4th at the DII state meet. One of the guys who beat him at state finished over 200th Monday at the NCAA final. It may be that 5k is not a true indication of who will excell at 10k. There are also those who say that track events like the 1600/3200 in high school aren't reliable predictors of 5k excellence in high school cross country.

Again, this could point to later maturation and seems perfectly logical. How many of us knew guys when growing up that had entered into puberty in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade and were totally dominant in a sport only to be surpassed by someone that is either a late bloomer of enters into puberty at a normal age? (for boys this seems to be about 15 or 16) Baseball, football, and basketball seem to be where this dominance is most prevalent yet it happens in XC & track and field as well. It really doesn't seem all that unusual to me.

 

[madman]

It depends on what you mean by "kick", but if you simply mean a change to a significantly faster pace at the finish of a race, then having a great kick is more about mindset than anything else. If you mean being able to finish faster than anyone else at the end of a race then having a kick is primarily a function of genetics.

I assume we're not interest about genetics...

To kick at the end of a race you have to have both the desire and the belief in yourself to kick when you're really tired. You see this all the time in the last 40 meters of kids in a race - it seems like they're running really hard until someone comes up on them and they find another gear for the last little bit to hold their competitor off. With more confidence and experience, they find that gear sooner. However, if they develop the habit of going out too hard and dying (essentially quitting), it's hard to create the mindset necessary to kick off a hard pace.

You can help create the proper mindset through your training. Negative split everything - last reps faster than initial reps, 2nd half of each rep faster than the first half, and finish the last rep as hard as possible. Don't go through the motions with "striders" - instead do 150m accelerations where you're making significant pace changes off fast paces every 50m - think 800m-400m-200 pace for each 50m.

For the longer races having a kick is often about having a bigger aerobic engine. If you're going to the well in the middle of the race to stay with the leaders, you're unlikely to have a kick. I've seen too many slow-of-foot guys that have dropped from 4:40 to 4:20 by hard aerobic work. When they don't die after hitting the 1200m mark in 3:15 it looks like they have a great kick when in fact they just got really strong. See video of Dave Wottle for evidence of this in the 800m as well. Currently, it looks like Robby Andrews has a great kick at the end of his 800, but when you look at his splits they are often even - it just looks like he has a massive kick because everyone else is running 50-56 to get to 1:46 while he's running 53-53.

Bekele is known for his tremendous kick in the 5000 and 10000 when he finishes in 51-52 seconds for the last 400m, but that's about 13 seconds per hundred - hardly competitive even among high school freshmen. You don't have to have blazing sprint speed to have a great kick. You need to be able to use the speed you do have and that's primarily a mental issue with strength as a strong second.

 

[panott]

It depends on what you mean by "kick", but if you simply mean a change to a significantly faster pace at the finish of a race, then having a great kick is more about mindset than anything else. If you mean being able to finish faster than anyone else at the end of a race then having a kick is primarily a function of genetics.

I assume we're not interest about genetics...

To kick at the end of a race you have to have both the desire and the belief in yourself to kick when you're really tired. You see this all the time in the last 40 meters of kids in a race - it seems like they're running really hard until someone comes up on them and they find another gear for the last little bit to hold their competitor off. With more confidence and experience, they find that gear sooner. However, if they develop the habit of going out too hard and dying (essentially quitting), it's hard to create the mindset necessary to kick off a hard pace.

You can help create the proper mindset through your training. Negative split everything - last reps faster than initial reps, 2nd half of each rep faster than the first half, and finish the last rep as hard as possible. Don't go through the motions with "striders" - instead do 150m accelerations where you're making significant pace changes off fast paces every 50m - think 800m-400m-200 pace for each 50m.

For the longer races having a kick is often about having a bigger aerobic engine. If you're going to the well in the middle of the race to stay with the leaders, you're unlikely to have a kick. I've seen too many slow-of-foot guys that have dropped from 4:40 to 4:20 by hard aerobic work. When they don't die after hitting the 1200m mark in 3:15 it looks like they have a great kick when in fact they just got really strong. See video of Dave Wottle for evidence of this in the 800m as well. Currently, it looks like Robby Andrews has a great kick at the end of his 800, but when you look at his splits they are often even - it just looks like he has a massive kick because everyone else is running 50-56 to get to 1:46 while he's running 53-53.

Bekele is known for his tremendous kick in the 5000 and 10000 when he finishes in 51-52 seconds for the last 400m, but that's about 13 seconds per hundred - hardly competitive even among high school freshmen. You don't have to have blazing sprint speed to have a great kick. You need to be able to use the speed you do have and that's primarily a mental issue with strength as a strong second.

Well put !

 

[TheRunningMan]

Eric Finan gained "All America" status by finishing 25 at the NCAA DI Finals on Monday. He broke 30:00 for the first time in cross country (29:54.6), yet he claims the course was slow with this comment, "On and off rain and a misty course helped to slow runners’ times down as the gravel and ground became soft." Was anyone at this meet to see what the course was like?

Finan passed three runners at the finish and the last one he passed was the Scottish runner from Butler who beat him at the Great Lakes Regional. He claims that he developed his kick at UC which he never had at New Richmond. Here is his comment, “In high school, I never seemed to have a strong finish,” When I came to UC, I developed a strong kick. It was good to be able to rely on my kick today.” What do you guys think about the comment you can develop a kick where previously you didn't have one?

The News Record claims that Finan is the first Bearcat to make "All America" status in cross country in 40 years. Don Wahle told me that wasn't true. He claimed that Chris Reis was an All American at UC in cross country. I found out that Reis qualified to the finals three straight years but never finished in the top 100 at the finals. Can anyone else dispute the claim that Ron Stapleton was the last Bearcat to be an All American in cross country way back in 1972?

First, all-american is top 40. Finan is just a workhorse though. He has done this through consistently running 90-100 mile weeks. He's gotten here through steady work. What a great example.

 

[Lancermania]

First, all-american is top 40. Finan is just a workhorse though. He has done this through consistently running 90-100 mile weeks. He's gotten here through steady work. What a great example.

So, if Finan finishes 25th, isn't that in the top 40? All I did was state his place and say he was an All American. I guess it was not clear because I didn't put the "th" after the 25 to indicate that was his actual place and thus it may indicate that because he was in the top 25 he got All American status thereby implying that it's limited to the top 25.

 

[Mr. Slippery]

Finan also won last year, so he's a repeat champ. What I find interesting is that when he was a senior at New Richmond, he was 4th at the DII state meet. One of the guys who beat him at state finished over 200th Monday at the NCAA final. It may be that 5k is not a true indication of who will excell at 10k. There are also those who say that track events like the 1600/3200 in high school aren't reliable predictors of 5k excellence in high school cross country.

It may just be that predicting how a kid's HS performances will carry over to collegiate running is an inexact science much the same as trying to determine which college athletes will excel at the professional level of their respective sports.

It's difficult to know who's going to keep working hard at the collegiate level, who's not going to get burned out on the more demanding training schedule, who still hasn't come close to maxing out their potential in HS, or who is not going to succumb to the academic rigors of college, etc, etc.

 

[PantherVOR]

So, if Finan finishes 25th, isn't that in the top 40? All I did was state his place and say he was an All American. I guess it was not clear because I didn't put the "th" after the 25 to indicate that was his actual place and thus it may indicate that because he was in the top 25 he got All American status thereby implying that it's limited to the top 25.

I believe therunningman was probably referring to this portion of your post where you seem to be saying if Reis had finished in the top 100 he would have been an All American.......................

He claimed that Chris Reis was an All American at UC in cross country. I found out that Reis qualified to the finals three straight years but never finished in the top 100 at the finals.

By the way, I had Finan in my sites yesterday but he lost me in the last 6.1 miles.

 

[nworunner]

So, if Finan finishes 25th, isn't that in the top 40? All I did was state his place and say he was an All American. I guess it was not clear because I didn't put the "th" after the 25 to indicate that was his actual place and thus it may indicate that because he was in the top 25 he got All American status thereby implying that it's limited to the top 25.

Yeah actually, that wasn't clear. You just through out an arbitrary range (top 25).

 

[whizzel]

Here is his comment, “In high school, I never seemed to have a strong finish,” When I came to UC, I developed a strong kick. It was good to be able to rely on my kick today.” What do you guys think about the comment you can develop a kick where previously you didn't have one?


Eric was a very good runner in high school, sub 4:20 for 1600 meters. But at UC under Coach Schnier he has gotten even better. His training log on Running2Win is evidence that he has gotten much stronger (aerobically). This might explain his "new" strong kick at the end of races.